wet or dry

suzycat

Is it better to feed a dog wet or dry food.
We just got a terrier cross so its all new to us.

We feed her a pouch in the morning and same in evening. Is that sufficient??

Thanks

andreac

Is it a puppy? If so then to be honest, no. Those pouches arent great at all. Are they the pedigree ones? If so id move her on to a good quality dry food from the pet shop. Stay away from the likes of Pedigree and Bakers as they are veyr poor quality foods.

Pouches and tinned food are made up of crap meat and mostly water so dont have much nutritional value for dogs so best to feed a complete dry food.

aisher

When our dog was a pup we stuck to the dry food to avoid giving her a tricky stomach but now she is over a year old I mix up a bowl of dry/wet food - she only eats one bowl a day and its mainly in the evening. I feed her Beta dry food and alternate with the wet food - she seems to like the Cesars pouches. She will also eat leftovers but mainly she is fed dog food. Good luck with your pup!

**Vai**

Dry food all the way. Its better for their teeth so will save you money in the long run. Might take a while to get your pup used to it but she'll eat when shes hungry enough.

DBB

suzycat wrote: »

Is it better to feed a dog wet or dry food.
We just got a terrier cross so its all new to us.

We feed her a pouch in the morning and same in evening. Is that sufficient??

Thanks

Hi OP,
The standard pouches and tins of wet food just don't give the nutrition a dog needs, let alone the questionable ingredients that are in it! However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your dog a wet diet if you'd (or she'd!) prefer it. You've just got to get the right ones.
There are a number of commercially prepared wet foods which, unlike your standard tins and pouches, are highly nutritious, digestible, and balanced. Probably the best value on is Naturediet, which can be bought in good pet shops, or better still value-wise, online (try www.zooplus.ie)
A terrier sized dog will eat about three-quarters of a pack per day, and they cost about the same as a tin of bog standard tins or pouches. That can be split into 2 meals per day.
As for dry food, well, there is no rule to say that dogs have to eat it. Indeed, there is mounting evidence that most of it is not that good for dogs long term. The dog food companies have done an incredible job of brainwashing owners, vets, breeders etc that dogs must have dry food, but seriously... How on earth did so many dogs get by, for so many centuries and millennia, without it? To my mind, dogs are unhealthier in a number of respects since it became the fashion to feed dry.

**Vai**

No offence DBB but I think Ill stick with the advice given to me by various vets and common sense. Dry food is obviously better in terms of the dogs teeth and once its nutritional value is good, I dont see why anyone would feed wet food. Certainly wet food only.

fatmammycat

I've switched my guy on to a mostly raw food diet and he's thriving, I also think there is more and more information coming to the fore which suggest a full dry food diet is not beneficial to dogs, with some basic biology (short intestinal tracts) propping the research. I need to read and study more on the subject of course, but it is interesting to do so.

Ziegfeldgirl27

I feed my pets both a meal of wet and dry food every day. I used to feed them an all dry diet but because of this crystals formed in my cats bladder because dry food is so concentrated. So now I use both.

DBB

**Vai** wrote: »

No offence DBB but I think Ill stick with the advice given to me by various vets and common sense. Dry food is obviously better in terms of the dogs teeth and once its nutritional value is good, I dont see why anyone would feed wet food. Certainly wet food only.

No offence taken at all ;-)
However, for the OP's and other reader's sake, I think it's terribly important to point out that vets have no training in nutrition/dog foods. The only instruction they get is from the food company reps which is, needless to say, highly biased!
I've read the research myself (most vets haven't), and can only conclude that dry food is nowhere near what it's cracked up to be by the food companies.
As for keeping the teeth clean, the fresh diet does this better than any other diet because it includes bones. My understanding of it is that it's the process if chewing AND salivation which keeps the teeth clean, and dry food actually doesn't promote enough of either to really be effective as a tooth cleaning method. From personal experience I know so, so many dogs who've been fed dry their whole lives but still have awful teeth! There seems to be a big influence of breed on tooth health too.
Instead, dogs need to be encouraged to chew, lick, dribble etc for longer than just a mealtime via the use of Kong toys, chews such as pig's ears, cow's ears, tripe sticks and other natural chews, or bones, because this is actually keeps the teeth clean.

