Stan Lee's Superhumans - Dean Karnazes

Satanta

I'm not sure if this was posted before or if anyone seen this on DMAX last night, but they were looking at Dean Karnazes to see what makes him such a good endurance athelete. Very interesting results when tested for lactate analysis. He doesnt have a LT. His body actually flushes lactate as quickly as he produces it an all t he intensities he was tested at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTaLxY6iulQ

Enduro

He's no superhuman. He's not even a particularly good runner. There are several people on this site who are better runners than Dean Karnazes. Look at his record. How many (real) world records has he set? how many races has he won where he actually competed against genuinely good runners. One of the worlds genuinely brilliant ultrarunners, Yiannis Kouros, has a long standing invitation to race Dean over a course and distance of Dean's choosing. After many many years Dean has yet to accept the challenge.

The last time Dean entered a world championship event, the world 24 hour champs in South Korea a few years ago, if you count all the females as part of the results then he came 2nd last.

Dean Karnazes is world class at one thing, and that's self publicity.

TRR

Enduro wrote: »

Dean Karnazes is world class at one thing, and that's self publicity.

Big time, his book is a good read but in terms of real performance he is very ordinary. Has great Abs so he makes all the GQ type and men's health magazines.

average_runner

Dont think he ever claimed to be the best, not in anything i read anyhow. He has won Vermont 100 trail and a few others. But there is always some one better out there. His endurance is impressive too and i am sure there are others out there too.

shels4ever

If Stan Lee says its true it must be just like Spiderman etc.

average_runner

Funny video though, superhuman!! The guy that can bend thinks he is super human :rolleyes:

Satanta

average_runner wrote: »

Funny video though, superhuman!! The guy that can bend thinks he is super human :rolleyes:

And you are saying he is average human?

Pherekydes

Satanta wrote: »

And you are saying he is average human?

Not being superhuman doesn't make you average.

Satanta

To start with I am not a fan of this Dean Karnazes guy. I neverreally heard tell of him to be honest.

Enduro wrote: »

He's no superhuman. He's not even a particularly good runner. There are several people on this site who are better runners than Dean Karnazes.

I'd consider anyone who can run for 80 hours straight to have amazing endurance. Whatever about race results. I find it interesting the reason for that, as stated in the video is that he flushes lactates out of his system as quickly as they are produced. How many people have that kind of physiology (if that's the right word)?

Pherekydes wrote: »

Not being superhuman doesn't make you average.

So how many people do you know that can bend like the rubber guy? How many people do you think dont have a lactate threshold? You wouldnt consider what they can do exceeds the limits of 99.99% of the population?

Enduro

Satanta wrote: »

I'd consider anyone who can run for 80 hours straight to have amazing endurance. Whatever about race results. I find it interesting the reason for that, as stated in the video is that he flushes lactates out of his system as quickly as they are produced. How many people have that kind of physiology (if that's the right word)?

I've just come back from a race where about 250 people raced for between 5 and 7 days straight. None of these people would have an ego the size of Dean's telling them they're some sort of superhuman. There's actually nothing particularly amazing about running for 80 hours straight. There are thousands and thousands of people who have done it. Doing it a world record speed would be much more impressive. And that's where you need to look at the real athletes like Yiannis Kouros, rather than the ordinary plodders like Karnazes. If you wanted to find out the physiology of a true ultrarunning legend, then it's Kouros who should be examined.

80 hours isn't a prticularly meaningful statistic either. If someone takes 80 hours straight to run a marathon it wouldn't exactly indicate that they're superhuman

As for how many people have that kind of phsiology... who knows? how many have been tested? What I can tell you is that there are a vast swathe of runners out there who are better runners than Dean Karnazes. One would guess that their physiology is at least as interesting!

rom

I will have to bin my Dean Karnazes insoles after hearing all this

sconhome

Enduro wrote: »

There's actually nothing particularly amazing about running for 80 hours straight. There are thousands and thousands of people who have done it.

Dont know about you but I think anyone who can spend 80 hours straight standing up, never mind running, is pretty amazing. Out of the billions of people on earth a few thousand being capable of running for 80 hours is fairly above average.

ultraman1

TRR wrote: »

Big time, his book is a good read but in terms of real performance he is very ordinary. Has great Abs so he makes all the GQ type and men's health magazines.

if he had ur looks he'd be on playgirl:D

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Funny video though, superhuman!! The guy that can bend thinks he is super human :rolleyes:

so because some on can bend like that he is super human?

