Changing from Open Fire to Stove

keith_d99

Hi all,

Looking for tips/advice on changing from Open Fire to Stove (most likely room only - albeit fairly large room).

1. Is efficiency/heat output that much improved?

2. How does the stove compare to open fire effect? Do ye miss it?

3. Is it best to fit with stove pertruding from the fireplace as opposed to inside the fireplace if you know what I mean

4. Is it worth going for stove to heat house solution? I have no plumbing going to the fireplace (have oil heating). I know this would mean a much bigger stove.

Thanks in advance!!
Keith.

paddy147

A stove sends 80% of the heat into the room,where as an open fire sends 80% of the heat and your money out and up the chimney,so a stove will be muich better.

But a stove and its heat for the room will only be as good as the insulation in the room/house.

I got rid of my open fire place and had a Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel insert stove installed.

Brilliant stove and serious heat off of it.

keith_d99

paddy147 wrote: »

A stove sends 80% of the heat into the room,where as an open fire sends 80% of the heat and your money out and up the chimney,so a stove will be muich better.

But a stove and its heat for the room will only be as good as the insulation in the room/house.

I got rid of my open fire place and had a Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel insert stove installed.

Brilliant stove and serious heat off of it.

Thanks for the reply Paddy.
House is a timber frame and only 5 years old - so it's well insulated.
I'm guess Paddy that by going with an insert - that you had to do a lot of work on the fireplace??

paddy147

keith_d99 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Paddy.
House is a timber frame and only 5 years old - so it's well insulated.
I'm guess Paddy that by going with an insert - that you had to do a lot of work on the fireplace??

Bascily it was demolished and rebuilt to fit the Riva 66.

Before and after pictures attached.

paddy147

When I do actually use the stove,I burn logs and briquettes in it.

sasol

paddy147 wrote: »

Bascily it was demolished and rebuilt to fit the Riva 66.

Before and after pictures attached.

I have a new build and I am looking for an 8KW inset stove (contemporary style) - the Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel looks ideal.

You mention that there is serious heat off it - How large is your room ?
My room is 8.5m X 4.5m X 2.5m, so 8kw should be plenty.

Did you use the fan-assisted convection system that can come with the Stovax ? One thing that concerns me, is would the Stovax still heat a large room sufficiently if the convection system was not installed. I don't have any power source near the fire so I would not be using this.


You had to rebuild your fireplace - can the stovax fit into a standard fireplace ?

Thanks!

paddy147

sasol wrote: »

I have a new build and I am looking for an 8KW inset stove (contemporary style) - the Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel looks ideal.

You mention that there is serious heat off it - How large is your room ?
My room is 8.5m X 4.5m X 2.5m, so 8kw should be plenty.

Did you use the fan-assisted convection system that can come with the Stovax ? One thing that concerns me, is would the Stovax still heat a large room sufficiently if the convection system was not installed. I don't have any power source near the fire so I would not be using this.


You had to rebuild your fireplace - can the stovax fit into a standard fireplace ?

Thanks!

My sitting room is 7.5 meters long,5.5 wide and 2.5 high.

The Stovax heats that space very well and it even sends out a nice waft of heat to the kitchen area too,after a little while.No need for the electric fan,unless you really want it....but hats just my opinion.

My fireplace is 16.5 inches deep so the Stovax Riva 66 fits in fine.

Hope this helps.:)


PS-My house is very well insulated throughout,so this greatly aids with heat rentention through out the house and cosyness.

Planet X

paddy147 wrote: »

When I do actually use the stove,I burn logs and briquettes in it.

Paddy, how are the briquettes working out ie. are they cheaper to buy than in Dublin (assuming they're the ones you picked up in Offaly?).

Have a jeep and wouldn't mind going to Offaly if they were significantly cheaper?

Cheers.

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

A stove sends 80% of the heat into the room,where as an open fire sends 80% of the heat and your money out and up the chimney,so a stove will be muich better.

But a stove and its heat for the room will only be as good as the insulation in the room/house.

I got rid of my open fire place and had a Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel insert stove installed.

Brilliant stove and serious heat off of it.

Where can you get an 80% efficient stove? I would really like to see that one.

paddy147

Planet X wrote: »

Paddy, how are the briquettes working out ie. are they cheaper to buy than in Dublin (assuming they're the ones you picked up in Offaly?).

Have a jeep and wouldn't mind going to Offaly if they were significantly cheaper?

Cheers.

