Rate the Feedstuff please..

bbam

I've had calves on a lakeland calf crunch, 18% Protein. And they have been doing well..


We decided to move them on to the next No.2 crunch since they are on good grass, the protein content is lower at 16%


I reviewed both labels once home and a few things stood out that got me thinking..
Both have barley as the primary ingredient..
The first had hulled soy, but the second has soy hulls as the second ingredient. I thought that the hulls were a poorer ingredient, would I be correct..

Looking at the ash content, am I right in saying that this is non digestible so useless?? 7% of a useless ingredient or content??

Since the calves are on bucket licks with minerals, vitamins and trace elements I was wondering would I just be better off buying rolled barley bulk and mixing in soy bean myself... a 5:1 mix would give me 18% protein, less ash and cost less too.. would plan to feed this along with silage through the winter..

moy83

Im no use to you bbam but I think this will be a good thread with the price of bagged stuff this year there is no point throwing money away on stuff without seeing the benefit .
Can these soya hulls/beans be bought in small amonuts and can they be got in normal agri stores or just mills or what

KCTK

moy83 wrote: »

Im no use to you bbam but I think this will be a good thread with the price of bagged stuff this year there is no point throwing money away on stuff without seeing the benefit .
Can these soya hulls/beans be bought in small amonuts and can they be got in normal agri stores or just mills or what

Definately agree this could be an interesting thread, could you mix maize meal (yellow meal) with the barley instead of soya? seems to me alot of us are buying expensive rations by the tonne and half of it is fillers.

bob charles

second label is a much simpler mix and should be cheaper, only about 5% filler considering there are a couple of baddies after molasses. bet the first is expensive for whats actually in it. Whats the difference in price. Your Soya hulls are just in there for fibre something that very important to calves. I presume wheat gluten is wheat distillers. So many strangely named ingredients in formulations nowadays also I presume Soya dehulled extract is Hipro soya, it is, isnt it?


ps. grand bit of decking

bbam

bob charles wrote: »

second label is a much simpler mix and should be cheaper, only about 5% filler considering there are a couple of baddies after molasses. bet the first is expensive for whats actually in it. Whats the difference in price. Your Soya hulls are just in there for fibre something that very important to calves. I presume wheat gluten is wheat distillers. So many strangely named ingredients in formulations nowadays also I presume Soya dehulled extract is Hipro soya, it is, isnt it?


ps. grand bit of decking

Thanks..
Second is about €70 a ton cheaper

What would you think of the simple barley/soy mix for feeding along with average silage..

thanks, the deck is new

bob charles

bbam wrote: »

Thanks..
Second is about €70 a ton cheaper

What would you think of the simple barley/soy mix for feeding along with average silage..

thanks, the deck is new

I wouldnt see any problem, just allot of faffing about. barley and soya straight are going to be expensive aswell though.

blue5000

I think soya bean meal is around 500e a tonne at present, what can dried rolled barley be bought for, 300ish? A 5:1 mix is going to cost 340 (240 + 100). There will be no molasses or minerals in this.

bbam

bob charles wrote: »

I wouldnt see any problem, just allot of faffing about. barley and soya straight are going to be expensive aswell though.

Not too much faffing about for us as I'd only be feeding about 20kg a day anyway..

I reckon at the last prices I got I'd have the mix done for less than €295. But it should be better VALUE as there wouldn't be any fillers to speak off..

A €330 mix which between filler contents and ash could be 10% non digestable from what I can figure out.. (maybe I figuring wrong)
Thats €33 for nothing, and means your paying €330 for 900kg or actuallly €366 a ton for the digestible materials..

A simple barley soybean mix shouldnt have such a level of non digestable material..

If it had 5% non digestible it would be working out at €296.5 for the digestible portion.. So that would be €70 a ton saved on the digestible portion..

Please correct me if I'm over looking something or just plane old rambling on about nothing !!

bob charles

bbam wrote: »

Not too much faffing about for us as I'd only be feeding about 20kg a day anyway..

I reckon at the last prices I got I'd have the mix done for less than €295. But it should be better VALUE as there wouldn't be any fillers to speak off..

A €330 mix which between filler contents and ash could be 10% non digestable from what I can figure out.. (maybe I figuring wrong)
Thats €33 for nothing, and means your paying €330 for 900kg or actuallly €366 a ton for the digestible materials..

A simple barley soybean mix shouldnt have such a level of non digestable material..

If it had 5% non digestible it would be working out at €296.5 for the digestible portion.. So that would be €70 a ton saved on the digestible portion..

Please correct me if I'm over looking something or just plane old rambling on about nothing !!

Over such a small quantity the saving wont be great as a merchant will have you again if your buying bagged soya and barley off of them. it will be costing you around €340 euro a ton doing your own mix, there will be an ash content in straights aswell, its a figure you shouldnt get too hung up on. I think the best advice I can offer is but a good quality ration and try and make savings somewhere else in the system i.e adequate dosing

bbam

bob charles wrote: »

Over such a small quantity the saving wont be great as a merchant will have you again if your buying bagged soya and barley off of them. it will be costing you around €340 euro a ton doing your own mix, there will be an ash content in straights aswell, its a figure you shouldnt get too hung up on. I think the best advice I can offer is but a good quality ration and try and make savings somewhere else in the system i.e adequate dosing

Thanks..Appreciate the advice..
Last week I was quoted for barley and soy bean..
€250 a ton for the barley and €500 for the soy with the soy being in 25kg bags. I worked out a 5:1 mix at €292, exc minerals.

