Has the Harvest Festival finally been adopted by the Roman Catholic Church?

LordSutch

Harvest festivals are of course a longstanding date in the Anglican calendar, they are also one of the main traditions that are (were)? not practised by the RC Church in Ireland, this year however I have heard a rumour that our local RC church will hold its first ever Harvest Festival :eek:

Might this be a one off in one Church'?

super_furry

Would be a great idea. I went to a CoI primary school and joined the Boys Brigade because all my friends were in it. Always loved the Harvest Festivals, there was a real joyous and uplifting element to them.

Festus

LordSutch wrote: »

Harvest festivals are of course a longstanding date in the Anglican calendar, they are also one of the main traditions that are (were)? not practised by the RC Church in Ireland, this year however I have heard a rumour that our local RC church will hold its first ever Harvest Festival :eek:

Might this be a one off in one Church'?

Harvest Festivals were a traditional custom in the Catholic Church until Henry VIII broke with the Church.
The Anglicans developed their own version as a 19th revival, hold their first harvest festival in 1843.
Don't know when the first Catholic harvest festival was held but at a guess it was a long long time ago.

Nothing to worry about.

lmaopml

It's actually very interesting to see the roots of this tradition. In Ireland Lord Sutch it seems to have been celebrated as part of St. Micheal's Day - a day of Thanksgiving, a Goose for family dinner etc. that day then seemed to take on the 'Festival' tone in relation to the Harvest, with the rise - and many times in response to, the Industrial Revolution in the West.

In the liturgical calendar there is a 'Harvest Mass' that is traditionally celebrated too, so that's possibly another contributing factor to the celebration....All these things seemed to combine into 'Harvest Festival' in England, 'Thanksgiving' in America etc. etc.

I wonder if in Ireland we didn't 'do' Harvest Festival because the Industrial Revolution didn't seem to have the same impact here as it did in other countries? Perhaps too there was a 'notion' that it was what 'those Protestants' did - and we decided to have a Barn Dance instead..lol...

Very interesting to see how this festival developed - I think most Parishes have a 'Festival' of some sort or other in Europe, and of course in rural Ireland, but we celebrate them slightly different. I think in Spain they 'bless' the bread and distribute it on St. Micheal's Day. I think it's a fabulous tradition, and something that could be reclaimed in many Parishes in Ireland too.

LordSutch

Festus wrote: »

Nothing to worry about.

Not worried at all Festus, but thrilled for those who have missed out for so long )

I just love Harvest festival services, and we as a family have always gone to two or three at festival time every year since I was a kid, (as long as they dont clash on the same sunday), but I have never ever heard of one being held in a RC Church, until now that is (if the rumour is true)?

Benny_Cake

Can't say I've come across it in Roman Catholic churches, not in Ireland at least.

It may be an idea whose time has come though. With increasing urbanisation, people have never been more disconnected from where their food comes from and an opportunity to give thanks, and to pray for those who provide our food etc can only be a good thing. Actually, this is something that churches across denominations should be doing together.

totus tuus

I went to a Harvest Mass once, there was fruit and vegetable baskets surrounding the Altar, which was distibuted to the poor afterwards.

The modern Roman (Catholic) Missal does contain a 'Harvest Mass', as indeed did the old Tridentine Catholic Missal. So, within the general Catholic tradition, the Harvest Mass was always recognised. But, in the particular case of Ireland, it has never been promoted or availed of.

http://www.augustinians.ie/galway/newsletter/2008/msg-19-10-08.htm

martinedwards

really surprised that in a rural country like Ireland that the harvest festival was a Prod only thing.

I grew up Presbyterian in the country and the world stopped for 6 weeks or so because the evening services were attended by folks from all over..... many folks would have gone to all the churches in the area over the harvest period.

