Cramp

Kurt Godel

Specifically, calf cramps during longer OW swims... but in general, what do people do that has helped prevent cramp during races?

catweazle

Seems to work for me, a physio told me to take a swig or two of Indian Tonic water an hour or two before a race that has quinine in it.

1. Muscle relaxant Quinine can ease the severity of nocturnal leg cramps. It can also help alleviate lower back and leg pain.
2. Anti-inflammatory This natural herb can help with issues like arthritis. For patients with extreme arthritis, tonic water can be helpful in achieving partial use of affected limbs.
3. Shivering Quinine was used by the Quechua Indians to fight the effects of cold temperatures. It was because of this that they refined it into tonic water by mixing it with sweet water.

TRR

Tonic water also recommended to my wife by her consultant when she was pregnant and suffering from (non-sport related ) cramps. Have tried it myself and seems to have a positive effect, I take it before going to bed as I was getting cramps while sleeping.

sconhome

catweazle wrote: »

Seems to work for me, a physio told me to take a swig or two of Indian Tonic water an hour or two before a race that has quinine in it.

A drop of gin with that is great for the pre-race nerves

Krusty_Clown

Would it be worth trying Dioralyte? I know some of the AR guys use them for particularly long events, but given that the chief ingredients are:
glucose, sodium chloride, potassium chloride and disodium hydrogen citrate, nearly all of which are used as treatment for cramps, it would suggest that taking a sachet before something like a 5k swim might help prevent the onset of cramps. I took a sachet before a (non-swim) race yesterday, and while I'll never know if it helped to avoid cramps, it helped to alleviate some stomach issues and didn't cause any side effects.

RacoonQueen

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Would it be worth trying Dioralyte? I know some of the AR guys use them for particularly long events, but given that the chief ingredients are:
glucose, sodium chloride, potassium chloride and disodium hydrogen citrate, nearly all of which are used as treatment for cramps, it would suggest that taking a sachet before something like a 5k swim might help prevent the onset of cramps. I took a sachet before a (non-swim) race yesterday, and while I'll never know if it helped to avoid cramps, it helped to alleviate some stomach issues and didn't cause any side effects.

I was thinking of trying that before a tri to see if it helped prevent shoe change causing cramps. Based on the idea cramps can be caused by elecrolyte imbalance etc

Amz

TRR wrote: »

Tonic water also recommended to my wife by her consultant when she was pregnant and suffering from (non-sport related ) cramps. Have tried it myself and seems to have a positive effect, I take it before going to bed as I was getting cramps while sleeping.

Good to know.

Got really bad calf cramp in my last tri, about 5km into the cycle. Really buggered up the race for me.

MrCreosote

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I was thinking of trying that before a tri to see if it helped prevent shoe change causing cramps. Based on the idea cramps can be caused by elecrolyte imbalance etc

Cramps usually aren't caused by electrolyte imbalances though.

RacoonQueen

MrCreosote wrote: »

Cramps usually aren't caused by electrolyte imbalances though.

But they can be which is why people use dioralyte afterwards to help redress the balance.

nerraw1111

I've used Diarolyte a fair few times and it works for me. (running/cycling) Ever since I started taking it, I've never had a serious cramp.

Definitely worth trying given a sachet is about 50 cents.

From what I read, the causes of cramps are still poorly understood?

MrCreosote

RacoonQueen wrote: »

But they can be which is why people use dioralyte afterwards to help redress the balance.

Vanishingly rarely. Not saying not to try the dioralyte, but if it works it's probably not the electrolytes. Personally I can't stand the taste!

Quinine not recommended anymore either by the way.

I still get cramps, much less than before, mainly after heavier training, or in an event.

Kurt Godel

Thanks for the responses so far. I'll be trying tonic water, and Dioralyte, and hoping to replicate the personal benefits others have gained.

MrCreosote wrote: »

Vanishingly rarely. Not saying not to try the dioralyte, but if it works it's probably not the electrolytes. Personally I can't stand the taste!

Quinine not recommended anymore either by the way.

I still get cramps, much less than before, mainly after heavier training, or in an event.

Here's a report on four scientific studies which would appear to back up your view. Marathon focussed study groups in the main, but applicable to endurance cramping.

Conclusion wrote:

The bottom line is that what causes marathon cramps probably is not the sweating, but rather the running! The cure is probably not salt supplements, but changing our training
and racing strategies to reduce leg fatigue during those the last 6 miles.

Peterx

Ahh yes but that conclusion is rather more difficult to achieve than necking a 40c sachet of dioralyte.
Analysing, tweaking, implementing new training and getting it all right = very difficult.

Dioralyte works perfectly to kill oncoming cramp when taken during a multisport event- I'm unsure as to how good it is when taken before the event - and taking it during the swim is probably not a runner:p

RacoonQueen

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Thanks for the responses so far. I'll be trying tonic water, and Dioralyte, and hoping to replicate the personal benefits others have gained.



Here's a report on four scientific studies which would appear to back up your view. Marathon focussed study groups in the main, but applicable to endurance cramping.