Last question I couldn't find a conclusive answer for, maybe you could help..

Young stock that are still growing over the winter, fed on average silage.
What % protein should I be supplementing with? I'm seeing 18-20% but there's no point feeding extra protein as it can't be stored and will just be excreted and its too expensive for that..

bob charles

bbam wrote: »

Thanks..Appreciate the advice..
Last week I was quoted for barley and soy bean..
€250 a ton for the barley and €500 for the soy with the soy being in 25kg bags. I worked out a 5:1 mix at €292, exc minerals.

Last question I couldn't find a conclusive answer for, maybe you could help..

Young stock that are still growing over the winter, fed on average silage.
What % protein should I be supplementing with? I'm seeing 18-20% but there's no point feeding extra protein as it can't be stored and will just be excreted and its too expensive for that..

dont get too worried about the protein. I would supplement with 16% and see how the animals are doing. Those price for barley and soya sound very keen.

Elbex do a nice little booklet with lots of info.

http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/returns/brp_b_beefbrpmanual7-feeding,growingandfinishingcattleforbetterreturns.pdf

moy83

bob charles wrote: »

dont get too worried about the protein. I would supplement with 16% and see how the animals are doing. Those price for barley and soya sound very keen.

Elbex do a nice little booklet with lots of info.

http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/returns/brp_b_beefbrpmanual7-feeding,growingandfinishingcattleforbetterreturns.pdf

Good reading there bob

bbam

bob charles wrote: »

dont get too worried about the protein. I would supplement with 16% and see how the animals are doing. Those price for barley and soya sound very keen.

Elbex do a nice little booklet with lots of info.

http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/returns/brp_b_beefbrpmanual7-feeding,growingandfinishingcattleforbetterreturns.pdf

Great...
That will give me some reading !!:D

J DEERE

I fed all the weanlings last winter on a barley/soya mix. For every ton I had 850kg Barley to 150kg Soya, roughly 6:1. A small bit of molasses through it to keep dust down. It cost 244tn collected and was working out at 16.5% protein. Minerals weren't included but could be added. I preferred buying bag minerals and shaking it on the meal myself as I was feeding it. That way I knew exactly what they were getting. I found it good feeding and will probably use it again this year. I might bring down the protein to 15% maybe as soya bean is very dear this year. I haven't approached the co-op about a price this year. I'd recommend trying it. You know exactly what your feeding. General 14% and 16% rations tend to have a lot of "fillers" in them

bbam

I have to say I'm very disappointed in the No.2 Lakeland crunch, it's just rubbish.
There is so much dust and sand size particles, I thought maybe it was the first bag but when I opened the second it was as bad. Maybe 40-50% dust.

Calves are none too impressed either and leave the dust behind. I won't have a chance until Saturday but I'm thinking of returning whatever I've unused. I know ingredients are getting expensive but this really does resemble floor sweepings.

flatout11

haven’t priced it in a while but would rapeseed meal not be a cheaper alternative to soya, although the quality of protein wouldn’t match soya it shouldn’t be an issue for young stock

PatQfarmer

Great thread as just working out feeding regime for Spring calves and new Autumn calves for the winter.
Prices all for 25kg bags.
Glanbia 14% nut for weanlings = €335/tonne collected.
Liffey Mills 15% weanling mix = €36/tonne delivered
Red Mills 15% nut = €372 ton delivered.

Glanbia feed has always been good quality. Never fed Red Mills other than to horses, but that is top-quality. But their calf-crunch =€425/tonne delivered:eek:

I found the Liffey Mills mix to be very dusty as well.

Anyone using any of the above with any thoughts?

bbam

Lakeland 15%beef nut, €293 collected bulk.

In previous post I quoted the price of soy bean meal wrong , I went to get it today and he had quoted me an old price before, €18 for a 25kg bag and he's out at the moment. , that's €720 a ton.

More thinking to be done.

Black Smoke

Grennans Super Weanling Crunch collected from local merchant at €324 per ton.
This is the blurb from Grennans website about the contents of the mix. It seems ok to me, and calves mop it up.

From Grennans website
Barley, Wheat & Beans are among the very best ingredients you can feed to young stock. This ration contains generous levels of all three, properly balanced with good protein & fibre sources, alongside a well proven mineral & vitamin package.

This is a high energy ration that will put bone and condition on your weanlings. It has been proven time & again to deliver excellent results and to represent excellent value for money. It should be fed at 2 to 4 kgs /head / day. If carefully managed it can be fed safely up to ad lib levels.

Typical Nutrient Analysis:
Cr. Protein…..16% Starch Content…….25%
Oil……………2.0% Fibre………………..10% Ash…..6%