Ryanair Emergency Landing in Berlin

murphaph

Not sure if already posted, couldn't find if so.

Berlin / Reudelsterz - Another emergency landing of Irish budget carrier Ryanair continues a series of technical problems. On Monday a Boening 73-800 on her way from London-Stansted (STN) to Bratislava (BTS) left its original route near the central German city of Kassel and perfomed an emergency landing at Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) at around 09.00 hours Monday, as different newspaper sources reported.

An unpecified warining light in the cockpit had the plane rounded. The airline claimed there was no real emergency at hand and the flashing light itself had suffered a malfunction. In recent weeks Ryanair had been repeatingly assailed for pushing pilots to operate beyond safe fuel limits and under enormous pressure for cost cutting. More than a dozen Ryanair jets are reported to have performed emergency landings this year. The Irish airline operates 292 Boeing 737-80 aircraft.

source

It was widely reported on the news here today. Seems (fairly or otherwise) that quite a few people are concerned enough with Ryanair's issues over the past couple of weeks to fly with someone else.

Given the choice, I'd probably do the same tbh, even if it's just my perception of the airline that has changed.

adamski8

so a warning light came on that was actually just the button itself that malfunctioned? how is this even threadworthy? maybe for the most cautious emergency landing in history? and what would this prove? that ryanair pilots are very careful and take safety very seriously? This case would make me more likely to fly with them!

murphaph

adamski8 wrote: »

so a warning light came on that was actually just the button itself that malfunctioned? how is this even threadworthy? maybe for the most cautious emergency landing in history? and what would this prove? that ryanair pilots are very careful and take safety very seriously? This case would make me more likely to fly with them!

It probably wouldn't be threadworthy in AH but this is Aviation & Aircraft, so is threadworthy here.

bluecode

You should subscribe to flight radar 24 on your smartphone if you have one. There's a facility to receive alerts for airliners squawking 7700 the emergency code. There are several every day. Oddly enough most of them are not Ryanair. Right now there's an American airlines jet out there with a problem.

I suspect it won't be posted anywhere on the internet or maybe just avherald.

There is a campaign currently being run by the Spanish authorities to malign Ryanair. It's nothing to do with safety and all about protecting inefficent Spanish airlines.

The Ryanair aircraft had a caution light of some sort. So they followed the rules and diverted. It turned out to be a non event.

The only reason it even got a mention was that Ryanair are in the spotlight right now for the reasons mentioned above.

No doubt if there are excessive maintenance issues within the Ryanair fleet then Ryanair itself is urgently investigating. For no other reason than the the fact the diversions are expensive.

Somehow or other I don't believe there is a problem with maintenance. The problem I believe is the constant negativity and aggression emanating from Ryanair management has finally backfired on them and the likes of the Spanish and other countries are beginning to put them under scrutiny in the hope of bringing them down.

It won't happen of course.

Su Campu

What a non-thread. :rolleyes: Look at this most recent list from Avherald and count the number of Ryanairs in there. Not many, for the largest airline in Europe.

adamski8

murphaph wrote: »

It probably wouldn't be threadworthy in AH but this is Aviation & Aircraft, so is threadworthy here.

your getting confused with appropriate forum for a thread and what is threadworthy!

Cessna_Pilot

"In recent weeks Ryanair had been repeatingly assailed for pushing pilots to operate beyond safe fuel limits and under enormous pressure for cost cutting"

What a load of ****e.

Tenger

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

"In recent weeks Ryanair had been repeatingly assailed for pushing pilots to operate beyond safe fuel limits and under enormous pressure for cost cutting"

What a load of ****e.

Well it has been 'assailed' recently........the media are stirring up ****e with overly dramatic stories about what normal occurences in aviation....and then you have the crazy Spaniards trying to cast blame on FR......
Whether you agree or not FR has been getting some bad press recently with the impacts of cost cutting on safety being the focus.
Just stating facts,not casting any aspersions on FR.



OT: As for this story...it was a precautionary diversion, nothing more.

weisses

Su Campu wrote: »

What a non-thread. :rolleyes: Look at this most recent list from Avherald and count the number of Ryanairs in there. Not many, for the largest airline in Europe.