Irishchick

DBB wrote: »

No offence taken at all ;-)
However, for the OP's and other reader's sake, I think it's terribly important to point out that vets have no training in nutrition/dog foods. The only .

That's completely untrue. Vet's and nurses are both lectured in advanced clinical nutrition.

DBB

Irishchick wrote: »

DBB wrote: »

No offence taken at all ;-)
However, for the OP's and other reader's sake, I think it's terribly important to point out that vets have no training in nutrition/dog foods. The only .

That's completely untrue. Vet's and nurses are both lectured in advanced clinical nutrition.

Perhaps I should clarify what I mean, as I can see how I phrased it might be misinterpreted. It's the vet's knowledge about nutrition vs dog foods that is taught to them by dog food reps. That is why I specifically referred to vets having no training in nutrition/dog food.
I think it goes without saying that vets are trained in nutrition, it's surely a foregone conclusion. But it's how that knowledge is applied is the problem. In other words, vets know that dogs need x, y, z nutrients (let's face it, so do leaving cert biology students), but don't necessarily know how a dog best gets that nutrition, what quantities, interactions between diet and health etc. If they did, then quite frankly I can't understand why or how a vet can recommend a diet that has infinitely higher amounts of cereals and grains, than meat, for a carnivore. Nor indeed can I understand how a vet could tell an owner that feeding meat to a carnivore is bad for it. Yet this happens in vet practices across the country every single day.

planetX

I used to feed dry because it was supposed to be better for teeth. I simply don't believe it anymore, having looked at both my dogs and cats mouths hours after eating and seeing concrete-like remnants of food jammed in their molars.
Homecooked is my dogs preference, with a cupboard full of dry food as back-up.

Blondes have more fun

DBB is right. Vets will just promote the dry food, it is fine to include but healthy human food should also be given. Dry food is def not as good as it is made out to be. If u do some research on the net u will see.

Give bones.

Irishchick

DBB wrote: »

Perhaps I should clarify what I mean, as I can see how I phrased it might be misinterpreted. It's the vet's knowledge about nutrition vs dog foods that is taught to them by dog food reps. That is why I specifically referred to vets having no training in nutrition/dog food.
I think it goes without saying that vets are trained in nutrition, it's surely a foregone conclusion. But it's how that knowledge is applied is the problem. In other words, vets know that dogs need x, y, z nutrients (let's face it, so do leaving cert biology students), but don't necessarily know how a dog best gets that nutrition, what quantities, interactions between diet and health etc. If they did, then quite frankly I can't understand why or how a vet can recommend a diet that has infinitely higher amounts of cereals and grains, than meat, for a carnivore. Nor indeed can I understand how a vet could tell an owner that feeding meat to a carnivore is bad for it. Yet this happens in vet practices across the country every single day.

The idea that vet and nursing students get the same lecturing as leaving cert students is frankly insulting. Vets and nurses are lectured in everything that you have mentioned above.

I don't know any vet who has told their client that feeding their dog meat was bad for them. Don't tar all with the one brush.

DBB

Irishchick wrote: »

The idea that vet and nursing students get the same lecturing as leaving cert students is frankly insulting. Vets and nurses are lectured in everything that you have mentioned above.

I don't know any vet who has told their client that feeding their dog meat was bad for them. Don't tar all with the one brush.

