Harsher Penalties for those Driving while Using a Mobile Phone

angeline

According to the latest news on the radio, there are to be harsher penalties for those caught driving while using a mobile phone. Disqualification from driving has been suggested.

Supergurrier

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Borderfox

The amount of people using them while driving is huge, bluetooth kit is really cheap and built into a lot of the cars I see people on the handset.

urajoke

It's insane the number of times recently that I have had to do a double take and see people holding mobile phones in cars that have Bluetooth as standard !

Just last weekend I was on the M50 and had to move to the outside lane to pass two middle lane hoggers the tailing one was up the ass of the car in front and she was yapping away on her mobile I then passed the front car he was yapping away and obviously was unaware the car behind was 10ft front his bumper. I actually slowed slightly so I could check if she was being towed she was that close.:mad: Middle lane-tailgating-on mobile phone !!!!!! WTF do these people be thinking.

bazz26

About bloody time. The amount of muppets who can spend thousands on a car but will not spend a few quid on a handsfree bluethooth device is unreal.

Of course it is only good if it is enforced.

Going Forward

What actual statistics have been quoted, bar anecdotally, about the suspected/known rates of accidents involving users of mobile phones?

I see the Gaurds using them regularly whilst driving and they dont seem to be colliding with all and sundry.

Conor Faughnan was on radio earlier claiming that even using a Bluetooth system may cause a deterioration in drivers' concentration levels.

At this rate they may as well call for the removal of passengers from cars in case the driver engages in a conversation which will cause "a collision".

I'm starting to get confused as to the main causes of accidents at this stage-

Is it speeding, drink driving, or being on the phone? All seem to be cited randomly and with given equal weight.

angeline

There are many causes of road traffic accidents. And yes, speeding, drink driving and using a mobile phone can all contribute to being involved in a road traffic collision and killing some innocent party. Should we just allow everyone to speed, drink drive and chat away on their mobiles with one hand on steering wheel while negotiating a roundabout. I have seen lorry drivers do this. Crazy.

Eoin

Going Forward wrote: »

Conor Faughnan was on radio earlier claiming that even using a Bluetooth system may cause a deterioration in drivers' concentration levels.

For once I agree with him. There might be slightly less arsing around with buttons, but there's no way you can concentrate properly while having a conversation with someone who isn't in the car with you so can't tell when to shut up.

Where To

I use Bluetooth all the time while driving, and I have to admit there have been times where I've missed turn offs etc. because of being distracted by the call. But not taking the calls would severely hamper my livelihood, so that's not an option for me.

Being on the road all the time I do believe that one of the biggest dangers on the road is people driving at night with dirty windscreens. I'd love to see something done to address this.

wonski

Eoin wrote: »

For once I agree with him. There might be slightly less arsing around with buttons, but there's no way you can concentrate properly while having a conversation with someone who isn't in the car with you so can't tell when to shut up.

But, at least, you keep your hands on the wheel.
The number of times i see some idiot driving all over the place/slower than should - you name it - with his phone sticked to the ear, is worrying.
Some of them use loudspeaker, and keep it in one hand anyway.

Tbh don't think they will ever introduce a ban for this - hefty fine should be more than enough. With proper enforcement of course.

wonski

Where To wrote: »

I use Bluetooth all the time while driving, and I have to admit there have been times where I've missed turn offs etc. because of being distracted by the call. But not taking the calls would severely hamper my livelihood, so that's not an option for me.

Being on the road all the time I do believe that one of the biggest dangers on the road is people driving at night with dirty windscreens. I'd love to see something done to address this.

I am pretty sure this has been brought as penalty points offence lately. No enforcement is a problem i think.

Anan1

I thought it had been shown time and again that it's the conversation that poses the danger, not the holding of the handset? If this is the case then the law makes no sense.

wonski

Anan1 wrote: »

I thought it had been shown time and again that it's the conversation that poses the danger, not the holding of the handset? If this is the case then the law makes no sense.

I still feel there is a difference between talking to someone with hands on the wheel, and talking to one holding a phone...
I am not an expert, and don't really care about what the studies say to be honest. It makes sense to use hands free/bluetooth rather than holding a phone in your hand while driving.
There are plenty of things that may distract you while driving, even talking to your passenger may cause a loss of concentration. The fact is that most people i see that use the phone are not aware of what is going on around them. It could be because they are to focused to keep their phone in their hands while trying to join the road, or going through roundabout...

My observation really, and i believe there is a reason mobile phones have been banned in most countries i know.