Thats Irish ferries for me so next time

Chicken1

It was widely reported on the news here today. Seems (fairly or otherwise)
that quite a few people are concerned enough with Ryanair's issues over the past
couple of weeks to fly with someone else.

Given the choice, I'd probably
do the same tbh, even if it's just my perception of the airline that has
changed.

Come on get real here Ryanair now one of the biggest airlines in the World 300 modern Boeing 737/800 aircraft, with a fleet that size of course they will have the odd light flash a warning, 25 years of safe flying never lost a passenger they are one very safe airline. Flown with them loads of times and will continue to do so.

Strumms

The media have long had an inappropriate habit of sensationalizing stories or non stories surrounding aviation as they have other stories obviously. Some abnormal event that had no safety implications suddenly becomes something like "400 screaming passengers on the 737" with a picture of a 767 or something above the caption. Fact is with such a huge fleet you are bound to come accross more events shall we say then any other airline. Also it could be Ryanair's bully boy tactics and taste for deliberitely courting contorvery for their own gain that will leave snipers out there in the grass waiting for them, they can't have it every way but I really hate how clued out and sensationalistic the general media are when it comes to aircraft and aviation.

pclancy

murphaph wrote: »

It probably wouldn't be threadworthy in AH but this is Aviation & Aircraft, so is threadworthy here.

I think 90% of posters here wouldnt be interested that pilots decided to land due to a warning light on in the cockpit that turned out to be nothing. Standard procedure and a non event really in aviation and as pointed out above you can see for yourself how many other things happened the same day.

But you're welcome to discuss your fears and why your perception of Ryanair has changed of late, plenty of people here work for them so might be eager to contribute.

Personally I really wish papers wouldn't publish this stuff. It just achieves nothing except scaremongering. If I owned an airline I'd be very quick to point out the fact this stuff happens on a daily basis to every airline in the world.

Bearcat

Agree with all of the above but M O'L just courts trouble with the press thus brings the spot light on FR. I know a lot of FR guys, top people, excellent operators that run a tight ship.

MuffinsDa

Chicken1 wrote: »

Come on get real here Ryanair now one of the biggest airlines in the World 300 modern Boeing 737/800 aircraft, with a fleet that size of course they will have the odd light flash a warning, 25 years of safe flying never lost a passenger they are one very safe airline. Flown with them loads of times and will continue to do so.

"Let's not be Turkeys!"

LeftBase

The media are in a witchhunt and all too happy to have a go at Ryanair.

The problem is that I have seen many clueless fools over the past few weeks with no idea of the circumstance of the diversions or workings of the aviation spouting total nonsense. It is becoming a little bit of a popular uprising among jilted Ryanair passengers.

The old saying "The failing of Democracy is that 2 idiots can out vote a genius" comes to mind here!

munchkin_utd

Tenger wrote: »

Well it has been 'assailed' recently........the media are stirring up ****e with overly dramatic stories about what normal occurences in aviation....and then you have the crazy Spaniards trying to cast blame on FR......
Whether you agree or not FR has been getting some bad press recently with the impacts of cost cutting on safety being the focus.
Just stating facts,not casting any aspersions on FR.
OT: As for this story...it was a precautionary diversion, nothing more.

for those who say its not newsworthy, maybe you are too plane focused and not thinking of the business as a commercial enterprise, which is about filling seats with thinking breathing passengers who on the whole want to feel secure that they will come out alive at the end of it.
Ryanair may have the newest fleet and best safety record in Europe or the world.
Those facts though are completely irrelevant if peoples perception is that the airline does not take safety seriously.

How quickly a business can go downhill due to perceptions is very easily shown by Ratners jewellers who with a few loose comments from their boss managed in no time to go from being worth 500million pounds to almost shutting down as nobody trusted what they were selling any more.
Some of you are dismissing this far too easily. Ryanair is coming up again and again with headlines relating to safety and this sort of thing DOES stick in the mind of the über cautious german which is where this incident occured and where the OP is writing from.