I know what vet students are taught. I used to teach them in their lab work. Many moons ago.
I see and speak to hundreds of dog owners every year, on a professional basis.
I do not exaggerate when I say that to date, 100% of them were advised by their vet to feed their dog dry food. A large chunk of these clients are feeding Hill's Science Plan on veterinary advice. I'll let you go off and look at the nutritional composition and ingredients of this food so that you can see what vets think is appropriate food to feed a carnivore.
0% of these people were advised by their vet to feed a high quality dry food.
0% of these people were advised by their vet to feed meat to their dogs.
100% of these owners were told by their vet that feeding raw bones is dangerous.
Most were told (i'd estimate c.80-90%) were actively told by their vet NOT to feed meat or"human food" by their vet because, they said, it's "bad for them".
So, pardon me if it came across that I was tarring them all with the one brush, it's not something I'd ever mean to do as I know there are always exceptions to the rule, my own vet included. No, let me clarify that I'm not tarring all vets, just, in my experience, around about 80+% of them, on their applied knowledge of canine dietary needs.

**Vai**

DBB wrote: »

No offence taken at all ;-)
However, for the OP's and other reader's sake, I think it's terribly important to point out that vets have no training in nutrition/dog foods. The only instruction they get is from the food company reps which is, needless to say, highly biased!
I've read the research myself (most vets haven't), and can only conclude that dry food is nowhere near what it's cracked up to be by the food companies.
As for keeping the teeth clean, the fresh diet does this better than any other diet because it includes bones. My understanding of it is that it's the process if chewing AND salivation which keeps the teeth clean, and dry food actually doesn't promote enough of either to really be effective as a tooth cleaning method. From personal experience I know so, so many dogs who've been fed dry their whole lives but still have awful teeth! There seems to be a big influence of breed on tooth health too.
Instead, dogs need to be encouraged to chew, lick, dribble etc for longer than just a mealtime via the use of Kong toys, chews such as pig's ears, cow's ears, tripe sticks and other natural chews, or bones, because this is actually keeps the teeth clean.

So you're saying dry food is just as much a contributory factor to plaque and tartar as wet food? I find that hard to believe honestly. What research are you getting this from? From experience, I wouldnt feed my dogs wet food (other than the occasional treat, Im not a monster) based on the liquid stools Ive seen alone. I realise theres more to it than the food but its certainly part of it. I dont see a need for it when they get meat, mince and carrots most days too.

Just on your other posts, I dont buy my food from the vet and they know this, so there would be no point in them bigging it up to me in order to make a few extra quid.

DBB

**Vai** wrote: »

DBB wrote: »

No offence taken at all ;-)
However, for the OP's and other reader's sake, I think it's terribly important to point out that vets have no training in nutrition/dog foods. The only instruction they get is from the food company reps which is, needless to say, highly biased!
I've read the research myself (most vets haven't), and can only conclude that dry food is nowhere near what it's cracked up to be by the food companies.
As for keeping the teeth clean, the fresh diet does this better than any other diet because it includes bones. My understanding of it is that it's the process if chewing AND salivation which keeps the teeth clean, and dry food actually doesn't promote enough of either to really be effective as a tooth cleaning method. From personal experience I know so, so many dogs who've been fed dry their whole lives but still have awful teeth! There seems to be a big influence of breed on tooth health too.
Instead, dogs need to be encouraged to chew, lick, dribble etc for longer than just a mealtime via the use of Kong toys, chews such as pig's ears, cow's ears, tripe sticks and other natural chews, or bones, because this is actually keeps the teeth clean.

So you're saying dry food is just as much a contributory factor to plaque and tartar as wet food? I find that hard to believe honestly. What research are you getting this from? From experience, I wouldnt feed my dogs wet food (other than the occasional treat, Im not a monster) based on the liquid stools Ive seen alone. I realise theres more to it than the food but its certainly part of it. I dont see a need for it when they get meat, mince and carrots most days too.

Just on your other posts, I dont buy my food from the vet and they know this, so there would be no point in them bigging it up to me in order to make a few extra quid.

