Thinking of calling off wedding

LegacyUser

So as the title suggests thinking of calling off the wedding..

Due to be married in a couple of months - everything is booked and more or less paid for but issues of late seem to have escalated in our relationship..

2 years ago H2B pretended to be sick from work and "hid" out at his parents so I wouldn't know... We worked through that and he was all very very sorry... so second chance was given...

Now... I'm finding he has debts amounting up all over the place.
A credit card bill of 1600 euro! He was out of work due to the recession so said there was an arragement in place with the bank - he is working with the last 15 months!! Why is it still unpaid? He is blaming the wedding.. why did he not want to tell me so I could pay it? He didn't want to upset me...

Now today in the post (collected from his parents) is a letter stating there are 56 unpaid payments on his loan (which I didn't even know he had!) We are together nearly 10 years! I feel he is a stranger at the moment.

What's worse is he is nearly 40 and has no realisation how this may affect us both... he thinks it's his problem but uh hellooo - we were hoping to go for a mortgage next year now the only way of doing that is if I get it soley in my name!! Obviously his credit rating is going to be shot.

I feel there is no respect - he's just trying to hide things so he doesn't "get in trouble" - how old are we that he feels the need to hide things in an adult relationship!

I have accepted that he is terrible with money so have taken upon to do the finances myself - but how can I sort things he is hiding from me.

So frustrated right now and to be honest feel like calling off the whole wedding. If he is hiding things from me now what hope is there. Perhaps 10years together is it and now it's time to throw the towel in..... Could really do with some advice....

Ellsbells

Do you know what he is spending the money on?

Saying he didn't tell you because it would stress you is a cop out. He has been lying and op you have to ask how healthy the relationship is if he hides from you at his parents. Is it an even relationship in your eyes? He obviously doesn't think so.

I think you should postpone til the parent / child issue and the lies are sorted out. Ye are screwed for a mortgage and I would have to wonder about the maturity of a man who has not made payments for over 5 years???

m'lady

I agree with Ellsbells. He is seriously acting like a child, do you really want to be a mother to a near forty year old?

Some people are not great with money, but 5 years without making a payment is taking the P***. You will live your life constantly bailing him out of financial and otherwise situations because he is not capable of dealing with them himself.

I would seriously postpone the wedding, and look into maybe some sort of financial advice for him, and see where you go from there.

Neyite

I'm of the opinion that you cannot be both a "mother" and a lover to a man, if you begin mammying him or nagging him, its much harder (in my experience) to find him attractive. Yet, its impossible if you are finding out this kind of thing to trust that he is a responsible adult that does not need mammying.

What I would do here is make it crystal clear - leave for a week to think about things separately. Agree that you will have another chat after that in which you will decide if the wedding relationship goes ahead or not. During this time, he has to understand that full disclosure of all his debts /lapsed payments /agreements with the bank need to be discussed, along with proactive steps he is taking (not planning to take) to resolve the issue, such as talking to MABS /Bank manager or whatever.

I'm all for privacy in a relationship, but marriage is a legal binding contract with which you are financially liable for the choices of the other. Therefore, you need to know all the details before you take those vows. Its much better, in my opinion to lose a few thousand on deposits rather than have to spend many times that untangling your finances in a few years because the marriage didnt survive these revealations. Pre-nups are not legally binding in Ireland so thats not even an option.

ongarboy

I also think there are serious problems in this relationship. It's not necessarily the money issues themselves but the lack of communication behind those problems from him to you. The fact he hid a sickie from you is not necessarily a big deal but the fact he went to the lengths of hiding at his parents to disguise it is worrying. Why would he be so afraid to tell his partner of 10 years that he is taking a sickie?

Your OH sounds like someone who cannot handle responsibilites and buries his head in the sand in the hope they go away (56 unpaid payments?). I would also be very concerned about you taking out something as significant as a mortgage if you have doubts about his ability to contribute financially to it (even if the mortgage was in your name).