There is no real known cause, I would suspect that a couple of different things come in to play. Many people would say their calf cramps in longer races come from the racing flats, salt tablets work for some to get rid of or prevent cramping. Larry Brent made an interesting post on elecrolyte replacement over on the mother forum - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80662215&postcount=23

RedB

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Larry Brent made an interesting post on elecrolyte replacement over on the mother forum - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80662215&postcount=23

The mother forum..........:D

We rarely visit, we seldom call, :rolleyes:

Ahhhhhhh mom, we're all growed up now :pac:

ThisRegard

Peterx wrote: »

Dioralyte works perfectly to kill oncoming cramp when taken during a multisport event

I've never had cramp when running any distance. I've never had it when cycling any distance.

The only time I've had it is during a multisport event within a few minutes of getting on a bike after a run and diorlyte seems to do the trick for me. It got to the point where I'd have 2 bidons on the bike, one with a regular drink and the other with a mix of diorlyte and I'd neck a load of it as soon as I got to the bike.

I'd still might get a touch of it but nothing that couldn't be stretched out while on the bike.

longshank

"PMM also self-experimented with

hyperventilation for bilateral quadriceps cramping during

exercise at mile 67 of a 100-mile mountainous bicycle ride

and experienced complete resolution within 3 minutes

without recurrence during the remaining 33 miles of the

ride. The finding of 100% efficacy and no side effects in

this small series of cases warrants continued study of the

clinical safety and efficacy and mechanism of action of

hyperventilation as a simple, self-administered, cost-free

treatment for EAMC and for other clinical conditions in

which severe skeletal muscle cramping occurs."

Extract from a recent report.....interesting?

pgibbo

This may or may not be useful

El Director

O god cramps! I would love to just ignore them but the only thing that will ensure is that I will not succeed.

I typically experience them in my hamstrings either while swimming, with a big swell (when my foot is out of the water and bends too much at the knee) or when on the bike while reaching down to get my foot in the shoe. So early in the day I can start cramping.

That article P Gibbo is interesting. It suggests that I might need to do more brick sessions of the swim/run variety.

I used to get calf cramps coming out of the water but I now stretch them properly and in the last 100m or so I kick a big harder. Actually I believe when warmed up properly and include bum flicks (for the hamstrings) I, from what I recall, did not cramp.

Anyway (loads) more about cramping in my Blacksod tri report coming soon
I'd like to hear Mr. MCOS's thoughts on this although I know it's a painful topic

shotgunmcos

I've read loads about cramp because they have plagued me since I took up tri. It has just become more profound at long distance.

The literature basically says there is no specifically defined cause of cramp and its even more vague on how to cure. The stitch has baffled scientists but at least they can point to some likely candidates for leg cramps

The common ones for triathletes and I've experienced most. (I'm the kind of person that cramps randomly at night in my sleep!)

Calf cramps after the swim. Pretty much kicking to hard and then running on your toes (note how you don't naturally heel strike out of the water!!) on tarmac/sand/grass etc.. You have just shocked the calves into action and the muscle can struggle to adapt. Can happen towards the end of pool sets too from kicking incorrectly from the knee and pushing hard off the wall with your toes repeatedly. I find the calf cramps are painful but short lived.

I have rarely experience hip or hamstrings cramping so no real input to those.

Quad cramps are my enemy. I've tackled various assumptions and applied solutions

Hydration - dehydration is a typical candidate. I noticed I was more likely to cramp on warmer days if I wasn't drinking enough. I've learned Hydration starts a couple of days before the race.

Electrolytes - I've never been a fan of supplementation. I rarely buy jar sauces etc... I used to just put extra salt on dishes in the days before a race. However there are more electrolytes than just sodium. You need potassium and magnesium for various energy pathways that balance muscle contraction and relaxation, ATP release etc.. Basically stuff you need more of during endurance events. I've since started using electrolytes to rule out electrolyte imbalance. Water follows salt. Its bad enough to not drink enough water but probably worse to drink too much of it when its salt you body wants. You get the double whammy of flushing out what little you have left and keep chasing with more water which can be bad news. There is heaps of reading around this. I generally listen to my better half and her medical background to test the validity of what various articles/blogs claim.

Effort - Pushing too hard on the bike/run. If you haven't done the training and start going nuts on the bike section thats just silly and you legs will let you know. Commonly pushing too hard on the bike and then trying to run hard off it can just overload the quads and hamstrings and boom, cramps occur to make you stop and allow the lactic acid to settle. I've gone so far as to purposely smash myself on the bike in training to bring out the cramps on the run. A bit sadistic but I wanted to understand them. I experimented similarly with too little water and/or no electrolytes for long sessions. I remember cramping on both quads badly in the second run of my very first duathlon. I know now its because I flaked the bike an then attempted to flake up a hill on foot afterwards!

So with a lot of that on board, in the last IM I hydrated sufficiently, took electrolytes on the bike and run. Took all nutrition and regulated the effort on the bike. Both quads still locked and created yet another painful experience. Go figure!?

One thing I have not yet considered properly is general strength and conditioning. I intend to put a strict focus on specific strength, conditioning, flexibility and recovery over the next 6 months to see if that makes any difference... I believe the key is in there. I have to, because if it isn't I'm taking up snooker or something!