One of the bigest culture shocks I myself got when coming to Germany is that people have insurance for everything because they dont like risk. Its not just house and car insurance like in Ireland. Virtually everyone has 3rd party insurance on themselves (haftpflicht) in case you damage someones property accidentally. You have legal insurance in case you might have legal dealings. You have accident insurance in case you get hurt and might need plastic surgery. etc etc etc.

The irish attitude is "it'll be grand", fierce optimistic folks altogether
The germans think "it might go wrong" (so i must have 2 dozen insurance policies to cover every eventuality), with a aversion to risk and presumption that stuff might go pear shaped that is alien to the Irish view of the world.

Ryanair might go from strength to strength in Ireland where folks have a more keen awareness of the facts around the cases.
But in germany and other more risk averse countries I could see Ryanair getting stung sooner rather than later if these stories keep appearing.

JJLongford

munchkin_utd wrote: »

for those who say its not newsworthy, maybe you are too plane focused and not thinking of the business as a commercial enterprise, which is about filling seats with thinking breathing passengers who on the whole want to feel secure that they will come out alive at the end of it.
Ryanair may have the newest fleet and best safety record in Europe or the world.
Those facts though are completely irrelevant if peoples perception is that the airline does not take safety seriously.

How quickly a business can go downhill due to perceptions is very easily shown by Ratners jewellers who with a few loose comments from their boss managed in no time to go from being worth 500million pounds to almost shutting down as nobody trusted what they were selling any more.
Some of you are dismissing this far too easily. Ryanair is coming up again and again with headlines relating to safety and this sort of thing DOES stick in the mind of the über cautious german which is where this incident occured and where the OP is writing from.

One of the bigest culture shocks I myself got when coming to Germany is that people have insurance for everything because they dont like risk. Its not just house and car insurance like in Ireland. Virtually everyone has 3rd party insurance on themselves (haftpflicht) in case you damage someones property accidentally. You have legal insurance in case you might have legal dealings. You have accident insurance in case you get hurt and might need plastic surgery. etc etc etc.

The irish attitude is "it'll be grand", fierce optimistic folks altogether
The germans think "it might go wrong" (so i must have 2 dozen insurance policies to cover every eventuality), with a aversion to risk and presumption that stuff might go pear shaped that is alien to the Irish view of the world.

Ryanair might go from strength to strength in Ireland where folks have a more keen awareness of the facts around the cases.
But in germany and other more risk averse countries I could see Ryanair getting stung sooner rather than later if these stories keep appearing.

If the Germans are as conscientious as you say how did the Lufty incident in Hamburg go down with them? If I remember correctly xwind limits were exceeded with a subsequent wingtip strike. One of the more serious incidents I've seen in a while...

As much as we like to think we're an integrated big happy family in Europe I think all governments are going to look out for their own. Ryanair are massive by any standards. They are growing fast in Madrid Barajas (I think Easyjet are closing the base there). That would be like Wizzair coming to Dublin and in a few years taking a large chunk out of Ryanair and Aer Lingus. We, Irish, may be proud but I'd say the Spanish are quaking it with the trends of pax numbers to be honest... Of course, they'll try dirty tricks. Ryanair should see it as a complement. It's somewhat symptomatic of their success.

CaptainSkidmark

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

Technoprisoner

JJLongford wrote: »

As much as we like to think we're an integrated big happy family in Europe I think all governments are going to look out for their own. Ryanair are massive by any standards. They are growing fast in Madrid Barajas (I think Easyjet are closing the base there). That would be like Wizzair coming to Dublin and in a few years taking a large chunk out of Ryanair and Aer Lingus. We, Irish, may be proud but I'd say the Spanish are quaking it with the trends of pax numbers to be honest... Of course, they'll try dirty tricks. Ryanair should see it as a complement. It's somewhat symptomatic of their success.

and the worse thing about it is our own government have no intrest in looking out for one of its biggest sucesess ireland has to offer

JJLongford

Technoprisoner wrote: »

and the worse thing about it is our own government have no intrest in looking out for one of its biggest sucesess ireland has to offer

Well, they have in a way. Ya gotta remember governments operate differently to us common folk. Enda won't get up in the Dáil and say 'You bunch of spics, cop yourselves on'... The I.A.A. have said come over and we'll show you the works. So from an official point of view the government are doing what they can. The foreign press on the other hand - well, it's easy fodder. Play on the fear people have of flying:Low cost/low maintenance standards bla bla bla, perfect recipe!