I would recommend having a very long and serious conversation with him and clearly outline to him that you are having second thoughts about marriage while all these concerns are outstanding. Ask him (or give him a few days to decide) what changes he will make and get unambiguous promises and committment from him and make it clear that if you do not see any evidence of change from him (starting with paying off those missed loan payments) and a good explanation from him of why he is hiding things from you - his life partner - that you will not be able to enter into a marriage with him. Make it clear how this secrecy and lack of trust has really hurt you and you need to see change to be able to marry him in confidence. Hopefully, this will kickstart him into taking radical action.

pab_lowe

Hi there,
I obviously know only what you have written but let me put in a different slant. While his behaviour is of concern, why is he 'hiding', why is he 'afraid of getting into trouble', why does he, in effect, view you as someone to be afraid of. No doubt someone who behaves like this needs to grow up but they can also be facilitated in their behaviour by those close to them. You say you are together for 10 years, if you look back, is there a dominance-submissive element in the relationship, have you noticed, if you are honest with yourself, this behaviour before.
From experience I know that people put up with, ignore, fail to recognise or sometime even enjoy certain traits in their partner. However, people also change and what may once have been endearing may now be annoying or even worse, fatal to the relationship. Where I am going with this is, is it possible that your partner has always been quiet, submissive, unable to broach things with you, bad with money and so on and with a life changing event such as a wedding coming up, these issues are now magnified.
I wish you all the best at whatever you decide but I would recommend quite strongly that you both examine your motives for marriage, your love, trust and respect for each other

LegacyUser

" Do you know what he is spending the money on?"

I honestly don't think he was spending it on anything. I think he was too stretched and couldn't afford it when he wasn't working (He was made redundant after 15 years of working for the same company). I think he just buried his head in the sand about it all and pretended these debts did not exist..

" Why would he be so afraid to tell his partner of 10 years that he is taking a sickie? "

This was so humiliating for me at the time. My father had actually gotten him the job -
put in a good word for him. So who did I find out through that my fiance was out sick... My father in casual conversation. I was mortified! We spent a week apart after this. When asked why he felt the need to lie to me it was a childs answer of " I dunno" or "I wanted the time off and couldn't get it so called in sick so as not to upset you".

We had gone away for a concert... and that was only 1 day required not a full week! I thought we had worked through this nonsense then and the only reason I had agreed to move forward was on a full dislosure basis... Bigger fool me...

Now I will say he also hated the job - not what he was used to. He is now back to what he was doing before being made redundant and does seem happier and more fearful of losing that job as he does like. I'm not excusing his behaviour, personally I would clean toilets if it paid the bills but I understand he did not like it there.

" is there a dominance-submissive element in the relationship, have you noticed, if you are honest with yourself, this behaviour before."

Oh there is absolutely - I would most definitely be the dominant personality (I also have to be). I sort our joint finances and make/prompt the majority of our big decisions.
I have had conversations in the past asking him to take a more dominant role once in a while as it is tiring being the one to always make the decisions but have just accepted that he does have a very submissive personality. He has always been happy to"go with the flow" as such.

This behaviour however is "new" - it seems to have started since he had been made redundant. He had not normally been unable to manage his debts - seemed to have had them all paid in time? Perhaps i'm only noticing it in the past 2 years as this is how long we are living together?

I did a bad thing last night... My frustration got to me and I told his mother... (I know it's a really childish thing to do but I felt incapable in this situation - no matter what I said he seemed to think it not important. My logic was my parents taught me my morals and I was most disappointed when I felt I let them down - also I figured if he was going to act like a child and bury his head in the sand then I would treat him like a child and tell his mother (I said it was a bad thing - but this is my headspace at the moment) )

Out of my "bad thing" I think something may have sunk in. He seemed embarrassed after talking to her... He is going to his parents tonight to have a chat about the whole situation - maybe they can get through to him because I can't!

I think I need time on my own at the moment to figure this all out - so when he goes up tonight i'm going to ask him to stay there for a few nights until I seriously think things through.

My parents had a brutal marraige - it was awful on us and the last thing I want to do now is repeat my parents mistakes.

username123

It would be an act of madness to marry someone who you cannot trust financially.

You cant go for a mortgage solely in your name if you are married. When you are married you form a legal family unit. This means that if you take out a mortgage after marriage and live in the property it is viewed in law as the family home. Both have an equal legal interest in it. Banks know this, so they assess a married couple together.

I would be very very wary about marrying someone with debt. In law you cannot be made liable for his debt incurred before marriage after you are married to him, but as above, it will every affect joint financial borrowing. And just on a practical note, he cannot contribute equally to your lives together if he is in debt, his money will be servicing his debt.

Its difficult for me to understand the mind of an adult who hides his finances from his life partner. Its even more difficult to understand someone who would hide in his parents house and pretend he was at work to his life partner!!

Why would you want to be with someone who behaves this way?

Big Bag of Chips

My friend could have written word for word that post 3 or 4 years ago. Finding credit card bills, discovering loans she knew nothing about, unpaid household bills. The only difference being she was married to him.