400 euro for 184 bales of briquettes.

gctest50

shane0007 wrote: »

Where can you get an 80% efficient stove? I would really like to see that one.

http://mtbest.net/wood_stove.html

http://mtbest.net/cold-air-intake.pdf

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

Where can you get an 80% efficient stove? I would really like to see that one.

There is such a thing called "google"....;)


What ever the hell that is though???????



http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=80%25+efficient+stove&oq=80%25+efficient+stove&gs_l=hp.12..0i8i30l2.2060.2060.0.6022.1.1.0.0.0.0.171.171.0j1.1.0.eesh..0.0...1.2.CGc5C0xqVmk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4a64af4b4ac733b5&biw=1430&bih=659

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

There is such a thing called "google"....;)


What ever the hell that is though???????



http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=80%25+efficient+stove&oq=80%25+efficient+stove&gs_l=hp.12..0i8i30l2.2060.2060.0.6022.1.1.0.0.0.0.171.171.0j1.1.0.eesh..0.0...1.2.CGc5C0xqVmk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4a64af4b4ac733b5&biw=1430&bih=659

I know exactly what google is so you do not have to point that one out. An Australian who estimates his adapted boiler as 80% efficient does not count:

"We estimate that with the long non-vertical flue and cold-air intake the efficiency of our wood stove approaches 80%. This efficiency is nearly 4 times higher than efficiency of the electricity production from fossil fuels such as brown coal !!!"

A manufacturer who also claims an efficiency of 85% for smokeless fuel. Wood burning stoves at 80%. I would like to see test results such as for boilers, i.e. SEDBUK. So it is claimed that a Grant Vortex which is a condensing boiler is 93% and a solid fuel stove is only 8% less efficient. At 86% you are touching on condensing mode so why is there no condensate discharge, no risk of acidic contaminants from the POC's that would destroy a standard efficiency unit.

I am very open to be proven wrong but the claims just do not make sense. Efficiency is calculated on the basis of the energy what is stored within the fuel type, the actual measured energy output of the unit and a direct relationship to the flue gas temperature.

paddy147

Well enjoy "googling" away then and reading all of the links there for you to view.

Im not going to stray off thread title and topic anymore,out of respect for the OP.

Best Regards.

noddyone2

I took out a grant back-boiler 3 years ago and replaced it with a stove, no regrets. Getting the old boiler out was actually the worst bit. the stove heats rads and water and the room its in. It sits on the hearth of the old fireplace. Make sure you get a stove sufficiently big enough to heat all your rads and a bit to spare and that it's multi-fuel It's the best thing I done in years. Also got the extra wall and roof insulation done.

DoneDL

paddy147 wrote: »

A stove sends 80% of the heat into the room,where as an open fire sends 80% of the heat and your money out and up the chimney,so a stove will be muich better.

But a stove and its heat for the room will only be as good as the insulation in the room/house.

I got rid of my open fire place and had a Stovax Riva 66 8kw multi fuel insert stove installed.

Brilliant stove and serious heat off of it.

HETAS.

OPEN FIRES

Simple Open Fire – 37% (Radiation only)

Open Fire Freestanding Convector – 47%
Open Fire Inset Convector – 45% mineral fuel, 43% wood
Open Fire with domestic hot water boiler - 50%
Open Fire with high output boiler – Trapezium or rectangular grate – 63%
Notes. The standard test fuel used for open fires is a reactive smokeless fuel and/or
wood logs as specified in the appropriate BS EN.
Additionally, heat is given out from the appliance by convection and conduction which
provides added heat to that measured in the earlier BS tests on which these minimum
figures are based.

ROOMHEATERS/STOVES

Roomheater without boiler – 65%

Roomheater with boiler – 67%

Note

. The standard test fuel for Roomheaters is an anthracite based briquette and/or

wood logs.
Pellet Fired Stoves without boiler – 70% (at nominal load), 65% (at part load).

Pellet Fired Stove with boiler – 75% (at nominal load), 70% (at part load)

shane0007

Out of respect to the OP, the first question asked was about efficiency. You claimed 80% and all I asked was to provide back up of that statement. I don't need to nor enjoy "googling" away and reading waffle. But if you want to provide a valid link to back your claim I will gladly read and if I am proven wrong, I will absolutely have no problem in admitting so.

shane0007

As per HETAS, the claimed 85% efficiency for their Stockton 5 Midline Stove is not quite 85% but actually 70.49%! That is quite a difference in their claim.

