Are they for Real!!

newmark

http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2012/09/breaking-news-eu-poised-to-ban-electronic-cigarettes.html

I hope it doesn't come down to this and them idiot politicians and bureaucrats see sense, that ecigs are less harmful than tobacco and that they will force the industry onto the black market which will not be good for anyone!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i wonder how far they'll be able to go if they do ban it

like they wont be able to ban ss mesh, fibreglass/silica or nichrome/kanthal

would they be able to make nicotine impossible to import on any strength unless you have some sort of documentation?

and would you still be able to buy atomisers themselves like the bulli or the ngp.. considering weed is illegal but you can still buy bongs all over the place

like.. how exactly will they actually ban anything. they'll be able to stunt the market horribly.. people will have to resort to diy'ing their juices and you wont be able to import ready made cartos and such from china

hopefully enough people will kick up a stink, between now and any actual ban taking place more and more people are going to start using e-cigs.. eventually it'll reach a point where they'll have to take notice

newmark

The whole idea they are even thinking of doing this sucks, there are jobs at risk, people livelihoods, peoples health, etc.

I know I would be straight back onto cigarettes if I couldn't get ecigs or supplies and I'm sure of that but like you say it wouldn't come to that for those knowledgeable as we know enough to be self sufficient.

I feel sorry for the tens or hundreds of thousands more smokers that may have had a chance to get away from tobacco and the people who don't know how to get their hands on nicotine and supplies if they do this.

I hope the ecig community in Europe will pull together and fight this big time if they try it.

krissovo

Group bulk purchase of nicotine base anyone?

If I am honest I cannot blame the politicians, my blame would sit with the e-cig industry. Its amateur! Poor packaging, no warnings, lack of instructions, no real investment into health studies, un- regulated.

Hopefully some threats like this would give it a kick up the backside it urgently needs.

It's one of the reasons I was so impressed with DKS, while still lacking at least the product is well packaged and clearly labeled.

DirtyBollox

If it does go ahead i'd go in for the group buy definitly.


Only reason it would go through is the money factor. like vapefest there was 250-300 EX-Smokers who are no longer paying for cigarettes and are costing the government X amount per week/month/year in the exchequer.

Pure horse**** but its either that or it'll be regulated and the prices will skyrocket.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

krissovo wrote: »

Group bulk purchase of nicotine base anyone?

If I am honest I cannot blame the politicians, my blame would sit with the e-cig industry. Its amateur! Poor packaging, no warnings, lack of instructions, no real investment into health studies, un- regulated.

Hopefully some threats like this would give it a kick up the backside it urgently needs.

It's one of the reasons I was so impressed with DKS, while still lacking at least the product is well packaged and clearly labeled.

labels and such mean **** all though without the regulatory body behind them to make them official. I could do up a nice fancy looking label and box for any old juice I threw together myself and all it would do is make the product appear more professional, says nothing at all about the quality of the juice or its safety


regulation on juices would be a killer though. think of how many great amateur juice makers there are out there, the sites like e-smoke, momandpopvapourshop, pixie juice, etc etc.. just small person operations making juices and there's no way they'd be able to afford whatever prohibitive fees the state would force on them.

dragona

DirtyBollox wrote: »

If it does go ahead i'd go in for the group buy definitly.

Me too - let us hope it doesn't come to that.

newmark

krissovo wrote: »

Group bulk purchase of nicotine base anyone?

If I am honest I cannot blame the politicians, my blame would sit with the e-cig industry. Its amateur! Poor packaging, no warnings, lack of instructions, no real investment into health studies, un- regulated.

Hopefully some threats like this would give it a kick up the backside it urgently needs.

It's one of the reasons I was so impressed with DKS, while still lacking at least the product is well packaged and clearly labeled.

I agree with you for the most part especially regarding labeling, manuals and safety instructions but in it's defense the industry is still fairly young especially here in Ireland.