Eventually she found out he had a serious gambling problem.. and all the debts and loans led back to there. Gambling to try make back the money that he owed on bills. Losing it, so having to gamble the next bit of money he got. He got further and further into debt and spent his entire time hiding things from her 'to protect her' from how bad it was and hoping to fix it (with a big win) so she'd never have to find out.

It has taken 4 years to get to where they are today, and even as recently as last Christmas he was still telling her things she hadn't known all along.

I don't know if he is gambling or not.. but as I said, word for word is what my friend told me over time.

Don't expect him to admit it straight away. (if that is what is happening). He will blame you, work, recession etc etc...

I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right it is something that can be conquered. It just a case of do you want to?

miec

Hi Op

I know someone who is married to someone who hid debts and pretended they had more money than they did. Into the marriage the person discovered their husband owed a colossal amount of money and that person is paying their loans with no end in sight. I would certaintly hold off the wedding to get to the route of the problem but your h2b is in effect lying to you as well.

Starokan

Your not in a nice position, financial security is a big issue in any relationship and your after finding a serious problem.

Its not an insurmountable problem though, it can be rectified and better find out now and begin to solve the problem before the marriage takes place.

I think you are right and that he did just bury his head in the sand and ignore the issue, it was not clever but sometimes people find themselves under pressure and react the wrong way. If everything is out in the open now perhaps you can find a way forward especially if all the other aspects of the relationship are good

lost123

Hi All,

I've registered at lost123 so I can post more easily.

I just don't know what to do.... After telling me he paid the loan (the one with the 57 missed payments) off when he was made redundant now the story has changed to he "reduced" his payments ... oh and the 57 missed payments was a "mistake" (because banks just send a debt collector after you on a whim!)

I have sent him away tonight and for the foreseeable future to his parents - i'm as the name suggests just "lost"...
Our invitations had just come back and due to go out next week. I'm just distraught at the moment.

Big Bag of Chips

lost123, please ask him about gambling.

The changing stories, the excuses. The blaming you (afraid to tell you), then changing his story to not telling you "to protect you"... lying about bills and repayments. Blaming the banks for mistakes....

It is so so so familiar.

Of course, I don't know whether he is gambling or not. But whether he is or not, maybe going to a GamAnon meeting wouldn't do you any harm. There would be so many others there who have been lied to and deceived by their partners for years. It will at least help you with the "how could I not have known... how could he lie to me for so long" thoughts.

I sincerely wish you well. Whatever happens from now on it's going to be a long tough road for you. Mind yourself.

DangerMouse27

Hi lost.

You seem in such turmoil and if i can, i would like to play Devils advocate for your husband.

I can never imagine that piling up these debts is anything that he set out to do. His work seems to have caused some type of a depression and although some people can use this as an excuse, it is a genuine condition.

Does he enjoy not being good with money? I cant imagine so. Did he ever imagine he would be in a hole so deep that it threatened his very marriage? Never, rubber stamp that, never.

It seems you have two choices.
Firstly, evaluate if you want to help him with whatever he is going through. I cant imagine its gambling. He hasnt seemed aggresive through any of this and has carried more of a sense of malaise. Look into yourself and him and see is there any semblance of the man who asked you to marry him inside.

Secondly, you decide it isnt for you.

You either go deep and help him or cut loose.

He was maybe an eejit in the past but he is your eejit..(that was meant to make you smile a little)

Depression can manifest itself in many ways.

StillWaters

To play devils advocate here, I feel a bit sorry for the man here.

It was incredibly disloyal of you to contact his mother about this issue. The man is almost 40!

I really think if you cannot resolve your own issues without dragging his mother into it that there are huge issues here.

Is he happy in the submissive role? I don't think he is going to change. Not when he has an enabler, and he seems to be surrounded by them, his parents, your dad, and of course his partner.

homerjay2005

assuming the loan is not that big, a credit card bill of 1600 is not exactly a huge fee, considering as you said the wedding is practically paid for.

i think the OP is over reacting here and while there are some issues, i think also needs to look at her own role - why does he appear scared to tell her certain things? is it feer of over reacting like i get here?

it think its clear...he lost his job, he has less money and he ran up a few debts. his pride is probably hurt a little as is understandable and i think the OP didnt support him or understand this.

i actually think the OP is making a much bigger problem out of this and is a tad insecure that she cannot control him like she wishes.

username123

StillWaters wrote: »

It was incredibly disloyal of you to contact his mother about this issue. The man is almost 40!