As an Anglican in a a city we've had a harvest celebration even though there is no-one who is a farmer in the congregation. we are thankful for THE harvest, not just OURS....

we don't do the decoration with the fruit & veg and give it to old folks homes etc any more as the home have their menus worked out weeks in advance and it's more hassle than it's worth to accept the gifts

homer911

Post your photos here....

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

LordSutch

Sounds like Harvest Festivals are indeed making appearances outside the Anglican church in recent years, which is nice. Could never understand why it was a Protestant only festival as I was growing up in Ireland.

Baggio1

well i dont know ,, but when i was in school, we ALWAYS had a harvest mass each and every year,, but that was in UK.

perhaps over here they didnt, interesting that its always been part of the feast of ST.Michael The Archangel - also known in meadievil times as "michellmass day" its a day of thanks giving and celebration of the harvest.

his feast day is this saturday 29th of september - gabriel and raphael are also celebrated on this day, but it was always St.Michales own feast day along with may 8th, he always had 2 feast days prior to vatican 2 , when the masons who infiltrated the council made sure he was removed from any mention in the mass (he along with Mary and John The Baptist were always mentioned by name in the confetior in every mass) along with all statues and paintings of him from churches, THEY KNEW he was the great defender of the faith and christians worldwide aswell as being honoured by the jews and also by muslims it seems.

anyway his feast day is saturday and i always go to mass each year for it and celebrate it as it should be,,, but am always dissapointed by the complete lack of mention of his role in human history in the fight against evil... not once have i heard a priest ANYWHERE speak of st.michael in detail and the honour he deserves as God's great champion.

anyway ,,there you go.....

Peregrinus

Hallowe'en effectively functions as a harvest festival. That's why you give away nuts and fruit to people calling to your door - you've got plenty in, because of the time of the year. And you have a festival to cheer yourself against the coming of the dark, cold winter.

LordSutch

Its hardly a Christian festival though.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Its hardly a Christian festival though.

I'll just drop this here.....

lmaopml

homer911 wrote: »

Post your photos here....

Lol, can you imagine a thread chock full of families on a day out at a Parish festival during Summer or Autumn, kids on bouncy castles, and attending cake sales, gathering together, the tent where the oldies dance the tango, and you see young girls and boys dancing together to a bit of music etc. pml..We'd probably end up saying, 'Hey, that's yer man down the road, or even next door :eek:

It's good enough that we celebrate a really cool time of year and tradition in various different ways - but Homer, now really requesting pics is just well....Cool! :cool:

It's a great festival that developed, every Christian no matter whom gives thanks. Thank God for Harvest. Thank God for everything, and everybody.

Peregrinus

LordSutch wrote: »

Its hardly a Christian festival though.

Well, harvest is hardly a Christian event to commemorate. Sure, we all look for the providence of God in all things, and it's particularly easy to see the providence of God in a good harvest. But all agrarian societies celebrate harvest, and European societies were celebrating it before they were Christianized. Christianity simply "stitched it in" to the liturgical calendar, sometime in association with Michaelmas and sometimes in association with All Saints Day. At the Protestant reformation, emerging traditions which were uncomfortable about celebrating saints days at all simply dropped that association, and started celebrating a free-standing harvest festival. Arguably, that's even less Christian than hallowe'en which, for all its pre-Christian inheritance, at least has the tenuous connection with Christian beliefs about the communion of saints.

J C

LordSutch wrote: »

Its hardly a Christian festival though.

(Non-protestant) Harvest Festivals do take place in Ireland (usually in August) ... and many have their roots in paganism - having originated as a celebration of the festival of Lughnasadh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lughnasadh
Various attempts have been made to 'Christianise' them down the years - by, for example, celebrating them on the first Sunday of August or the last Sunday in July - and incorporating a Christian Liturgical dimension to them.
One of the most high-profile of such festivals is the climbing of Croagh Patrick (on the last Sunday of July).

LordSutch

Thanks JC, Peregrinus and the other contributors, I am learning as the thread progresses.