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

I still feel there is a difference between talking to someone with hands on the wheel, and talking to one holding a phone...
I am not an expert, and don't really care about what the studies say to be honest. It makes sense to use hands free/bluetooth rather than holding a phone in your hand while driving.
There are plenty of things that may distract you while driving, even talking to your passenger may cause a loss of concentration. The fact is that most people i see that use the phone are not aware of what is going on around them. It could be because they are to focused to keep their phone in their hands while trying to join the road, or going through roundabout...

My observation really, and i believe there is a reason mobile phones have been banned in most countries i know.

'F*ck the studies, I know in my own heart what should and should not be illegal' is a dangerous road to go down, no? If something cannot at least be proven to be harmful to society then IMO the state has no business banning it.

wonski

Anan1 wrote: »

'F*ck the studies, I know in my own heart what should and should not be illegal' is a dangerous road to go down, no? If something cannot at least be proven to be harmful to society then IMO the state has no business banning it.

To be honest, i thought you were the one talking about conversation itself having bigger impact than holding a phone, based on some researches/studies?
I get your point, if something is not proven, then let it be, but - and there is always a BUT - almost everytime i got behind someone driving a bit slower/waving in-out -it is someone holding a phone. There has to be a reason it's been banned.

I do understand that following this logic, we should ban cigarettes, water bottles, and anything else...and i kid you not - it has been banned in some countries. And i am against it - some rules we like, some we don't.
But the mobile phones ban seems to be accepted, and most drivers appreciate the ban, so there is a reason for it, isn't there?

the_syco

The people on the phones don't seem to check their blinds spots when changing lane. To do so would mean moving the phone from their ear. I've seen a few who don't even indicate, as it seems the hand that is holding the phone is the same side that activated the indicators...

noddyone2

Only a complete knob would use a hand-held phone while driving. Is any conversation so important that: a) you can't pull in to take it, or: b) call back later. Hefty fines and proper enforcement - that's the answer.

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

To be honest, i thought you were the one talking about conversation itself having bigger impact than holding a phone, based on some researches/studies?
I get your point, if something is not proven, then let it be, but - and there is always a BUT - almost everytime i got behind someone driving a bit slower/waving in-out -it is someone holding a phone. There has to be a reason it's been banned.

I do understand that following this logic, we should ban cigarettes, water bottles, and anything else...and i kid you not - it has been banned in some countries. And i am against it - some rules we like, some we don't.
But the mobile phones ban seems to be accepted, and most drivers appreciate the ban, so there is a reason for it, isn't there?

It seems to me (and i'm not an expert) that a case has been made for not being on the phone while driving, as opposed to not holding a phone. I have to agree with you that a large number of sloppy drivers seem to be holding phones, but it might also be for some that holding the phone is a function of their don't-give-a-sh1t attitude rather than the cause of their bad driving. Or that the other sh1tty drivers on bluetooth just don't stand out as much because we can't see the phone. I suppose the point i'm really making is that this whole 'bluetooth is fine but handset is evil' outlook seems to have gained general acceptance without any basis in evidence.

GreeBo

Study on TV last night, its holding the conversation thats the problem. Even with a handsfree kit you are 50% "more distracted" (anticipation, awareness, etc) than without.
Having a conversation with someone in the car is different, as you can stop talking whenever you want and the other person knows whats happening.
Holding a cigarette, water bottle etc is as distracting as changing gears, indicating or doing anything with your hand.
The dangerour distractions are of the mind, not physical ones.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

It seems to me (and i'm not an expert) that a case has been made for not being on the phone while driving, as opposed to not holding a phone. I have to agree with you that a large number of sloppy drivers seem to be holding phones, but it might also be for some that holding the phone is a function of their don't-give-a-sh1t attitude rather than the cause of their bad driving. Or that the other sh1tty drivers on bluetooth just don't stand out as much because we can't see the phone. I suppose the point i'm really making is that this whole 'bluetooth is fine but handset is evil' outlook seems to have gained general acceptance without any basis in evidence.

I guess its a sliding scale. Obviously the safest way to drive would be to be alone, without the radio on or any other distraction, but if you are going to have a distraction then they may as well try and legislate against one that also involves you driving with one hand off the wheel. As much as they might actually be a distraction, they cant stop people listening to the radio or having a conversation with a passenger, which to me is the same bracket as a converstion over hands free.

wonski

GreeBo wrote: »

Study on TV last night, its holding the conversation thats the problem. Even with a handsfree kit you are 50% "more distracted" (anticipation, awareness, etc) than without.
Having a conversation with someone in the car is different, as you can stop talking whenever you want and the other person knows whats happening.
Holding a cigarette, water bottle etc is as distracting as changing gears, indicating or doing anything with your hand.
The dangerour distractions are of the mind, not physical ones.