I dont agree with this. Its only enabling the problem to stay quiet and keep it secret. If it is a gambling issue then the worst thing to do is to hide it and tell no one. If its just a stupidity with money issue then telling his mother does no harm anyway.

But it is a very interesting insight into the relationship. You do seem to view your husband to be as someone who needs parental direction - which is damn strange in an adult of 40!

You agree you hold the dominant role, this will be the way of it for life if you marry him, it may even get worse, he may become even more dependant on you as time passes. Think hard about this, if this is not what you want now is the time to say so.

Do you want a life where you are in charge all the time, the person who pushes for everything, all the while wondering if he is running up hidden debt?

StillWaters

username123 wrote: »

StillWaters wrote: »

It was incredibly disloyal of you to contact his mother about this issue. The man is almost 40!

I dont agree with this. Its only enabling the problem to stay quiet and keep it secret. If it is a gambling issue then the worst thing to do is to hide it and tell no one. If its just a stupidity with money issue then telling his mother does no harm anyway.
?

We have no idea if gambling is at fault here or just an irresponsibility with money. In any case it could have done a lot of harm. I am a grown independent adult near this man's age, and if someone went to my elderly parents with tales, I would be beyond furious.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

username123

StillWaters wrote: »

We have no idea if gambling is at fault here or just an irresponsibility with money. In any case it could have done a lot of harm. I am a grown independent adult near this man's age, and if someone went to my elderly parents with tales, I would be beyond furious.

As would I - and isnt it telling that his fury was not mentioned at all, simply that he seemed embarrassed after he spoke to his mother? And he then arranged to go there to speak to both parents. Not a bit of a mention of fury. What does that tell you? It tells me he doesnt behave like, or expect to be treated like, a responsible adult.

Esoteric_

Telling her fiance's parents may have been disloyal but so was lying about debts and continuing to lie about them afterwards.


OP, I'm NOT suggesting that your partner is a gambling addict. However, my father was one and he used the exact same lines as your partner. 'The unpaid loan letter was a mistake.' You have no idea how often my family and I heard that line. Even now that he is recovering (hasn't gambled in around 15 years), he is still terrible with money and can't control his finances.

At the end of the day, whether you're overly-dominant or not is not the real issue here. If your partner genuinely is afraid to tell you anything, then these problems would have manifested a lot sooner than two years ago. But, like you said, this seems to be since he was made redundant only.

Ultimately, you have to decide if you can be with somebody and not know their financial situation or if they're telling you the truth. Can you afford to financially support him AND pay his debts if things to títs-up? That is what could happen and you need to be prepared for that.

HeyThereDeliah

Telling his mother might be terrible considering his age but its better to have it out in the open now and hopefully ye can work through it.
It seems to me you are shouldering all the responsibility and that's not fair on you everyone needs a partner they can rely on and trust at the moment he is neither of those but with help he can be.
You obviously love him or you would have given up on him. He is not good with money and probably never will. Can you live with this and trust him to be honest where money is concerned?

Distorted

Aside from the debts, which is a serious enough problem on its own, what would concern me more is the dishonesty, lying and secretiveness. Staying off work for a week with no real reason and lying about it and actually going to the trouble of hiding somewhere is such a large, concocted, pre-planned lie for actually quite a small thing. Then hes hidden the debts from you. I'd be wondering what other secrets he had, or what ones he might have in the future once you're married to him.

I think I would call it off. I simply couldn't relax, wondering what lie or secret was going to be revealed next. Fair enough if he comes back to you with sound reassurances that he knows it was wrong and would never do it again, and is an all round good guy who is a really brilliant partner in other respects. Otherwise, I think your life with him is in danger of being a bit of a misery.

From experience, dealing with liars in your personal life is really, really draining. Once they've stepped over that boundary between truth and lying, the lies can become ever more well concocted and difficult to fathom.

LegacyUser

I would end this relationship. He is lying to you about money, about loans he has taken out and you have discovered these things out recently.
He went missing from work for a week and they understood he was out sick.
Meanwhile he was staying in his mother house instead of going to work and you found this out.
You have money saved and you want to get a mortgage on a home in the next 12 months.
Because of his problems you won't be able to do this.
You could be left paying a mortgage on your own along with paying off his bills also.
What happens if you could not work for a period of time/ if you lost your job/ if you had a young family?
At this stage you need to consider the future you could have with this man.