I have only ever been aware of the Anglican C of I Harvest festivals in Ireland down through the decades, and anyone who is an Anglican will know exactly what they are like, with the Church full of fruit and veg, the smell is fantastic along with the Hymns which are very unique to Harvest Sunday which is always held sometime in September 'We plough the fields and scatter' comes to mind. Interesting to hear about variations on the harvest theme though, specially climbing of Croagh Patrick which I would never have connected to the Harvest festival.

J C

LordSutch wrote: »

Thanks JC, Peregrinus and the other contributors, I am learning as the thread progresses.

I have only ever been aware of the Anglican C of I Harvest festivals in Ireland down through the decades, and anyone who is an Anglican will know exactly what they are like, with the Church full of fruit and veg, the smell is fantastic along with the Hymns which are very unique to Harvest Sunday which is always held sometime in September 'We plough the fields and scatter' comes to mind. Interesting to hear about variations on the harvest theme though, specially climbing of Croagh Patrick which I would never have connected to the Harvest festival.

The original pagan festivals were more a celebration of the bounty of nature ... as hunter-gathering (rather than modern tillage methods) was the general means of 'harvesting' in pre-Christian Ireland.

Lucy8080

In China, this week, people are off for 8 days ( 8 days a week , i looooooove ooovve ,oooove you ) soz,, Beatles fan!

It seems strange to me, that, celebrating the bounty of nature is Paganistic, but thanking (your) God for the bounty is not. They both seem to be positions of gratitude rather than self agrandisement.

I guess christianity could get around it on the " Be all things to all men" rule.

Or argue with it, on whatever basis suits the individual christian.

im none the wiser ,either way.

Peregrinus

J C wrote: »

The original pagan festivals were more a celebration of the bounty of nature ... as hunter-gathering (rather than modern tillage methods) was the general means of 'harvesting' in pre-Christian Ireland.

Nah, organised agriculture in Ireland arrived long before Christianity. The mesolethic inhabitants of Ireland were primarily hunter-gatherers, but the neotholic inhabitants were farmers. This transition occurred somewhere between 3900 BC and 3000 BC.

Lucy8080

i forget to mention ,that the Chinese are off for 8 days to celebrate harvest time.

we do seem to like like gratitude ( to nature /god /good fortune) and seem to be able to celebrate it together with good will towards each other and the world around us.

stannis

Lucy8080 wrote: »

i forget to mention ,that the Chinese are off for 8 days to celebrate harvest time.

Which I am currently enjoying as I live in China

J C

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nah, organised agriculture in Ireland arrived long before Christianity. The mesolethic inhabitants of Ireland were primarily hunter-gatherers, but the neotholic inhabitants were farmers. This transition occurred somewhere between 3900 BC and 3000 BC.

I agree that farming was here at an early stage ... but it was primarily livestock farming ... and gathering from the bounty of nature was a primary activity ... during the pagan harvest festivals that were the pre-cursors of the modern ones.

Peregrinus

J C wrote: »

I agree that farming was here at an early stage ... but it was primarily livestock farming ... and gathering from the bounty of nature was a primary activity ... during the pagan harvest festivals that were the pre-cursors of the modern ones.

Not so, I think. The construction of something like Newgrange points strongly to a society which attached great importance to the calendar and the cycle of season, and that suggests that they were very much concerned with sowing and reaping. Besides, livestock farming and tillage go more or less hand-in-hand in a temperate region like Ireland; how else are you going to manage the problem of winter fodder?

Of course, it could be that the major festivals were already established before the transition to agriculture was made, and so reflected hunter-gatherer preoccupations even when society had moved on. But as far as we can tell the transition to agriculture was also marked by a massive cultural change; it's unlikely that those who built Newgrange observed the festivals of their predecessors (and there own culture was in turn comprehensively replaced at a later stage). So the suggestion that Hallowe'en is primarily a hunter-gatherer festival would, I think, be a bit of a stretch.