Don't know what this study was about, 50% more distracted opposed to what?
And how much distracted are you holding your phone and driving your car with one hand only (i hope the right one it is)?

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

I guess its a sliding scale. Obviously the safest way to drive would be to be alone, without the radio on or any other distraction, but if you are going to have a distraction then they may as well try and legislate against one that also involves you driving with one hand off the wheel.

Of course if they sold it like that (rather than pretending that the conversation was the issue) then they'd also have to ban smoking while driving. And maybe manual cars too.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Of course if they sold it like that (rather than pretending that the conversation was the issue) then they'd also have to ban smoking while driving. And maybe manual cars too.

Im inclined to agree about smoking (but thats a whole other debate). I dont agree with the comparion to driving a manual car; taking your hand off the wheel for a couple of seconds to change gear hardly equates to having your hand stuck to the side of your head for an extended period of time while holding a converstaion...

Pete69

Met a guy earlier this week coming the wrong way around the roundabout at junction 8 Kilcock on the M4, while holding his mobil, totally oblivious to his mistake.

People need to wake up and realise that when you are driving, the most important thing is to concentrate on your driving, nothing else matters.

Bluetooth should be a mandatory piece of kit in all new cars, and anyone caught holding / talking or worse still texting etc. while driving should be banned, have their car confiscated and sold, and the proceeds put toward road safety programme's.

As for wheather someone using hands free is safer or not, it certainly won't improve the skills of already bad drivers, but is certainly beneficial to those who need to be contactable while mobil.

MrFrisp

angeline wrote: »

There are many causes of road traffic accidents. And yes, speeding, drink driving and using a mobile phone can all contribute to being involved in a road traffic collision and killing some innocent party. Should we just allow everyone to speed, drink drive and chat away on their mobiles with one hand on steering wheel while negotiating a roundabout. I have seen lorry drivers do this. Crazy.

I have seen Truck drivers with 2 mobiles on the go at the same time.

They have been talking on one phone,while textin on another,,all while driving. :eek:

Unreal.






.

djimi

Pete69 wrote: »

Met a guy earlier this week coming the wrong way around the roundabout at junction 8 Kilcock on the M4, while holding his mobil, totally oblivious to his mistake.

People need to wake up and realise that when you are driving, the most important thing is to concentrate on your driving, nothing else matters.

In fairness in this case I doubt being on the phone had much to do with the problem; nobody in their right mind drives the wrong way around a roundabout by mistake, regardless of what might be distracting them. That guy just needs to be taken off the road period, for the sake of everyones safety...

ofcork

GreeBo wrote: »

Study on TV last night, its holding the conversation thats the problem. Even with a handsfree kit you are 50% "more distracted" (anticipation, awareness, etc) than without.
Having a conversation with someone in the car is different, as you can stop talking whenever you want and the other person knows whats happening.
Holding a cigarette, water bottle etc is as distracting as changing gears, indicating or doing anything with your hand.
The dangerour distractions are of the mind, not physical ones.

If that was the same show i was watching,did anyone see the artic driver having his grub while steering with his knees!

bazzachazza

Pete69 wrote: »

Met a guy earlier this week coming the wrong way around the roundabout at junction 8 Kilcock on the M4, while holding his mobil, totally oblivious to his mistake.

This roundabout is getting seriously dangerous, I have seen three drivers going the wrong way round this roundabout or attempting to, one had had a head on collision with another car and the driver thankfully was being escorted to the back seat of a Garda car.

I think the general attitude in this country is it's alright it will never happen to me I'm too good a driver.

People will only get the idea when it hurts them in the pocket, I would advocate a doubling of the fines at least for all offences.

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

'F*ck the studies, I know in my own heart what should and should not be illegal' is a dangerous road to go down, no? If something cannot at least be proven to be harmful to society then IMO the state has no business banning it.

I'd say theres a big difference in outcome of an emergency situation where someone has both hands on the wheel and one that is holding a phone in one hand. It can only hamper your reaction speed and ability.

dgt

Anan1 wrote: »

'F*ck the studies, I know in my own heart what should and should not be illegal' is a dangerous road to go down, no? If something cannot at least be proven to be harmful to society then IMO the state has no business banning it.

I agree

what I find more dangerous than holding a mobile phone is if you get a sudden itch or a spider crawls up your leg and tickles you. And yes, that's happened to me.