Technoprisoner

JJLongford wrote: »

Well, they have in a way. Ya gotta remember governments operate differently to us common folk. Enda won't get up in the Dáil and say 'You bunch of spics, cop yourselves on'... The I.A.A. have said come over and we'll show you the works. So from an official point of view the government are doing what they can. The foreign press on the other hand - well, it's easy fodder. Play on the fear people have of flying:Low cost/low maintenance standards bla bla bla, perfect recipe!

i meant in the way that the irish government treat ryanair.

lord lucan

Technoprisoner wrote: »

and the worse thing about it is our own government have no intrest in looking out for one of its biggest sucesess ireland has to offer

In fairness,FR do themselves no favours with their combative nature,including having a pop at multiple Governments,Ministers and State Agencies.

Also,iirc it was the Government here in the 90's that ordered EI off the DUB-STN route and allowed a struggling FR to take it up which was the the break FR needed. Whilst that FR and the current beast bear little resemblance,they might never have had the chance to become what they did without government interference.

dubdaymo

lord lucan wrote: »

In fairness,FR do themselves no favours with their combative nature,including having a pop at multiple Governments,Ministers and State Agencies.

Maybe so but it must be very frustrating for a go-ahead company like Ryanair to be constantly thwarted by hopelessly inept Transport Ministers and puppet Regulators.

lord lucan wrote: »

Also,iirc it was the Government here in the 90's that ordered EI off the DUB-STN route and allowed a struggling FR to take it up which was the the break FR needed. Whilst that FR and the current beast bear little resemblance,they might never have had the chance to become what they did without government interference.

Government interference suggests BAD. Not in this case. It was mainly down to one man, Séamus Brennan, who knew what the Aer Lingus/DAA/BA Cartel was all about and had the vision to destroy it. Thank God for the man.

Cienciano

pclancy wrote: »

If I owned an airline I'd be very quick to point out the fact this stuff happens on a daily basis to every airline in the world.

I can imagine ryanair come out with a big ad campaign with emergengy landing percentage per flight with them ahead of a few spanish airlines very soon.

LLU

lord lucan wrote: »

In fairness,FR do themselves no favours with their combative nature,including having a pop at multiple Governments,Ministers and State Agencies.

....

Very true. It might get you 'free' publicity, but at what cost? If there's one thing I learned from Carlitos Way its that you shouldnt make enemies unnecessarily, they'll wait for their chance and get you when you least expect it!

pclancy

Its just like this article in a local paper about Ryanairs Pacific equivalent, Jetstar.

Low cost airlines the world over get pounced on by media and the flying public when something goes wrong.

Even today many people don't get it that low cost airlines operate on tight, lean, no-frills business models to save costs and therefore offer low fairs. This model won't include things such as highly paid cabin crew with English as their first language, check in desks, servicing main/hub airports, free food or inflight entertainment. The airline is going to try and get your cash in other ways such as selling on board junk, exit seats, wifi etc etc. If you dont stick to their strict terms and conditions of sale you'll get refused boarding or pay extra. If an aircraft goes tech you're not going anywhere because they dont pay to keep one on standby and good luck to you if you think you're getting a hotel!

But all the above doesn't mean that safety is compromised. Safety for low cost airlines the world over is absolute paramount because of the media being so bad as it is. Imagine the field day that the papers would have if a Ryanair incident happened due to something that could be attributed to their mistake or lack of safety controls, it would be a PR catastrophe. Same for Jestar, Southwest, Easyjet etc. They all run tight ships because of how important safety is in the minds of the travelling public, its got to be before profit and share price because without a good safety record your airline is doomed.