I don't have a clue about retail legislation and regulations but I think there may already be legislation in place regarding packaging, CE standards for batteries, etc, but a lot of the stuff coming in from China doesn't comply with this from what I can see, though I stand to be corrected on that.

I do know there are some companies like Ovale for instance that have very good information leaflets and safety sheets with their e-liquid for example and I have seen some better manuals as of late with some kits coming out and I know there are lots of companies that do their best to regulate themselves but without direct enforced legislation in place the situation is bound to be the way it is.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is there needs to be more regulation and safety warnings around battery safety, e-liquids safety and equipment safety - components used inside atomisers for example, food grade materials been used and that sort of thing but that is what the EU should be concentrating on and not banning e-cigs outright and taking away a chance for millions of tobacco smokers to get their nicotine in a less harmful way.

I don't understand why they are not looking at it the other way round and looking to ban tobacco. It must be down to the money they are making, for example, there were figures quoted on Vapourtrails.TV in last Thursdays Haze Hour programme which showed that the UK took in 10 billion pound last year in tobacco sales while they only spent 5 billion on healthcare for tobacco related illnesses. In other-wards the UK Government made 5 billion pounds profit from tobacco cigarettes sales last year. With that type of money being made by governments its no wander they may move to ban ecigs as they don't want to be loosing that nest egg especially in these tough economical times.

I do think though that it is too late for them to do this and hopefully the ecig industry will get organised properly and put up a hell of a fight, if they do move to ban them.

artyeva

at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist though i'd like to see what sort of influence 'big tobacco' are wielding behind the scenes on this one. big pharma, big sugar [in the US anyway], big tobacco... ugggh.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i dont see "big tobacco" being too worried about it, if ecigs take off it'll be a lot easier for them to have a huge presence in that market and they wouldn't need to own all that land for growing tobacco leaves

pharma now.. e-cigs are a direct threat to a good chunk of their (bloody useless) products

kiffy

Hardly surprising when you think about it, in my 4 months (plus 3 days ) off the fags I have stopped the fag companies and government tax of almost €1,800. And spent a majority on my vaping gear from the US and UK which the government got SFA in vat. We would have had a better chance of it being left alone if we were still in the Celtic Tiger era, when things were good for all governments, but now they clearly don't care about peoples health but the tax revenue tobacco brings in and e cigs are a major threat to that.

If and when the ban comes in I will do my damned best to stay off the fags just to keep my fag tax out of their kitty and shoot them in the foot.

One point not mentioned in this thread (or I haven't spotted) is there is no mention on the blog about non nicotine products being banned? That would mirror the ban in place in Australia where you can purchase E liquid that doesn't contain nicotine, I would gladly go down that route rather than start smoking again, but it would be easier for me on e cigs than most of you that use mods.

You can't really blame the e cig industry, it's just too small, when did you ever hear of a tobacco company closing for a 2 week holiday and not being able to buy fags until they restart work :eek:, it happens in nearly every internet site here in Ireland and probably the same in the UK.

If the worst comes to the worst and nicotine liquid is banned would you vape non nic liquid????

Neil_Sedaka

Everyone would just import from outside the EU!

*Wanders in off the home page*

Am I missing something? Doesn't it just say they plan to ban the marketing of them? Article seems like drivel to me.

The EU plans to ban the marketing of all nicotine containing products which have not been approved as a medicine. This, of course, includes electronic cigarettes.

*Wanders off again*

mewso

krissovo wrote: »

If I am honest I cannot blame the politicians, my blame would sit with the e-cig industry. Its amateur! Poor packaging, no warnings, lack of instructions, no real investment into health studies, un- regulated.

Thing is it is completely regulated as things stand. Thats what people don't seem to realise. There are rules and regulations regarding the selling of toxic chemicals and most vendors I have used follow these regulations (child proof lids, warnings etc.). If you know of Vendors that don't follow these guidelines then I would recommend you make it known. As to instructions that is certainly something that could be vastly improved on.