They'd ban sat navs, radios, eating/having a quick sip of water and smoking if they got a chance. Spiders, flys, farting and scratching while they're at it too. Any excuse :rolleyes:

shar01

Doesn't matter if the fine is trebled or even quadrupled... It's enforcement, enforcement, enforcement!

This week alone I saw a bloke shaving with an electric razor (his car interior must be manky), a blond bint texting and a yummy mummy constantly turning around to children in back seat.

Just Jack

angeline wrote: »

According to the latest news on the radio, there are to be harsher penalties for those caught driving while using a mobile phone. Disqualification from driving has been suggested.

If you want to use a phone while driving, get a hands free or bluetooth system.
The number of smart, upmarket cars I see, where the driver is holding the phone to his/her ear is frighting. Just as drink driving became unacceptable, the use of mobiles while driving should be the equally unacceptable.

Going Forward

shar01 wrote: »

Doesn't matter if the fine is trebled or even quadrupled... It's enforcement, enforcement, enforcement!

This week alone I saw a bloke shaving with an electric razor (his car interior must be manky), a blond bint texting and a yummy mummy constantly turning around to children in back seat.

If the Gaurds continue to give bad example how can you ask other drivers to be penalised?

Do they just not bother using a Bluetooth earpiece when driving as an insult to other drivers? Lead by example and all that!

Going Forward

What statistics have been published which show the need to introduce harsher penalties?

OK texting is a no no, as it requires the user to actually look away from the road, but most of us can manage a conversation and drive at the same time.

BTW I use a an earpiece to avoid getting points.

BostonB

I'd say about 50~60% of the cars/buses/trucks I see driving badly, enough to attract my attention, and often avoidance, the driver has a phone in their hand.

In the past week though I saw something new, twice I saw people driving with a small dog on their lap.

shar01

Going Forward wrote: »

If the Gaurds continue to give bad example how can you ask other drivers to be penalised?

Do they just not bother using a Bluetooth earpiece when driving as an insult to other drivers? Lead by example and all that!

I agree and not just by not using the mobile while driving but in all aspects of the rules of the road.

But, let's face it, you're probably more likely to be rear-ended by a distracted member of the public than a guard! (Oooh matron:p)

My weekly commute is 1000 km and it's rare that I see even one garda car in the week.

GreeBo

wonski wrote: »

Don't know what this study was about, 50% more distracted opposed to what?
And how much distracted are you holding your phone and driving your car with one hand only (i hope the right one it is)?

Than driving without trying to hold a telephone conversation.
They ran a simulation driving alone, measure reaction times etc then repeated it while the driver was maintaining a conversation on a phone and compared the results.

Again, holding the phone is not the main distraction anymore than holding the gearstick, holding the conversation is what distracts people. Naturally you will be less physically able to drive if you are holding something, but that just explains people who turn corners and go around roundabouts in a bizarre manner, people having conversations run red lights, hit the back of people etc because they are distracted.

BostonB

Ok theres the distraction element, but you also see people drive erratically specifically because they are driving one handed, they simiply don't have the same control on the wheel, say on a roundabout.

Henry Ford III

GreeBo wrote: »

Than driving without trying to hold a telephone conversation.
They ran a simulation driving alone, measure reaction times etc then repeated it while the driver was maintaining a conversation on a phone and compared the results.

Again, holding the phone is not the main distraction anymore than holding the gearstick, holding the conversation is what distracts people. Naturally you will be less physically able to drive if you are holding something, but that just explains people who turn corners and go around roundabouts in a bizarre manner, people having conversations run red lights, hit the back of people etc because they are distracted.

Fair point but don't drivers talk to their passengers too? Not sure if that's much different to a handsfree mobile call.

_Kaiser_

Eoin wrote: »

For once I agree with him. There might be slightly less arsing around with buttons, but there's no way you can concentrate properly while having a conversation with someone who isn't in the car with you so can't tell when to shut up.

It all depends on the driver really

I've a Bluetooth kit in the car but I guess I just have a way of automatically slotting that call into a lower priority in my mind as I'll sometimes have to ask whoever I'm talking to repeat what they just said because I was watching something on the road (or maybe I just don't be listening to them in the first place )

I also have no problem telling them to shut up for a sec if the situation warrants it (like I'm watching out for a turn, or I'm keeping an eye on some eejit ahead etc)

Can't be just me though is it?

OldmanMondeo

Anyone caught on a phone while driving, should have their phone taken and drove over with their own car.

Iwannahurl

Some interesting papers for those who like the evidence-based approach.