Ryanair have a massive, modern fleet of aircraft and their record is A+ when it comes to safety. You might not like the bugle playing when they land you on time or the guady yellow plastic but the people up the front of the aircraft are top notch and simply wouldnt be flying you around in an unsafe aircraft. They want to get home to their wife just as much as you do.

Bessarion

dubdaymo wrote: »

Maybe so but it must be very frustrating for a go-ahead company like Ryanair to be constantly thwarted by hopelessly inept Transport Ministers and puppet Regulators............

While I will agree with the inept Transport ministers statement I have to ask you not to take all statement from MoL as 100% true. In fairness the IAA has a very light touch style of regulation.......hence why all the aviation leasing companies have offices here. Approx 50% of the Alitalia fleet is actually registered in Ireland.

dubdaymo

Bessarion wrote: »

While I will agree with the inept Transport ministers statement I have to ask you not to take all statement from MoL as 100% true.

I don't need MOL to acquaint me of the facts. It's all as plain as a pikestaff.

bluecode

One of the features of the Flightradar2 app is the ability to filter out a particular airline. This morning out of curiosity I checked out Ryanair. They have 164 jets enroute at about 8 am. Just now I checked and there's 154. Easyjet have 137. Earlier BA had only 85, which is a little unfair as many of their aircraft will be in places where there is no coverage.

But whatever way you look at it Ryanair are huge and anyone who knows anything about aeroplanes know that they go wrong every now and then. That's the nature of the beast.

The Spanish are attempting back door protectionism. Protecting their own, instead of making them more efficient. I find it really ironic that Ireland should have one of the most dominant airlines in Europe. Given our track record in almost every other field. We are more like the Spanish than the Germans. Yet all over Europe jets with Irish flags and EI regs almost dominate.

There is no secret about Ryanair's success. It's obvious for all to see. Anyone can do it. But apparently they'd rather try and bring it down by stealth rather than competition.

sunshinediver

Bessarion wrote: »

In fairness the IAA has a very light touch style of regulation.......hence why all the aviation leasing companies have offices here. Approx 50% of the Alitalia fleet is actually registered in Ireland.

Light touch regulation? The aircraft registration procedure is somewhat easier and less bureaucratic in Ireland than some other countries but that is due to Ireland having a long aviation history more so than light touch regulation.

Couple that with 12.5% corporation tax and you'll have your answer as to why most of the leasing companies are here.

munchkin_utd

ironic!

It just came out yesterday that nearly TWO years ago Lufthansa subsidiary German Wings had an emergency landing in Cologne which they were less than disclosing on the details of!
Aparantly the air supply to the cockpit was somehow faulty, the pilots were barely concious when landing. This was covered up till the initial version of the official report was published yesterday.
EDIT: it wasnt the media they were hiding info from! They incredibly withheld information from the National Accident investigation unit so it was a year before THEY knew there was anything to investigate in the first place!

there's a mention of it here
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5574452/

Unfortunately the english language media seems slow on the pickup.
No doubt its all over the spanish papers though seeing as they are so concerned about airline safety all of a sudden!

anyhow, if you can read german or use google translate, heres an article on the incident
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/zwischenfall-bei-germanwings-airbus-luftnotlage-beim-landeanflug-1.1481276

munchkin_utd

UPDATE:
heres an english language version of what happened.

Airbus 'nearly crashed' when pilots fell ill

jjgdju74

Just off a Ryanair flight this morning that had 2 make an emergency landing. Dublin to Fuertaventura. We were flying out at 7:20 am So we were in the skies at 7;30. About ten minutes later at 30,000 feet in the sky the plane made a sharp veer to the right and the captain came on the radio telling us there was a problem with one of his instruments.

Apparently the planes 1st radio had stopped working... so we made our way back from the atlantic. Once over Dublin bay he came back on the intercom telling us we have to much fuel. We dropped to 5,000 feet opened the brake flaps to create a drag then realesed the landing gear to further slow us down. So we circled for an hour and a half... that was a rocky ride. The whole thing was just a horrible experience.

Anyone heard of this before? I mean is this a regular emergency landing required...

Su Campu

munchkin_utd wrote: »

UPDATE:
heres an english language version of what happened.

