The Fair Tax

Iwannahurl

The Fair Tax: Supported by History, Agreed by Economists, Feared by the 1%

I've only just heard about this book, and the nature of the property tax it advocates, so I don't yet have a position on the issue. Is anyone here familiar with the book, and/or the Fair Tax it advocates?

From the blurb:

The tax regime in Ireland, Colm McCarthy points out in his Preface, has been very favourable to property owners, but especially to developers who, together with their banks, took maximum advantage. It fuelled the disastrous property boom with the huge development-site debts racked up by a handful of avaricious developers, and led directly to the Irish state having to shore up the collapsing banks. Under pressure from the Troika rather than from a conviction of its merits, the Irish government is belatedly introducing a property tax. Instead, however, of targeting irresponsible developers, speculators and banks, the government is planning to bail them out again by excluding their land hoards and undeveloped sites from the new property tax. So that they can continue to pay nothing, ordinary home owners will have to pay at least 20% extra tax every year. The argument put forward in this book is that how property is taxed is can make a big difference both to government and the taxpayer. Most commonly property taxes are based on the full improved value of the property, but this means penalising those who improve their property.

Fred Harrison, who is a long-time champion of a land tax, gave the book an enthusiastic welcome on Drivetime yesterday (Monday).

Here are a couple of quick links which outline Harrison's perspective:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/apr/11/economicpolicy.comment

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/jan/08/tax.business

Senna

Of course a great idea.................. 6+ years late or 6+ years early.

The property tax will come into effect and its all well and good saying who should pay for the crimes of the past, but chasing developers and banks will only put the cost back onto the state.

A property tax could go hand-in-hand with a land tax, which could be taxed via its zoning, but the state needs money now and in the midst of the worst property crash this country will hopefully ever see, a land tax were more of the burden is placed on speculators and developers is likely to cost the state more that it would gain (by implementation and non-payment alone).

amacca

How would this fair tax affect farmers with mostly agricultural land? (lets say no juicy development sites on it)

Senna

amacca wrote: »

How would this fair tax affect farmers with mostly agricultural land? (lets say no juicy development sites on it)

The tax would depend on the lands zoning, if its zoned for agricultural, then it would probably (rightly or wrongly) have little or no tax.

Good loser

Heard this guy Harrison on Drivetime, Monday.

Was always unimpressed with the idea of a site value tax and having heard this nut talking about it my opinion remains the same.

He doesn't appreciate the house building industry is stone dead in this country and will remain so for years.

The only crowd who could conceiveably 'hoard' sites for an economic upturn are Nama. And that is the last thing they have any intention of doing.

Development charges for planning capture (or should capture) the increased value of land engendered by servicing of same. The stupid local authorities allowed developers to defer paying these charges up front during the boom; result was developers paid all the borrowed money they could get their hands on to buy sites ratcheting up prices to ridiculous levels.

A property tax is a wealth tax on residential property simpliciter. Why tax a fraction of that wealth rather than the whole?

This country has big problems and small ones. The 'efficient use of land' comes under neither appellation.

Iwannahurl

Good loser wrote: »

Heard this guy Harrison on Drivetime, Monday.

Was always unimpressed with the idea of a site value tax and having heard this nut talking about it my opinion remains the same.

He doesn't appreciate the house building industry is stone dead in this country and will remain so for years.

The only crowd who could conceiveably 'hoard' sites for an economic upturn are Nama. And that is the last thing they have any intention of doing.

Development charges for planning capture (or should capture) the increased value of land engendered by servicing of same. The stupid local authorities allowed developers to defer paying these charges up front during the boom; result was developers paid all the borrowed money they could get their hands on to buy sites ratcheting up prices to ridiculous levels.

A property tax is a wealth tax on residential property simpliciter. Why tax a fraction of that wealth rather than the whole?

This country has big problems and small ones. The 'efficient use of land' comes under neither appellation.

Is Constantin Gurdgiev a nut as well?

Manach

Property/Land taxes are out of sync with the concept of taxes as assets are not revenue generating but instead in some cases sinks of money. This property tax is the state scraping the bottom of the barrel in a desperate attempt to prop up its out of control social welfare interventionist state.
Historically during the 19th Century, the lack of proper title to land meant people in rural areas were loath to invest and build up the infrastructure. By effectively nationialsing the houses/land, the people status is again being pushed back into the status of serf.
Instead of really on the largess of the Big House, it is the largess of the Big State.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is Constantin Gurdgiev a nut as well?

After claiming we'll default by the end of the week a couple years back and being part of a swiss investment company with declan ganley who are actively subverting the euro by calling for deposits to leave the eurozone - absolutely.

He's about as credible, possibly even less so, as McWillaims - who lost all credibility after his attempts at rewriting history denying his calls for a full banking guarantee of all Irish banks tow days before Lenihan did just that (interestingly his website is down).

Idbatterim

what makes me laugh about society here now is that it is deemed "fair" and that we need to apply the cuts and increased taxes in a "fair way" if we were to start a new society from total scratch tomorrow and what we have now is proposed as a fair and equitable society, it would be laughed at!