I've only glanced at this stuff, but I get the impression that (a) the evidence is still not conclusive and (b) that the greatest risk lies in "visual-manual" distractions when using a mobile phone, eg reaching for the phone or dialling a number, not with having a phone conversation per se.

http://www.vtti.vt.edu/publications/PDFs/Estimating%20Crash%20Risk.pdf

http://drivingassessment.uiowa.edu/sites/default/files/DA2011/Papers/043_Young.pdf

http://www.civil.utah.edu/~zhou/cell_phone_and_distracted_driver.pdf

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/04/29/aapnews.20120429-4.full?rss=1

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/20872301/reload=0;jsessionid=y00dzdSH85lfk8AHJI3i.24

GreeBo

So that rules out eating, opening windows, drinking adjusting mirrors....lots of basic things that people do in cars?

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Some interesting papers for those who like the evidence-based approach.

I've only glanced at this stuff, but I get the impression that (a) the evidence is still not conclusive and (b) that the greatest risk lies in "visual-manual" distractions when using a mobile phone, eg reaching for the phone or dialling a number, not with having a phone conversation per se.

http://www.vtti.vt.edu/publications/PDFs/Estimating%20Crash%20Risk.pdf

http://drivingassessment.uiowa.edu/sites/default/files/DA2011/Papers/043_Young.pdf

http://www.civil.utah.edu/~zhou/cell_phone_and_distracted_driver.pdf

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/04/29/aapnews.20120429-4.full?rss=1

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/20872301/reload=0;jsessionid=y00dzdSH85lfk8AHJI3i.24

BostonB

GreeBo wrote: »

So that rules out eating, opening windows, drinking adjusting mirrors....lots of basic things that people do in cars?

Yes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/774655.stm

You meant to adjust the mirrors before you set off, not as you drive.

TwoShedsJackson

GreeBo wrote: »

So that rules out eating, opening windows, drinking adjusting mirrors....lots of basic things that people do in cars?

I've been known to open the window in the car while driving (which can be done with a press of one button without even looking at it), but eating, drinking, and adjusting your mirrors while driving is the domain of idiots.

BostonB

Well theres a bit of comon sense involved. If you are driving erratically then you do not have control of vehicle.

Iwannahurl

GreeBo wrote: »

So that rules out eating, opening windows, drinking adjusting mirrors....lots of basic things that people do in cars?

It rules in driving with due care and attention.

And this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX6gZkaHmmY

Viper_JB

I think there should be harsher fines and maybe even double the points, I see at least 2-3 people with phones to their heads on my commute home from work everyday and it's like a 10-15 minute drive on some country roads.

So many times I see someone driving all over the road, accidently swerving onto the wrong side of the roads on blind corners, driving at 80 kph on an empty motorway in the over taking lane and a hell of a lot of the time they have a mobile jammed to their ear. One of the things that really bugs me is where I work I'll often see people get into their car, make a call a proceed to drive, can't wait to finish their convo before driving on :mad:.

Iwannahurl

I posted this in the Roads forum last year:

Iwannahurl wrote: »

M6 somewhere in the midlands a couple of days ago.

As I was about to (legitimately) overtake, the car in front drifted over the white line. Not massively, but enough to make me wonder what the driver was at. Took a quick look and got the impression he was concentrating on something other than his driving. I remarked to my OH that he might actually be texting.

About 5-10 minutes later, just after a toll-booth, the same driver overtook me, then re-entered the left lane much too close to me and without indicating. His brake lights came on briefly and he slowed down significantly.

My first thought was, this geezer is trying to intimidate me or get revenge for some perceived offence.

I overtook him then, and this time my OH had a good look. Sure enough, the guy was driving with his head down, one hand on the wheel and his eyes glued to a mobile phone as he was texting...

dudara

I have recently passed a scary amount of people going 120 kmph on motorways who have eyes down texting. Predominantly female too. WFT is wrong in their heads?

Having said that, at least we're not as bad as the US. I've been pressed up against car doors in fear while the US as the driver checks maps, texts, makes calls. It's so commonplace over there. And they didn't understand why I refused to get back in the car with them.

GreeBo

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

I've been known to open the window in the car while driving (which can be done with a press of one button without even looking at it), but eating, drinking, and adjusting your mirrors while driving is the domain of idiots.

I've been known (in the past I might add) to make calls in the car (which can be done with the press of one button, without even looking at it)
Im sure youd agree that that still doesnt make it safe.

I'm assuming from your reply that you never use the cup holders in your car then? Or change the radio/cd/tape/looked for change approaching a toll/etc etc?

I think someone (barring an idiot actually looking at the phone) can physically hold a phone and be no more distracted than doing any of the examples above. I'm much more worried about people who's minds are on the conversation and not on the road.