Massive unrest now in Europe / Spain

JCabot

I don't have a television so my main news comes from internet but certaintly I am not seeing much coverage of the unrest in europe. Finding headlines like "Massive Protest Erupts in Spain! Sep, 25, 2012" and "Citizens have surrounded the Congress building in Madrid and are demanding immediate resignation of the Government"

Where is RTEs coverage or Breakingnews.ie coveragw of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj0ZR51ONjw

seanmacc

Ever since the Thatcher era in Britain many media (particularly state media) show very little footage of rioting and protest that turns violent. The reason being is that they believe that it encourages more people to go out and join them. They will always give more air time (like in the London riots) to random people commenting on how disgraceful the carry on was by the rioters. They never address why there was a riot or violent protest.

Jonny7

JCabot wrote: »

I don't have a television so my main news comes from internet but certaintly I am not seeing much coverage of the unrest in europe. Finding headlines like "Massive Protest Erupts in Spain! Sep, 25, 2012" and "Citizens have surrounded the Congress building in Madrid and are demanding immediate resignation of the Government"

Where is RTEs coverage or Breakingnews.ie coveragw of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj0ZR51ONjw

news.google.ie type in "Spain protests".

Jonny7

seanmacc wrote: »

Ever since the Thatcher era in Britain many media (particularly state media) show very little footage of rioting and protest that turns violent. The reason being is that they believe that it encourages more people to go out and join them. They will always give more air time (like in the London riots) to random people commenting on how disgraceful the carry on was by the rioters. They never address why there was a riot or violent protest.

Oh, so what were the 14 yr old kids smashing up and looting shops protesting against?

seanmacc

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh, so what were the 14 yr old kids smashing up and looting shops protesting against?

The initial spark was the death of a young male at the hands of the met and ensuing protests that followed. Social deprivation with little prospect of life getting any better in areas in London has created a lost generation that the state and society don't care about. This lost generation lashed out. Not necessarily for a critical mass movement of change but because society in Britain doesn't care about them so they don't care about society.

During and after the riots the media was more focused with issues like conscription and internment of these youth than questioning the social problems that created the disorder.

Another example would be Dublin in summer 2006. You don't honestly think that the riot was about the Love Ulster march? None of the arrests made were members of the various Republican factions that were protesting that day.

nyarlothothep

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh, so what were the 14 yr old kids smashing up and looting shops protesting against?

Note that in the post quoted he said they never address the reasons why they riot or protest. Hence he distinguished between the London riots and protests.

nyarlothothep

seanmacc wrote: »

The initial spark was the death of a young male at the hands of the met and ensuing protests that followed. Social deprivation with little prospect of life getting any better in areas in London has created a lost generation that the state and society don't care about. This lost generation lashed out. Not necessarily for a critical mass movement of change but because society in Britain doesn't care about them so they don't care about society.

During and after the riots the media was more focused with issues like conscription and internment of these youth than questioning the social problems that created the disorder.

Another example would be Dublin in summer 2006. You don't honestly think that the riot was about the Love Ulster march? None of the arrests made were members of the various Republican factions that were protesting that day.

Also it's quite easy to muddle these arguments with the question of personal responsibility and then use it to contend that the conditions which affect that attribute in people are irrelevant, that it is completely to do with the individual or groups of individuals/a social class rather than the environmental pressures which inform their character. Therefore yes, personal responsibility does come into it, everyone has an either or choice but whatever class, most people follow the culture entailed in their class. The majority of middle class people go to college, many of the underclass turn to crime and drugs. Likewise in racist societies of the 19th century you had more racists because the cultures of that time encouraged it. (Incidentally the nanny state culture is quite worrying, if you treat people as complete idiots who can't even wash their hands, guess what social characteristic is going to be amplified?) I remember reading somewhere that former coal mining towns in the UK have a legacy of heroin abuse as a consequence of Thatcher's economic policies. So yes, society doesn't give a damn about them and unsurprisingly they don't give a damn about anyone in that society. Environmental conditions lead to certain outcomes. That's not a cause for sympathy either. They reflect in their generally bad attributes the decripitude of that society, which the benefactors are unwilling to admit to themselves or to others. Whatever the future holds it would be a source of great amusement if people centuries from now look back on us and laugh at the silly notions circulating here and elsewhere of propping up this broken economic system, because somehow "capitalism" as it is now sanctioned by the ruling classes, predicated essentially on robbing the "plebs" which includes the people defending it (much in the same way working class Americans in the bible belt vote against their interests by voting Republican) is the best system that coheres with a ridiculous made up fictitious notion of human nature. It's hilarious in a way to think that these arguments about human nature aren't based on scientific evidence but are predicated on anecdotal experiences and even at the base level, the assumption is that nature=bad, human nature=bad. Isn't that linked to Enlightenment notions of how the natural/the wilderness was inherently evil/dangerous/threatening and had to be conquered by man, with all that was natural/myterious/irrational being linked with the nocturnal and the female? So really the term human nature is misleading because it invites a negative pre conception of what it means to be human. And then it's unscientific, how do you quantify something as complex as that? It's absurd. Yet people, usually conservatives/righties will propound that the system isn't broken, move along nothing to see here, when all the evidence is screaming at them in the face, this is absurd. So it would be funny if future generations scoffed at the status quo supporters much in the same way we scoff at the status quo supporters of the 19th century with their hysterical notions of miscegnation and their primitive colonial racism.