With regard to research the e-cig industry as it stands probably can't afford major research but some of the big ones have done studies which I would urge you to check out for yourself. As to the politicians their first response to something like e-cigs should be "lets find out if they really work because maybe many lives could be saved" but the general response seems to be "we don't know if this is safe so lets ban it". It's hard not to think there are other factors like big pharma/tobacco involved here. Pharma because they have a useless (but inoffensive to the tobacco industry) product that makes them a lot of money and tobacco because nrt is no threat to them (5% success rate keeps customers coming back and back). A product with any kind of significant success rate would be a huge threat. Slightly conspiracy ridden thoughts but lets just say I wouldn't be surprised.

Yes the E-Cig industry can do more but the politicians need to live up their responsibility here too.

newmark

Deleted User wrote: »

*Wanders in off the home page*

Am I missing something? Doesn't it just say they plan to ban the marketing of them? Article seems like drivel to me.






*Wanders off again*

It may well turn out to be drivel but when you get people like Professor Michael Siegel confirming that the leaked directive does recommend a ban there may be some truth in it. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.ie/

Then again it may be getting fed out for political reasons, you just never know these days what or who to believe.

kiffy

That last blog article confirmed the question I was worried about, and it seems that only NCP [nicotine-containing products] are to be banned if the story turns out to be true, while that is bad enough as I have always been a 24mg user, I will still be able to buy all the hardware, batteries, Cartomizers, and just about every item I have bought so far with just one major exception, now I will have to use 0mg e liquid. But that to me is not the end of the world; I would rather go cold turkey a few days on zero nic and still keep my vaping habit over using tobacco again.

Though that outcome will not satisfy at lot of people for a few reasons I can think of.

1: many people will go back to tobacco for their nicotine.

2: A lot of websites will be forced to close in the EU due to lack of people prepared to only use 0mg nic liquid, leading to ppl losing their jobs needlessly.

3: The only ones to win are tax collecting bastards who couldn’t give a toss if anyone contracts lung cancer after going back, tobacco companies, and those gits selling their legally allowed nicotine crap.

But still its early days yet and as someone already mentioned if it’s an EU ban there is nothing stopping us importing from China or the USA. I haven’t read anywhere yet about a ban on importing our stuff.

But as a precaution I dusted down one of my Twist’s and found my 30ml bottle of Cherry @ 0mg and have been vaping that all night at work at 4.3 volts, good lot of vapour, but sadly as much TH as the strength in my liquid, but I’ll stick it out and thinking of ordering some 0mg VG liquid for even more vapour, I won’t let them bastards beat me. If I have to go back to mods again and VG @ 0mg then that’s what I’ll do to stay vaping and off tobacco.

Samba

Unfrotunately I won't be the slightest bit surprised if this turns out to be true, I had a feeling this was always going to be on the horizon

kiffy

Hang on here are we not getting carried away with the news of a marketing ban on ecigs.
From what I have read all I can see is that the EU plans to ban the marketing of ecigs and not ban ecigs themselves.

If that is the case and worst scenarios then we are ok (I think) fag’s have a marketing ban, i.e. they can’t be advertised or even be shown, but can still be bought. All it would mean is that all shops and other outlets that openly display (marketing) ecigs would now have to copy the fag’s route and have them out of site. Besides a marketing ban would hardly effect any of us as we buy our stuff online.

If it is just a marketing ban then we should still be able to buy our bits n bobs on the internet from whoever we like (existing suppliers Irish or abroad).

Has anyone come to the same conclusion that I am arriving at or have I missed something major regarding a ban? The main reason for my new optimism is after 27 hours of vaping cherry 0mg with firstly my twist and now my Lavatube I'm am having really serious longings to go to my fridge and stuff my face with food any bloody food, think another term you could call this longing is massive nicotine withdrawal symptoms.

It ain’t as easy as I thought this time yesterday, so somebody cheer me up as I flush out my cherry liquid from my viva nova and stuff it full of lovely 18mg liqua chocolate flavour juice.
Bugger the Green Smoke for now I need a good fix and bloody quick.

stevenmu

kiffy wrote: »

Hang on here are we not getting carried away with the news of a marketing ban on ecigs.
From what I have read all I can see is that the EU plans to ban the marketing of ecigs and not ban ecigs themselves.