I am a dean karanes fan but he isn't super human either.

menoscemo

amphkingwest wrote: »

Dont know about you but I think anyone who can spend 80 hours straight standing up, never mind running, is pretty amazing. Out of the billions of people on earth a few thousand being capable of running for 80 hours is fairly above average.

It said he ran 10 marathons back to back in that time. That's an average of 8hrs per marathon. I seriously doubt he was running, or indeed standing up for the full 80 hours.

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

amphkingwest wrote: »

Dont know about you but I think anyone who can spend 80 hours straight standing up, never mind running, is pretty amazing. Out of the billions of people on earth a few thousand being capable of running for 80 hours is fairly above average.

It said he ran 10 marathons back to back in that time. That's an average of 8hrs per marathon. I seriously doubt he was running, or indeed standing up for the full 80 hours.

Jesus I'd give that a go. You could have time for sleeps and still do a fair amount of walking.

menoscemo

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Jesus I'd give that a go. You could have time for sleeps and still do a fair amount of walking.

If only you had his abs Frank, you'd be as superhuman as Dean

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Jesus I'd give that a go. You could have time for sleeps and still do a fair amount of walking.

If only you had his abs Frank, you'd be as superhuman as Dean

I have, they are under fat though:-)

average_runner

Oisin11178 wrote: »

menoscemo wrote: »

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Jesus I'd give that a go. You could have time for sleeps and still do a fair amount of walking.

If only you had his abs Frank, you'd be as superhuman as Dean

I have, they are under fat though:-)

You just don't want to show them off.

eliwallach

I'm getting the distinct impression that the bauld Dean may once have pissed in Enduro's corn flakes ;)

ultraman1

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Jesus I'd give that a go..

standing up while u sleep?.....sure you practice dat at work:P.,,,,,,,

Enduro

eliwallach wrote: »

I'm getting the distinct impression that the bauld Dean may once have pissed in Enduro's corn flakes ;)

Never met the man in my life. Just have a dislike for spoofers and egomaniacs. It's the American ultrarunners who suffer most. There are some world class ultrarunners in America, but they're practically unknown in their own country in contrast to Mr "Abs and body oil", who has fooled large numbers of people into thinking that he's some kind of super human.

jeffontour

I am in the Enduro camp on this one, he’s a better self-publicist than runner! But I heard him interviewed in this podcast recently(Episode 18),and he came across better than I expected. His new diet seems almost as mad as Enduro’s juice fetish.

To counter the idea that all American ultra runners are self indulgent ^rse holes this piece, by young American ultra runner Dakota Jones is refreshing.

TRR

Anybody who has ever done a lactate threshold test should be able to spot the major experimental flaws in the video clip they showed, namely they were taking him off the treadmill to measure lactic levels, to do the test properly you keep running, no wonder he was able to "clear lactate". There may have been no consistency in his tradmill breaks so isn't surprising to see fluctuating lactic levels

I've done LT tests on numerous occasions and what you see is a very very slow increase in lactic acid until you hit a certain point (i.e your threshold) where it sky rockets up. To say he has no LT means he could run at his top speed indefinitely if properly fueled which obviously isn't the case. That really would be superhuman and he'd be a multi Olympic champion

I guess this program shouldn't be taken that seriously but auld Deano gets on my nerves.

sconhome

jeffontour wrote: »

young American ultra runner Dakota Fanning is refreshing.

The actress? or a freudian typo?

jeffontour

amphkingwest wrote: »

The actress? or a freudian typo?

Hah, well spotted! As I was writing that I thought something didn't sound right.

MrCreosote

TRR wrote: »

I've done LT tests on numerous occasions and what you see is a very very slow increase in lactic acid until you hit a certain point (i.e your threshold) where it sky rockets up. To say he has no LT means he could run at his top speed indefinitely if properly fueled which obviously isn't the case. That really would be superhuman and he'd be a multi Olympic champion
.

Maybe his top speed is limited by some other factor so he remains below and never reaches his LT. If he's not producing enough lactate at the speeds they're testing, he'll always "clear the lactate". So maybe he's not superhuman after all, just (relatively) incapable of running fast.

ecoli

MrCreosote wrote: »

Maybe his top speed is limited by some other factor so he remains below and never reaches his LT. If he's not producing enough lactate at the speeds they're testing, he'll always "clear the lactate". So maybe he's not superhuman after all, just (relatively) incapable of running fast.

Was waiting till someone spotted some of the points in the testing proceedure mainly stopped to take bloods and also going on his "percieved effort". From that video they seem to base the pace increases on his word which can then be easily manipulated by him to enhance his own reputation.