JCabot

I find it ironic how little press coverage something like this gets, it appeared on RTE website after I posted about it this morning but now I can not find it at all. So what happened was it pulled as not worthy of coverage. Likewise breaking news have a small mention of it and about some injuries but thats it. Kate Middletons Tits got more press coverage!!!

Funny the alert recieved from boards about replies to my initial post contained reference to the youtube link which I attached and my email has a warning
saying "This message contains blocked images"

Jonny7

seanmacc wrote: »

The initial spark was the death of a young male at the hands of the met and ensuing protests that followed. Social deprivation with little prospect of life getting any better in areas in London has created a lost generation that the state and society don't care about. This lost generation lashed out. Not necessarily for a critical mass movement of change but because society in Britain doesn't care about them so they don't care about society.

These weren't "protests". It was violence, hooliganism, opportunism, criminal, vandalism. It involved well off kids almost as much as "socially deprived" kids.

During and after the riots the media was more focused with issues like conscription and internment of these youth than questioning the social problems that created the disorder.

There was wall-to-wall coverage, analysis, debate and the whole event was put under the microscope by hundreds of different media outlets.

It was a combination of bad parenting, a sense of entitlement, boredom, and social conditions (e.g. families living off state handouts for generations)

Jonny7

JCabot wrote: »

I find it ironic how little press coverage something like this gets, it appeared on RTE website after I posted about it this morning but now I can not find it at all. So what happened was it pulled as not worthy of coverage. Likewise breaking news have a small mention of it and about some injuries but thats it. Kate Middletons Tits got more press coverage!!!

Which press did you check for this? The recent Greek austerity protests and Spanish protests were mentioned on RTE on the day (I was listening on the radio, was the first story). It was mentioned in most other news media that I am aware of.

These protests have been happening for years.

Tzar Chasm

A more pertinent question should be why are the no protests here, why haven't masses of people descended upon the dail after the myriad of broken promises and outright corruption from our current government.

What do we need to do to get 'the plain people of ireland' off their arses and out on the street.

I am trying, I spent a few hours today in the bullring in wexford, standing beneath a monument to the slain of 1798 asking people to attend a public meeting on Thursday, the apathy was heart breaking but the animosity from people who blindly defend everything the government tells them to do 'because its the law' is even more disgusting

Agent Mug

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

A more pertinent question should be why are the no protests here, why haven't masses of people descended upon the dail after the myriad of broken promises and outright corruption from our current government.

What do we need to do to get 'the plain people of ireland' off their arses and out on the street.

I am trying, I spent a few hours today in the bullring in wexford, standing beneath a monument to the slain of 1798 asking people to attend a public meeting on Thursday, the apathy was heart breaking but the animosity from people who blindly defend everything the government tells them to do 'because its the law' is even more disgusting

Because those to are fortunate to be still employed are still earning a very good wage here compare to workers in other countries, and that one of the reasons why the unions here wont get involve, but i do agree with what you're saying.

Tzar Chasm

So its a case of
I'm alright jack

That seems a little too simplistic to me, i'm in college at the moment, but when this whole thing started I was working for myself and turning a tidy profit, I still got involved, I saw an injustice and said NO, I can't understand why people tolerate it all

Agent Mug

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

So its a case of
I'm alright jack

That seems a little too simplistic to me, i'm in college at the moment, but when this whole thing started I was working for myself and turning a tidy profit, I still got involved, I saw an injustice and said NO, I can't understand why people tolerate it all

Simplistic or not thats reality, you can stand on the highest platform and shout your words with the loudest mic and people will stop and listen for a while, and then they'll go away, whether you like it or not its when the unions get involved, then you will see mass turns out, because that what the government in this country fear the most, Union involvement.

Jonny7

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

So its a case of
I'm alright jack

That seems a little too simplistic to me, i'm in college at the moment, but when this whole thing started I was working for myself and turning a tidy profit, I still got involved, I saw an injustice and said NO, I can't understand why people tolerate it all

Of course people are apathetic.. there will always be a level of corruption and there will always be broken promises in every government. It's a part of life.

Out of 180+ countries in the world, Ireland ranks 19th on corruption - not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Could be better of course, will we take to the streets? not so much.

If you are really into it, set up your own party.

rockclover1

I never heard anything about it,and yes i have to agree with the other poster,they never address why there was a protest,but only comment on protests like the london riots and its all from a certain slant..