Your dogs get meat, mince and carrots as well as dry? Great! It'll stand to them! Also, when I talk of wet food, I'm talking about freshly prepared meat, veg etc, or commercial barf-type diets, not tinned stuff from the supermarket... I hope that hasn't caused any confusion.
There is research to show what I've said, if it was anecdotal I'd say it was. It's not the crunch of kibble that keeps teeth clean, it's mainly salivation, brought about by motivation for the food itself, chewing, licking etc, therefore Kongs, dry meat chews and bones are considered to be by far and away the best way of maintaining dental health. Dry food certainly does not promote salivation, and generally the dog doesn't get to chew on it long enough to be much good as a physical cleanser. Plus, from my own experience and as posted by Planetx, dry kibble sticks between the teeth like cement.
In addition, gum disease is rampant in dogs (ironically, Pedigree use thus as a USP for dentastix), one of the reasons is lack of vitamins in the diet, Vit C being really important. The only dogs I personally know that had gum disease related to Vit C deficiency had been fed dry all of their lives, and "top quality" dry at that. The fact that even pedigree state that gum disease in rampant, in this day and age when most dogs are fed dry, is very telling.
I will dig up the research for you later, no time just now. But it is somewhat ironic for me to note that the person who drew my attention to this research was vet Pete Wedderburn!

Ado86

Blondes have more fun wrote: »

it is fine to include but healthy human food should also be given.

Give bones.

Dry dog food is exactly that - it is a food designed for dogs - considering they are carnivores - and humans are omnivores - can't see how the OP thinks a human food would be whats needed by dogs. Diets are formulated and complete, and often appropriate to the life stage of the dog e.g. puppy, senior and will enhance your dogs health by providing them with the right nutrients for their physical status.

And also bones - well help remove some plaque from the teeth - but can also be extremely dangerous, resulting in broken teeth and worse even can end up getting stuck inside your dog and doing a lot of damage. Feel free to give your dog bones if you don't mind spending lots at the vets when they need xrays or even worse an operation to remove the bones !!! :mad: and of course you'll have no pet insurance either - all a conspiracy no doubt.... :eek:

planetX

Ado86 wrote: »

Dry dog food is exactly that - it is a food designed for dogs - considering they are carnivores - and humans are omnivores - can't see how the OP thinks a human food would be whats needed by dogs. Diets are formulated and complete, and often appropriate to the life stage of the dog e.g. puppy, senior and will enhance your dogs health by providing them with the right nutrients for their physical status.

And also bones - well help remove some plaque from the teeth - but can also be extremely dangerous, resulting in broken teeth and worse even can end up getting stuck inside your dog and doing a lot of damage. Feel free to give your dog bones if you don't mind spending lots at the vets when they need xrays or even worse an operation to remove the bones !!! :mad: and of course you'll have no pet insurance either - all a conspiracy no doubt.... :eek:

makes you wonder how they survived before petfood companies;) A huge percent of the dry food is cheap cereal filler.... carnivores?

DBB

Ado, can I invite you to examine the ingredients of any bag of dry food, then explain to me exactly how these foods are appropriate for a carnivore?
Most dry foods have more cereals in them than anything else. Cereals are cheaper than meat, and they make a dog feel full. But they have no nutritive value to the dog. Indeed, many dogs at best only tolerate such an abundance of an alien ingredient in their diet, and many more don't tolerate it at all, making the dog I'll, and consequently making money for vets!
Dry food causes a lot of ill health and behavioural problems, and I think in 20yrs time, people will regret ever using the stuff.
Also, the little bit of meat that's in dry food has been cooked to within an inch of its life, rendering what meat proteins would have been useful to a carnivore in uncooked form, totally alien in this hypercooked form. Dog food companies are not out to do the best for dogs. They're out to make money in an extremely competitive market. The cheaper the ingredients, the greater the profits. And profit is what it's all about.
When "human food" is mentioned, from my perspective in any case, I am talking 70-90% human grade meat and bones, bought in supermarkets. The rest is a small bit of veg or spud. So I think you're misinterpreting what is meant by "human food", which if given as I describe it, is highly appropriate to the carnivorous diet.
As for bones being dangerous, they're not, as long as they're fed raw. I've asked many vets have they had patients who died due to eating bones. The small amount of dogs they knew who had died from eating bones had all eaten cooked bones. Cooked bones are also the tooth-breaking ones.