Airbus 'nearly crashed' when pilots fell ill

And here's a non-newspaper (and therefore more reliable) version from Avherald. Still makes for scary reading.

http://avherald.com/h?article=434e753b/0000&opt=0

Strumms

jjgdju74 wrote: »

Just off a Ryanair flight this morning that had 2 make an emergency landing. Dublin to Fuertaventura. We were flying out at 7:20 am So we were in the skies at 7;30. About ten minutes later at 30,000 feet in the sky the plane made a sharp veer to the right and the captain came on the radio telling us there was a problem with one of his instruments.

Apparently the planes 1st radio had stopped working... so we made our way back from the atlantic. Once over Dublin bay he came back on the intercom telling us we have to much fuel. We dropped to 5,000 feet opened the brake flaps to create a drag then realesed the landing gear to further slow us down. So we circled for an hour and a half... that was a rocky ride. The whole thing was just a horrible experience.

Anyone heard of this before? I mean is this a regular emergency landing required...

It would be normal to burn off fuel to avoid the overweight landing by exceeding the aircrafts Maximum Landing Weight or MLW. The methods used such as speed breaks, flaps, gear extention etc would be normal as you say to create more drag and increase the fuel burn. Landing overweight would be a last last resort for a pilot say if an emergency was declared due to smoke in the cockpit or fire or other such event where the crew just need to land asap. The 737's are not equiped with a fuel dump system so the only route open to the crew would have been what you experienced. Not a nice experience at all I'd imagine but the crew would have been following their tried and trusted SOPs and you were in safe hands no doubt.

Tenger

jjgdju74 wrote: »

Just off a Ryanair flight this morning that had to make an emergency landing.....................the captain came on the radio telling us there was a problem with one of his instruments.

Apparently the planes 1st radio had stopped working.............. So we circled for an hour and a half,that was a rocky ride. The whole thing was just a horrible experience.

Anyone heard of this before? I mean is this a regular emergency landing required...

While I appreciate how this could be distressing for you and the rest of the passengers this wold not be seen as an 'emergency landing'. It was a return to base due to tech fault.

The radio was faulty, thus the aircraft is not permitted (under safety regs) to continue onward. (Going to Canaries is over sea for a long period,thus you want full radio comms working)
The aircraft itself was operating fine. From an aircrew point of view this would have been a normal landing. If there was something really wrong with the aircraft then the captain would have landed ASAP. Aircraft can land overweight but it can damage the aircraft,hence he spent 90 minutes burning off fuel. Hopefully they crew made multiple announcements to keep the mood of the passengers calm and relaxed.

A mate had a similar flight about 6 months ago, took off, problem with cockpit instruments, too heavy to land back into Dublin, so they went to Shannon (longer runway to roll on after landing) got the problem sorted after an hour, then flew on to Sicily


On an important point, are you being flown out tomorrow instead?

Jamie2k9

On an important point, are you being flown out tomorrow instead?

The flight was operated earlier today and to say its an emergancy is a little out there. The passengers were not in any danger and the post above sums it up.

On another note will it stop you from flying FR next summer?

murphaph

munchkin_utd wrote: »

But in germany and other more risk averse countries I could see Ryanair getting stung sooner rather than later if these stories keep appearing.

People at home on this forum probably don't realise how much news this made around here. The comments on all the blogs/news pages are all full of cautious Germans saying they'll stop flying with FR because there are simply too many stories appearing in the press.

It's all well and good burying the head in the sand, but the German market must be very important to FR, and they won't be the only ones turning away from FR because of these stories.

Solair

I think at this stage, Ryanair need to move to a new level.
They have been the market disruptive force which has come and and shaken things up.

However, at this stage, they're a well-established brand and what they need to try and do is create an image that gives an impression of slick, reliable, safe, cost-effective efficiency without increasing their costs.

The Germans appreciate the ALDI/Lidl approach

I also think that that will tend to go down better in some markets like Germany.

They sometimes go over-board on the tacky promotions and the aggressive media stances and I think it undermines their image somewhat.