Agent Mug

Jonny7 wrote: »

Of course people are apathetic.. there will always be a level of corruption and there will always be broken promises in every government. It's a part of life.

Out of 180+ countries in the world, Ireland ranks 19th on corruption - not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Could be better of course, will we take to the streets? not so much.

If you are really into it, set up your own party.

Hi ill stand with Tzar Chasm any day but in reality its the unions that will fight for the workers wage, but as i have already said i agree with what Tzar Chasm is saying, do you, or maybe you'll find it easy to set up your own party.

Tzar Chasm

Well I considered my options and the best option I could see was to join the national campaign against household taxes.

But back to the point I was making, why is corruption accepted? It wasn't always like that, so now why are we apathetic?

Agent Mug

why is corruption accepted, because deals where made, are they still accepted, yes and no.

apathetic, bull****, if the time come you'll see.

Tzar Chasm

What deals, no one ever made a deal with me.

As for when the time comes, if giving a blanket guarantee that the people of ireland would pay the gambling debts of european banks and then taxing our homes to cover this debt ain't the time I wonder if it will ever come.

Agent Mug

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

What deals, no one ever made a deal with me.

As for when the time comes, if giving a blanket guarantee that the people of ireland would pay the gambling debts of european banks and then taxing our homes to cover this debt ain't the time I wonder if it will ever come.

If there was a ever a deal made withen you make the right one.

As for when the time comes. you're not a blanket, blanket don't have guarantee, but the future has.

Jonny7

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Well I considered my options and the best option I could see was to join the national campaign against household taxes.

But back to the point I was making, why is corruption accepted? It wasn't always like that, so now why are we apathetic?

When was it not like that?

Tzar Chasm

There was a time when a minister would be forced to resign in the face of a scandal

Niall-11-

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh, so what were the 14 yr old kids smashing up and looting shops protesting against?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMvuoGji3yU

This is what happened. Watch if you're interested.

Jonny7

Niall-11- wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMvuoGji3yU

This is what happened. Watch if you're interested.

Thanks, but I know exactly what happened, from multiple sources, including relatives and friends who were directly affected by the violence.

Tzar Chasm

Was mark duggan armed?

Did he threaten the police with a firearm?

Was he executed in custody?

Jonny7

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Was mark duggan armed?

Did he threaten the police with a firearm?

Was he executed in custody?

A known criminal associated with weapons was rightfully or wrongfully shot by a special police unit.

Who can blame well-meaning youngsters for burning down businesses, looting playstations and attacking pensioners after that.

Tzar Chasm

Jonny7 wrote: »

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Was mark duggan armed?

Did he threaten the police with a firearm?

Was he executed in custody?

A known criminal associated with weapons was rightfully or wrongfully shot by a special police unit.

Who can blame well-meaning youngsters for burning down businesses, looting playstations and attacking pensioners after that.

That's the key point tho.

Rather than pontificate about the results why not discuss the cause

Jonny7

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

That's the key point tho.

Rather than pontificate about the results why not discuss the cause

So that's the cause, if the police wrongfully shoot a violent criminal.. the injustice is too great and the "public" have to go into the streets and burn local businesses, steal playstations, kill pensioners yes?

Let's discuss the "cause" of violent soccer hooliganism, Motherwell scoring a goal, because that's where the issue really lies. How did Motherwell score that goal? what really happened on that day? yadda yadda

Tzar Chasm

That was the spark which ignited that particular riot, bear in mind that it started out as a reasonable and peaceful protest demanding answers to those questions.

So how do you dismiss the greek riots?

Roger!

RTE are controlled! "Our Government" are pro-e.u no matter what. I try R.T (Russia today) for some real new's now & again.

GalwayGuy2

I try R.T (Russia today) for some real new's now & again.

(Facepalm)

Jonny7

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

That was the spark which ignited that particular riot, bear in mind that it started out as a reasonable and peaceful protest demanding answers to those questions.

Take the word "spark" and replace with the word "excuse".

So how do you dismiss the greek riots?

uh please show us the protester's placards in Brixton and Tottenham - what were they protesting exactly? how easy it is to break into Car-Phone Warehouse? how simple it is to beat and rob foreign students while the police are engaged elsewhere?

asherbassad

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh, so what were the 14 yr old kids smashing up and looting shops protesting against?

Well, one has to ask why these riots occured?
Taking the easy way out by simply expressing outrage at the behaviour of some is just plain lazy.

Jonny7

asherbassad wrote: »

Well, one has to ask why these riots occured?
Taking the easy way out by simply expressing outrage at the behaviour of some is just plain lazy.

I explained why earlier in the thread.

Run_to_da_hills

Spanish cops beating everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzP8znpQI9I

Spanish crowds turn on cops. Proper order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6aKZxaEUC0