tk123

Ado86 wrote: »

And also bones - well help remove some plaque from the teeth - but can also be extremely dangerous, resulting in broken teeth and worse even can end up getting stuck inside your dog and doing a lot of damage. Feel free to give your dog bones if you don't mind spending lots at the vets when they need xrays or even worse an operation to remove the bones !!! :mad: and of course you'll have no pet insurance either - all a conspiracy no doubt.... :eek:

Size appropriate RAW bones aren't going to break teeth or get stuck inside a dog. It's not like Pluto swallowing a full bone that he got off Mickey Mouse lol - the dog chews them up and they're broken down.

Anyhoos my dogs teeth are much cleaner since switching him to 'wet food' - ie chicken legs and veg. When I started out I was mincing the chicken so it'd be more gentle on his tummy - he wouldn't have been getting bones at that stage but I could see a difference and other people commented on it too. His back teeth seemed to constantly have dry food stuck in them - I used to brush them lol!:pac:

**Vai**

DBB wrote: »

Your dogs get meat, mince and carrots as well as dry? Great! It'll stand to them! Also, when I talk of wet food, I'm talking about freshly prepared meat, veg etc, or commercial barf-type diets, not tinned stuff from the supermarket... I hope that hasn't caused any confusion.
There is research to show what I've said, if it was anecdotal I'd say it was. It's not the crunch of kibble that keeps teeth clean, it's mainly salivation, brought about by motivation for the food itself, chewing, licking etc, therefore Kongs, dry meat chews and bones are considered to be by far and away the best way of maintaining dental health. Dry food certainly does not promote salivation, and generally the dog doesn't get to chew on it long enough to be much good as a physical cleanser. Plus, from my own experience and as posted by Planetx, dry kibble sticks between the teeth like cement.
In addition, gum disease is rampant in dogs (ironically, Pedigree use thus as a USP for dentastix), one of the reasons is lack of vitamins in the diet, Vit C being really important. The only dogs I personally know that had gum disease related to Vit C deficiency had been fed dry all of their lives, and "top quality" dry at that. The fact that even pedigree state that gum disease in rampant, in this day and age when most dogs are fed dry, is very telling.
I will dig up the research for you later, no time just now. But it is somewhat ironic for me to note that the person who drew my attention to this research was vet Pete Wedderburn!

I did think you were talking about tinned food or pouches as they were mentioned earlier in the thread and I think thats what 99% of people will think when wet food is mentioned. I dont have any experience or much knowledge of barf diets or similar so I cant comment there.

Surely the reason Pedigree would say gum disease is rampant is to sell more Dentastix? Its not like they come out and blame dry food(or any other food for that matter) for the gum disease. Personally I dont rate Dentastix or the like as anything more than a treat. It does the dog no good. A big raw carrot is much more effective and healthy.

I'd love a link to that research if you could. I dont mind being proven wrong if its better for my dogs but I really cant see how wet food would be better. Logically, it doesnt make much sense.

DBB

**Vai** wrote: »

I did think you were talking about tinned food or pouches as they were mentioned earlier in the thread and I think thats what 99% of people will think when wet food is mentioned.

I was basing every reference I made to wet food on my first post, which clarifies that I was not talking about tinned food, but commercially prepared barf-type "wet" diets:

DBB Original Post:
However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your dog a wet diet if you'd (or she'd!) prefer it. You've just got to get the right ones.
There are a number of commercially prepared wet foods which, unlike your standard tins and pouches, are highly nutritious, digestible, and balanced. Probably the best value on is Naturediet, which can be bought in good pet shops, or better still value-wise, online (try www.zooplus.ie)

Surely the reason Pedigree would say gum disease is rampant is to sell more Dentastix? Its not like they come out and blame dry food(or any other food for that matter) for the gum disease. Personally I dont rate Dentastix or the like as anything more than a treat. It does the dog no good. A big raw carrot is much more effective and healthy.