"5 Model: VW-5W (Wood) Stovax Ltd Wood 70.49%"

Joey the lips

Right lads... We get the message that 80% is not achievable... To be honest. i dont think the op cares...

Why do we all insist on taking our slongs out and throwing them on the table...

Life is just too dam short....

On that note... Goodnight.

John mac

1. Is efficiency/heat output that much improved?

2. How does the stove compare to open fire effect? Do ye miss it?

3. Is it best to fit with stove pertruding from the fireplace as opposed to inside the fireplace if you know what I mean

4. Is it worth going for stove to heat house solution? I have no plumbing going to the fireplace (have oil heating). I know this would mean a much bigger stove.

1, Yes.. amazing difference.

2, dont miss open fire, gives the same effect (and you can lean against it )

3, Ours is protruding into the room (on the hearth)

4, I wouldnt think so .

My room is 8 x 5 x 2.4 and gets toasty with even a small fire on.

I have a stanley tara model (non back boiler)

keith_d99

John mac wrote: »

1, Yes.. amazing difference.

2, dont miss open fire, gives the same effect (and you can lean against it )

3, Ours is protruding into the room (on the hearth)

4, I wouldnt think so .

My room is 8 x 5 x 2.4 and gets toasty with even a small fire on.

I have a stanley tara model (non back boiler)

Hi John ... thanks for the reply!

Did you have to do much work to your fireplace in order to accommodate the stove?

keith_d99

I have to say I like the look of this installation ... would mean a bit of work of the fireplace/chimney breast.

Would it be less efficent placed within the fireplace?

Stove Fan

keith_d99 wrote: »

Hi all,

Looking for tips/advice on changing from Open Fire to Stove (most likely room only - albeit fairly large room).

1. Is efficiency/heat output that much improved?

2. How does the stove compare to open fire effect? Do ye miss it?

3. Is it best to fit with stove pertruding from the fireplace as opposed to inside the fireplace if you know what I mean

4. Is it worth going for stove to heat house solution? I have no plumbing going to the fireplace (have oil heating). I know this would mean a much bigger stove.
Thanks in advance!!
Keith.

1, Vastly.

2, No I don't miss it but buy a quality stove with good airwash to keep the glass clean. Some stoves are better than others, Clearview, Woodwarm.

3, It makes no difference providing the stove is a good make and is installed to manufacturers instructions. Ie for a freestanding stove plenty of height above and to the sides of the stove if placed inside an opening.

4, Depends if your plumbing system is suitable. A few quotes would establish this. If your stairs are off the room with stove ie open then the heat would spread upstairs to some degree.

Have a look at www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews by owners.

Also look here for official efficiency fiqures. Just search the manufacturer.
http://www.hetas.co.uk/appliance

Stove Fan:)

druidhill

noddyone2 wrote: »

I took out a grant back-boiler 3 years ago and replaced it with a stove, no regrets. Getting the old boiler out was actually the worst bit. the stove heats rads and water and the room its in. It sits on the hearth of the old fireplace. Make sure you get a stove sufficiently big enough to heat all your rads and a bit to spare and that it's multi-fuel It's the best thing I done in years. Also got the extra wall and roof insulation done.

I am looking into this change over and wondering what extras are required to accomplish this (e.g. can the existing pump be used)?

Also, can any of these stoves burn eco friendly fuels like wood pellets or are they just for the old style (coal, briquettes, peat)?

Thanks

keith_d99

Hi all,

Went to local stove shop to have a look and get some advice.

Looks like stove and boiler is the only way to go for me ... I took away double-doors from my living room into a kitchen from building plans - so a room heating stove might be a bit wasted if it is only heating the room.

At least with a boiler stove - I am also heating approx 10 rads. He gave me a rough price of price of €2500 (installation, new inset in fireplace and a Stratford boiler stove).

I have no piping behind my fireplace, so I need to get a plumber out to see if he can run pipes (and a pump?) to my heating system.

Have no idea of the plumbing job needed .... but would be surprised for the whole job if I had much change from 4k.

paddy147

Does a boiler stove use much more fuel to get a decent enough heat of the rads in a house??

Thanks.



Wouldnt is also be worthwhile to look at extra insulation in the house,seen as you are going to fork out a good few grand for a stove.

Just my 2 cents worth and thoughts

keith_d99

paddy147 wrote: »

Does a boiler stove use much more fuel to get a decent enough heat of the rads in a house??

Thanks.