It's not totally clear, but it might even be less than that, it reads to me like it might be a ban on marketing ecigs as medical devices. So they could still be marketed as being cheaper than smoking, tasting better than smoking etc, they just couldn't be marketed as a medical device (which may include marketing them as a smoking cessation product).

On balance this is quite possibly a good thing. The volume of evidence really isn't there yet to backup ecigs as medical devices. If they were to be classified as medical devices they would be subject to a lot of expensive testing, sales restrictions and could possibly be summarily banned by groups like the Irish Medicines Board.

Marketing ecigs as medical devices would create a ton of problems and it's probably for the best if they're not anyway, even if this ban doesn't go ahead.

was.deevey

Though that outcome will not satisfy at lot of people for a few reasons I can think of.

It will also make e-cigs a total no-goer for alot of people who may have been interested in going the Vaping route.

Calibos

I should have wanted to give up for health reasons but I didn't. I gave up because of the cost. I can no longer afford nearly 600 euro a month on cigarettes!!

My biggest fear is the apply the same Customs and Excise to e-cig products and juices as tobacco. Remember a bottle of 10ml juice is actually comparable in price to 20 cigarettes until you add the C&E to a pack of fags.

The Eu might not ban me from vaping but they could easily price me out of vaping. I dunno if thats a good thing or not

kiffy

Calibos wrote: »

I should have wanted to give up for health reasons but I didn't. I gave up because of the cost. I can no longer afford nearly 600 euro a month on cigarettes!!

My biggest fear is the apply the same Customs and Excise to e-cig products and juices as tobacco. Remember a bottle of 10ml juice is actually comparable in price to 20 cigarettes until you add the C&E to a pack of fags.

The Eu might not ban me from vaping but they could easily price me out of vaping. I dunno if thats a good thing or not

But if worst comes to worst and it is a total ban on nicotine, what will you do Keith, go cold Turkey and quit nicotine & fags all together or go back to a lower level of buying fags, quiting fags has never worked for me before vaping, (I gave up for health reasons, even though wasn't haven't any problems, fitter now than when I was in my 20's, just wasn't feeling immortal any more. the money saving was a completely unexpected bonus. Plus I couldn't see any government applying the same Customs and Excise to e-cig products and juices as tobacco, as tobacco is proven to kill people where as e-cigs haven't been proven to cause any harmful effects and couldn't be penalised as toughly or classed the same as tobacco, the only thing in common is nicotine.

I don't think I'll buy bulk just in case of a ban, because even those supplies will run out eventually and back to square one again. if non nic juices are not banned and still available I will try that route if possible, if that doesn't work for me SIMPLES I'll just move and live in China and vape myself to death legally

tommy2bad

Worst comes to worst? I think I'll go 0nic and vape in their faces.
TBH at this stage nic isn't the biggest consideration when vaping, the objection I have to this proposal is that when I started it was and will be for someone considering switching.
This idea ISTM is designed to stop alternatives to pharma products in their tracks.
Who pays the piper call the tune and the EU health commission is big pharma bought and sold.

if that doesn't work for me SIMPLES I'll just move and live in China and vape myself to death legally

Good luck with that the Gov in China hate ecigs, it threatens their gov owned cigarette brands.

mikom

Shades of cannabis all over again.

You'll be labelled as criminals shortly for partaking.

tommy2bad

Online petition here;
http://www.petitiononline.com/fr33dom/petition.html
Duno if online petitions are worth the paper their written on but nothing to loose by signing!
Just send some real paper to your MEP too.

krissovo

I like the idea of the petition the only issue i have with it is the fact that it clearly states that EU regulation as it stands is appropiate. Personally i do not agree with the statement, it does need some minor changes that i have already highlighted to be adequate in my opinion.

Edit: I still signed the petition ;-)