Would agree with the self publicist angle. If Cavan Cola had him on board they would be bigger than Coca Cola at this stage:D

Hard Worker

I know Deano personally. He's a great guy with a beautiful family. Certainly down to earth and doesn't have an ego that I'm aware of. He never had much speed and indeed, he was in awe of my meagre marathon pb.
This post is just about as off topic as most of them on this thread.

TRR

MrCreosote wrote: »

Maybe his top speed is limited by some other factor so he remains below and never reaches his LT. If he's not producing enough lactate at the speeds they're testing, he'll always "clear the lactate". So maybe he's not superhuman after all, just (relatively) incapable of running fast.

To hit his threshold all they would have had to do was get him to sprint for a minute or two. You're right though the speeds they had him running at obviously weren't quick enough to hit his threshold.

TFBubendorfer

jeffontour wrote: »

I am in the Enduro camp on this one, he’s a better self-publicist than runner! But I heard him interviewed in this podcast recently(Episode 18),and he came across better than I expected.

Same here. I could never stand the guy, his books are so full of exaggerations and downright nonsense, it is beyond belief. But he came across very well in more recent interviews, and he also admitted that he was shouting off his mouth in earlier years ("I never expected anyone to take much notice" or words to that effect).

nerraw1111

Not sure where I stand on Karnazes.

On one hand, you have Scott Jurek in 2007 saying this about him:

It's good we get attention for the sport, but sometimes I wonder what kind of attention is good for the sport. At times I think that some of the Dean attention can hurt athletes like myself and other individuals performing well. There are athletes like us doing all kinds of amazing things and somebody else is walking around and actually accepting these titles and awards. You wouldn't see that in any other sport. I can't think of a sport where this happens - maybe once in a while somebody a bit lower on the elite status might pop up there for doing something extraordinary.

I'm not saying it should be about me, there are runners like Nikki Kimball and Karl Meltzer, there are different distances, and those people deserve their shots too. This is a prime example of how a lot of media is working in this country these days, grabbing onto somebody who has a great publicity machine, great sponsors and media outlets. I would rather earn my titles and the recognition I deserve out on the race course.

Full quotes here: http://www.atrailrunnersblog.com/2007/07/what-scott-jurek-really-thinks-about.html

But then you have Karnazes say this, in response to criticism on Let'sRun.

I do not claim to be the best in the world. If it comes off that way, it is the media's work. Just as Paris Hilton makes headlines and is compared to the liberation of Paris after WWII, I will make headlines being called the best runner on the face of the earth. Still, if it sells papers and products ultimately making me money, I can't fight it. Disagreeing with my sponsors will land me without a paycheck, and the opportunities I have on a daily basis to make a living doing what I love.

I am not the fastest runner over every distance, and arguably even any distance. I don't pretend to be. I am an ultramarathoner and love pushing my body to the absolute limit. My accomplishments tend to be played down on this site because I am not the best in the world, but regardless I am making an impact raising money for charity and at least exposing people to the sport.

If I am able to inspire people to take up ultramarathoning, they will eventually realize that there is more than one star in the sport. They will learn the names Scott Jurek, Pam Reed, and Yanni Kuoros and appreciate their accomplishments. If I can get these people to get out there and get active, to even run 2 miles a day, I feel that my running is having a positive effect on the world

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2006294&page=1#ixzz27lAkv000

I can see both sides. DK is making a living from it and fair play. Jurek at al are right to be annoyed when they are overlooked or at worst, ignored. You can lay some blame at DK's door for that.

I think it's less of an issue now given the growth in ultra running and the coverage given to the top men and women.

ThisRegard

This is on again now, or at 11pm on DMAX+1 for anyone that wants to catch it instead of the end of Tubs.

eliwallach

Full of American hyperbole and, well, ****. They gotta make a programme. Don't be so hard on Dean......:p

Seanie_H

Enduro wrote: »

Never met the man in my life. Just have a dislike for spoofers and egomaniacs. It's the American ultrarunners who suffer most. There are some world class ultrarunners in America, but they're practically unknown in their own country in contrast to Mr "Abs and body oil", who has fooled large numbers of people into thinking that he's some kind of super human.

Hate the game and not the player then!

What makes an account of somebody's achievements who isn't the best runner in the world a spoof? Or makes him an egomaniac?

When you do things in life that are above the average, it inspires people. Seems that your source of inspiration has a higher standard but it seems wrong to knock him from that.

If anything, in my opinion I think it would make it all the more special to be top of the pile and have a big mouth swanning around. I'd get a lot of satisfaction from that.... maybe others would be annoyed.