Of course they're trying to sell more. But do you not think that the fact that Pedigree themselves use the USP that X% of dogs suffer from gum disease (is it 60+%, I'll have to wait for the ad to come on again!) suggests that dental health is a huge issue in dogs these days? Why? Most dogs are fed dry nowadays... I think the connection is very strong indeed. Of course they're not going to say why dental health is so poor!
For the record, I'm no fan of Dentastix either.

So you're saying dry food is just as much a contributory factor to plaque and tartar as wet food? I find that hard to believe honestly.

I think we're somewhat at crossed odds here, and you have misinterpeted what I've said in my posts. At no point have I said that "wet food" is better for dental health than dry food, and there is research to show that bog-standard tinned food is not as good for dental health as dry food is. That does indeed make sense.
Link to the above research: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/2021S.full

However, nowhere in this thread did I refer to tinned wet food being anything in relation to dry food in relation to dental health.
Every time I have referred to superior dental health has been in relation to bones, dried meat chews, stuffed Kong toys etc versus dry food. The research shows that dogs who chew on chew-type treats have vastly superior dental health than dogs fed just dry food. Where the non-dry diet comes in, as I referred to it in my opening post (a fresh/barf/home-made diet, take your pick of titles! NOT tinned food), is that it includes bones, and chewing on chunks of fresh meat and dried meat (e.g. pig's ears, cow's ears, pizzles, tripe). For this reason, dogs fed a fresh diet, or indeed dogs given Kong/chew Toys, or indeed dogs that are fed dry but also given the above chew products, have far better dental health than those fed dry.
Links:
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/articles/Nexus07_pub_articletext.pdf

http://www.une.edu.au/ers/staff-profile-doc-folders/wendy-brown/bjone-et-al-ava-2005-dental-paper.pdf

Indeed, there is research to indicate that dry diets specifically formulated as "dental health diets" are more effective at maintaining dental health than "normal" dry food: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11985120?dopt=Abstract

Dental hygiene chew products improve dental health: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10863515?dopt=Abstract
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9520789?dopt=Abstract

You'll like this one! Vegetable dental chews improve dental health:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22416622?dopt=Abstract


The commercially prepared barf-type diet that I referred to, Naturediet and its ilk, contains bone which has been crushed up, which would create at least as good a sloughing effect as even dental-dry food, though I'm basing this on personal observation.

**Vai**

Cheers for the links, Ill have a read when I get a chance. I think we got some wires crossed there alright, I dont think I had seen your first post (or read it properly). Ill be sticking with dry anyway!

Rommie

Well having recently met someone who's four year old bichon had to have almost all of his teeth removed, despite being on Royal canin dry food, I think I can safely say that Dry food does nothing for their teeth. Only one vet has ever been happy to talk about the dry food beyond saying 'feed them this, it's the best thing for them', and as he put it, stand on a piece of kibble and see how easily it's crushed. Now consider the strength of your dog's jaw, there's going to be a lot more pressure than your foot is putting on it. So how on earth can something so easily broken clean their teeth? It doesn't make any sense! Look at breeds like Irish setters; most of them are turning out to be celiacs, so it is extremely difficult to find a dry food that will suit them. Carnivore= animal that eats meat. So why is it so difficult to find dry dog foods with mostly meat in them and no cereals? The pet food companies only exist because they were looking for something to do with all the leftover grains after milling for human consumption. Lo and behold, they decided to use them to create a convenient, easy to feed dry food for dogs. Doesn't mean it's better for them, far as I can see there are a lot of diseases suddenly becoming rampant that most dogs wouldn't have had as little as twenty to thirty years ago.

Binka

Does anyone here think that putting some water in with dry dog food makes any difference from a digestion point of view? Both of my dogs are on dry and the pointer chews every kibble but the lurcher just swallows them whole - they don't touch the sides. I have them on the skinners salmon hypoallergenic food, but give them stag antlers to chew on which they love. They get the odd nylabone too which really makes the teach come up clean. So if i'm using other means to keep their teeth healthy could the food be watered? I just want to make it more palatable.