Also, when they're competing with local national carriers and even high-speed rail operators, they can be sure that if they are eating into their markets, that those companies will pull out all the media relations and lobbying stops too.

They are also out-competing companies that local regional governments and national governments have very strong interests in protecting.

The other thing is that a lot of media outlets do not seem to understand how big Ryanair is. It's still sort of assumed to be a small regional up-start. The law of averages and the sheer scale of Ryanair's route network and number of passengers carried means that the airline will have more (in volume terms) incidents than smaller carriers that the media tends to equate to them.

Ryanair need to start pushing their safety record in terms of numbers of passengers carried / incident. Their statistical record on safety is excellent and their fleet is very young and standardised.

Perhaps also invite the press in to see their maintenance procedures. Put some information about them up on their website, some videos, some photos all that stuff.

I think they also need to push the fact that they (and a few others) have opened up parts of Europe that were totally inaccessible under the old flag-carrier airlines. Loads of smaller, regional cities now have direct routes to major European hubs at relatively reasonable prices. That's been a huge game changer for a lot of small and medium cities right across Europe, that were effectively ignored by the national airlines.

I have am not a fan of how Ryanair do lots of things, particularly their labour-relations / employment policies and how they deal with customer complaints. However, I think they have some very positive aspects to their business too.

Strumms

I have am not a fan of how Ryanair do lots of things, particularly their labour-relations / employment policies and how they deal with customer complaints. However, I think they have some very positive aspects to their business too.

I agree 100% with all that. I'd add also that their aggressiveness in how they represent themselves in the media can only alienate large numbers of people too. People of influence also, people who make decisions , governments, agencies and those decision makers in companies who decide how their employees commute. All with the potential to affect Ryanair's profit margin. Using the recent issue of Siemens.. why did Ryanair threaten to sue them publicly instead of say hitting back with their safety record ? It's all very well being aggressive and courting controversy but when the chips are down and things get tough it can come back to bite you on the ass. The old adage of being good to the people on the way up as you might meet them on you way down is always something that holds true regardless the context.

dubdaymo

Ryanair need to start pushing their safety record in terms of numbers of passengers carried / incident.

why did Ryanair threaten to sue them publicly instead of say hitting back with their safety record ?

I dunno, lads. If I was an airline CEO I wouldn't start "boasting" about my safety record. These things can come backatcha.

Most of the people who try to denigrate the airline claim to "have never flown with them and never will" so they are not really qualified to comment. Someone pointed out the other day the poor safety record of Air France with crashes, hundreds of fatalities and other very serious incidents yet I haven't heard that Siemens have put a ban on them. If Ryanair had had similar there'd be worldwide adverse reaction.

bluecode

I doubt if the Ryanair's management is too bothered by all this nonsense. But perhaps they should be. Their arrogant and strident attitude has made enemies in all sorts of places. Their advertising campaigns are deliberately provocative and their customer service is basically poor. Their attitude to their own staff varies from indifferent to actively hostile. MOL makes no secret of his disdain for the pilots and this attitude goes all through the management of the airline who seem to compete to be as obnoxious as O'Leary.

Then there's the penny pinching. That's backfired on them now with these issues. Let's be clear the crews concerned followed the rules and declared an emergency as required. This didn't mean the passengers were in any danger but it ensured there were no unneccessary delays. But the reason it happened is because of Ryanair's policy on tankering fuel. This has given ammunition to the critics. Now any issue no matter how minor is built up as dangerous and the there is growing impression that Ryanair isn't just cavalier with customer service but also with safety. It's a false impression though.

As a result we have posts from the likes of jjgdju74 who seems to think that he was in some danger whereas in fact it once again demonstrates how safely the Ryanair pilots operate. They lost one of their radios so by the rules they turned back. There was no emergency. They could have continued with one radio but if the other failed then there would be a real emergency. A simple example of why airline flying is so safe. The irony of this is that although it demonstrates how safely FR operate. People will see it another way with all this bad publicity.

Ryanair really need to rethink their unpleasant reputation. There is really no need for it and in any case it doesn't cost money to be a bit nice. Also their penny pinching fuel policies. This has now backfired on thme big time.