TCD-UCD merger

Ziphius

Yes it seems this inane idea is back in fashion. According to an article published in today's Irish times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0925/1224324360924.html which refers to a report commissioned by the HEA.

"The report says a UCD-TCD merger would give the merged college the critical mass and expertise needed to secure a place among the world’s best-ranked universities. At present, Ireland is not represented among the top 100 universities in the prestigious Times Higher Education World Reputation Ranking."

The report also includes a few more bizarre match ups such as
"the merger of DCU, NUI Maynooth, Athlone IT and Dundalk IT"

and

"the creation of a national technological university with a campus in both Dublin and Waterford."

Merging universities will not somehow magic them into the top of the rankings. Instead arduous waste of time for the university staff.

That the HEA believes these philistine bridge-to-nowhere schemes are worthwhile is stunning.

Sure UCD can become a constituent college alongside Trinity.

Seriously though, I was pretty sure this was killed in the 70s or 80s and I would imagine there it will stay.

Skerries

Ziphius

Dónal wrote: »

Sure UCD can become a constituent college alongside Trinity.

Seriously though, I was pretty sure this was killed in the 70s or 80s and I would imagine there it will stay.

I doubt that's what they mean by the word 'merger'. If the goal was simply top get the two institutions under the same vague umbrella organisation surely it would be easier to incorporated Trinity (even the DU) into the NUI?

Yes it was previously touted by Brian Lenihan senior when he was minister. It seems like it's been resurrected. The article is from today, September 25 2012.

Kwekubo

This was started in the '60s but was eventually killed. The furthest they got was to combine some individual departments - for example, both dental schools moved to Trinity, and the veterinary medicine and agricultural studies departments moved to UCD.

Lawliet

Kwekubo wrote: »

This was started in the '60s but was eventually killed. The furthest they got was to combine some individual departments - for example, both dental schools moved to Trinity, and the veterinary medicine and agricultural studies departments moved to UCD.

Ah, I always wondered why vet med was moved to UCD

Ziphius

Skerries wrote: »

Yeah, when I first read the headline I assumed it was an old article form the archive refering to this. But no, evidentially people today still think it's a worthwhile idea.

Newaglish

I imagine the resulting organisation would be an academic/office politics nightmare.

ucdperson

"The report says a UCD-TCD merger would give the merged college the critical mass and expertise needed to secure a place among the world’s best-ranked universities. At present, Ireland is not represented among the top 100 universities in the prestigious Times Higher Education World Reputation Ranking."

Some rankings simply count the total research output rather than per staff member. So you would rise in such a ranking, without actually doing anything. Whether you should want to rise in such a ranking is another question.

UCD and TCD are already reasonably large institutions, there isn't a great deal of real benefit in merging them, although coordination could be of benefit.

Ziphius

Kwekubo wrote: »

This was started in the '60s but was eventually killed. The furthest they got was to combine some individual departments - for example, both dental schools moved to Trinity, and the veterinary medicine and agricultural studies departments moved to UCD.

The veterinary schools were a bit of an anomaly to be honest. At the time, essentially, two schools (TCD and UCD) operated in the same site in Ballsbridge ( I think the site is a hotel now). Classes were taught by the Department of Agriculture staff but degrees were awarded by the universities to their respective students (a quota was established for students). A merger of the two schools seems sensible in this case.


Both Donogh O'Malley and Brian Lenihan supported the merger of TCD and UCD while they were minister of education during the 60s. It obviously failed but the idea seems to be gaining traction now. Tom Boland suggested it a few years ago (2009, I think) and this new report suggests it as well.


There is definitely a lot a pressure on colleges to merge, particularly among the smaller colleges. I think each of the 14 IoTs has announced some form of merger plan in a view to forming a Technological University. And certain smaller colleges have merged with Universities. Froebal with NUI Maynooth and NCAD with UCD for example.

Anita Blow

Doubt it'll happen if that old article is anything to go by. Having to have a constitutional referendum to merge 2 Universities would be a huge waste of money and would get no support

Ziphius

Anita Blow wrote: »

Doubt it'll happen if that old article is anything to go by. Having to have a constitutional referendum to merge 2 Universities would be a huge waste of money and would get no support

Not if it entailed abolishing the senate

But yes you're right, the chances of this actually happening are extremely small. Still, I think it suggests an unsavory attitude coming from the HSE.

brownacid

They would have to re-name S.H.I.T. so that it is in keeping with the oxbridge convention and considering that the renaming of iit to NUI Dublin never took off I would say that this merger is never gonna happedn.

missdisco

Merging makes more sense with struggling institutes or specialist schools -- like medicine or drama ones -- than two huge (and presumably not struggling?) universities.


Who gives a toss about those rankings anyway? Everytime i check, everyone's shifting around, except for harvard oxford cambridge.

missdisco

brownacid wrote: »

the renaming of iit to NUI Dublin never took off I would say that this merger is never gonna happedn.

NUID? Was that pronounced as 'nude' LOL