Wouldnt is also be worthwhile to look at extra insulation in the house,seen as you are going to fork out a good few grand for a stove.

Just my 2 cents worth and thoughts

Not sure Paddy ... on average I am burning 3 bags a coal a month in an open fire anyhow.


Extra insulation? ... yeah you are probably right. The house is only 5 years old so I'm hoping it's fairly well insulated as it is.

Quick chat with the plumber - looks like a need a new cylinder (dual-coil). Will get a detailed quote when he comes out.
The price is rising

paddy147

keith_d99 wrote: »

Not sure Paddy ... on average I am burning 3 bags a coal a month in an open fire anyhow.


Extra insulation? ... yeah you are probably right. The house is only 5 years old so I'm hoping it's fairly well insulated as it is.

Quick chat with the plumber - looks like a need a new cylinder (dual-coil). Will get a detailed quote when he comes out.
The price is rising

Im just throwing this out here,but what about a solar system too..while you are at it.


Stove,insulation and solar and you would be very cosy indeed.


"Short term pain,for long term gain".:)

keith_d99

paddy147 wrote: »

Im just throwing this out here,but what about a solar system too..while you are at it.


Stove,insulation and solar and you would be very cosy indeed.


"Short term pain,for long term gain".:)

The thought had crossed my mind Paddy

Sure I might as well buy an electric car while I'm at it!

paddy147

keith_d99 wrote: »

The thought had crossed my mind Paddy

Sure I might as well buy an electric car while I'm at it!

You wouldnt get very far.:pac::pac::D


Im only saying about the tripple whammy (stove,insulation,solar) from my own experiences of having them.Wintertimes are so cosy and relaxing in the house.Very glad that I did it.

keith_d99

Had the plumber out .... bad news all round I'm afraid - a near on impossible job.

Heating system is closed not vented.
House in timber frame - all pipes in partitions - none in floor.
Even for downstairs rads - water leaves boiler, goes upstairs to come down.

Deciding whether it's worth going for a standalone stove now.
My downstairs isn't open-plan (e.g. no double doors going from living room to kitchen), only door to hall.

Is it worth changing from open fire to stove for 1 room only?

paddy147

keith_d99 wrote: »

Had the plumber out .... bad news all round I'm afraid - a near on impossible job.

Heating system is closed not vented.
House in timber frame - all pipes in partitions - none in floor.
Even for downstairs rads - water leaves boiler, goes upstairs to come down.

Deciding whether it's worth going for a standalone stove now.
My downstairs isn't open-plan (e.g. no double doors going from living room to kitchen), only door to hall.

Is it worth changing from open fire to stove for 1 room only?

Yes its worth it,as most of the heat will go into the room itself and not up and out the chimney.

hot to trot

Paddy , how did you decide between the stovax 55 and 66? the output seems to be the same 2-8kw.

Is it just the size of logs it takes? I have builders in at the moment insulating inside leaf of wall and ceiling and he is going to take out the existing fireplace which I hate. I like your job and wonder what made you decide to choose one model over the other .

the briquettes in your photo,,, are they turf or a wood compound? Do you ever use logs or coal?
thanks

paddy147

hot to trot wrote: »

Paddy , how did you decide between the stovax 55 and 66? the output seems to be the same 2-8kw.

Is it just the size of logs it takes? I have builders in at the moment insulating inside leaf of wall and ceiling and he is going to take out the existing fireplace which I hate. I like your job and wonder what made you decide to choose one model over the other .

the briquettes in your photo,,, are they turf or a wood compound? Do you ever use logs or coal?
thanks

SIZE of Rom/open plan living area and STYLE..I wanted a big stove to heat the open plan living area of my house and also to fill out the fireplace nicely too.


Peat Briquetts and also seasoned burning maple wood and birch trees too,that I aqquired for free from a large tree felling operation.:)


Thinking of trying out BnM Black Diamond Ecoflame coal nuggets in the stove.

My girlfriends father burns them in his open fire and they produce some serious heat.:D

hot to trot

Paddy, you dont have any surround around the stovax 66. Have you had any problem with the plaster cracking or anything ? Im a bit nervous about jut putting it in and sitting against the regular wall of the chimney breast?

paddy147

hot to trot wrote: »

Paddy, you dont have any surround around the stovax 66. Have you had any problem with the plaster cracking or anything ? Im a bit nervous about jut putting it in and sitting against the regular wall of the chimney breast?

Fire board and plaster finish.

The stove has a large square metal frame around it

Not a problem so far in 18 months.