Tui Shou - stand up no-gi wrestling Finglas October 20th

Niall Keane

ICBA will be adding a Tui Shou event to the Sanshou comp on 20th October (Saturday) In Finglas
Entry: €15 (pay on day)
Weigh in - 10am
Catagories- male & female -60 and every 5kg up to 100kg then open weight

Rules:
Contestants will approach one another at the direction of the referee from opposite ends of the contest area and make hand/arm contact. The contest will begin on the referee's command.
Scoring 1 point will be awarded where a contestant steps outside of the area. 2 points will be awarded for a half fall. 4 points for a full fall and 8 points where a contestant is sent flying out of the area. 1 extra point for good technique may be awarded at the referee’s discretion
Permitted Moves: Contestants may move freely within the contest area. Safe throws, trips, sweeps and locks are permitted.

This is a traditional kung fu format of competition without the risks of injury associated with sanshou, so you will be able to go back to work after the weekend without any black eyes ;-) and enjoy a fun event!

we hope to be seeing what the many Irish Kung Fu schools are capable of martially.

All are welcome.

SaoriseBiker

Niall Keane wrote: »

ICBA will be adding a Tui Shou event to the Sanshou comp on 20th October (Saturday) In Finglas
Entry: €15 (pay on day)
Weigh in - 10am
Catagories- male & female -60 and every 5kg up to 100kg then open weight

Rules:
Contestants will approach one another at the direction of the referee from opposite ends of the contest area and make hand/arm contact. The contest will begin on the referee's command.
Scoring 1 point will be awarded where a contestant steps outside of the area. 2 points will be awarded for a half fall. 4 points for a full fall and 8 points where a contestant is sent flying out of the area. 1 extra point for good technique may be awarded at the referee’s discretion
Permitted Moves: Contestants may move freely within the contest area. Safe throws, trips, sweeps and locks are permitted.

This is a traditional kung fu format of competition without the risks of injury associated with sanshou, so you will be able to go back to work after the weekend without any black eyes ;-) and enjoy a fun event!

we hope to be seeing what the many Irish Kung Fu schools are capable of martially.

All are welcome.

Looks interesting though I don't much about wrestling, mostly BJJ and a few Judo throws when it comes to grappling. I wonder what those trained in Greeco Roman wrestling or MMA will think of it ?

Niall Keane

Well I should think given the recent discussion about "clinch fighting" that it may be of wider interest than just the kung fu community.
Stand up of course forms an important part of many traditional arts, especially those born out of weapons etc. (most Kung fu is)

Most kung fu styles have some version of this in training - ba gua roushou, Hsing Yi tui shou, wing Tsun has chi sau, and although formalised drills exist most systems have a version that amounts to free stand up wrestling.
It is a pillar of sanda skill, you can see it here in use in sanda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCDKabF7YQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Note the thrower remains standing!

Alot of people comment that sanda looks like it is muay Thai with judo which of course is a stupid comment as its base/ delivery system is Chinese kung fu. If you mentioned some Japanese throw name to me or any other sanda fighter we wouldn't know what the hell you we're on about. ;-)

But clearly techniques are similar accross disciplines with stylistic preferences. So I would imagine a good judo / MMA guy should be at home with tui shou, and hopefully find the stand up skill the format seeks to test interesting. Another part of the game!

EnjoyChoke

Niall, can you expand (in 10 pages or less!) on the "safe locks" permitted and whether or not these can finish a fight?

Tom.D.BJJ

Sounds good. My takedowns are poor if i'm honest so this could be a good way to work on them in a competition environment.

Could you post up the rules and round times. I'd definitely enter.

Niall Keane

Most Rules are posted above.

Round times are single 2 minute round, then 1 minute extra with 30 second break of draw, still a draw... 30 second break and sudden death.

No grabs around neck, no head / face attacks.

All arm locks and leg locks etc. permitted. Diliberately smashing a joint is obviously out!

Small joint locks - fingers toes not allowed again common sense.

Sweeps are permitted, but there is a difference between dropping someone with a low kick and a sweep I'm sure we can all recognise that.

You can fireman lift and throw over the shoulders, just not spike an opponent. Just to be aware as I know some wrestling bans this.

The 8pointer is where you throw someone out of the area, where they are completely in the air, and they fall, and you remain on your feet inside area. It's rare enough not to be too concerned about it.

Half fall is where a hand or knee touch ground but you're not totally collapsed.

Full fall is where both hands, both knees or back touches ground.

Push out will have some leeway, ie of your heel moves out a bit in the middle of moving you're not going to be called out. This differs slightly from international rules, but hey, we are more into a good competition rather than a culture of fine detail.
The opponent must push you out so both feet are outside and he must have both feet inside to score. If you drag him out with you then he didn't control the situation so doesnt score. Old school tui shou.

Oh yea, just to reiterate the thread title, it's no-gi so different to shuai Jiao, also in the fact that you do not score if you land on your opponent.

On clothing:
Shorts, loose trousers etc, t-shirt (I suggest sleeveless) body armour is fine too.
Just make sure it's robust or clothing won't last long.

Finger and toe nails must be cut short.

Safety equipment like groin and gum protectors not mandatory but advised.


Each competitor will have a corner and a coloured sash (red or blue), the ref will have corresponding red and blue armbands, which will identify scores

A score count will be kept on the judges table, pointed towards the contest so competitors will be able to know score throughout. (unlike Sanshou)

Think that's everything.

If anyone wants to contact me

sanshou.eire@gmail.com

Or contact ICBA

Niall Keane

Enjoychoke,

Of you manage a standing lock and your opponent cannot escape or MOVE and you hold it for 8 seconds you score 2 points.

Bout begins again after from centre of area.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, out of over a hundred international matches I managed that once, and never saw anyone else do so. Basically the lad refused to go down and of I had forced the throw I would have smashed his elbow and shoulder. So I could have thrown him but at the time didn't know how to do so with out fcuking him up and I'm such a nice guy and all.. ;-)

Which reminds me, although you cannot attack the opponents neck area you can use yours to trap his arms etc against your shoulder if you get me, which opens up more locking possibilities.

Peetrik

Niall Keane wrote: »

Well I should think given the recent discussion about "clinch fighting" that it may be of wider interest than just the kung fu community.

Yeah you're dead right, I would have loved to go along to this just to see how I fared, unfortunately fighting later that day.

I assume the the "no grabs around the neck" still allows thai clinch just without the knees and elbows?

Niall Keane

Peetrik wrote: »

Niall Keane wrote: »

Well I should think given the recent discussion about "clinch fighting" that it may be of wider interest than just the kung fu community.

Yeah you're dead right, I would have loved to go along to this just to see how I fared, unfortunately fighting later that day.

I assume the the "no grabs around the neck" still allows thai clinch just without the knees and elbows?

Can rest on shoulders, but not joined behind neck as to apply leverage pressure on neck, nor can face / head be manipulated.

reganreggie

I fancy a go of this. Is a straigh knock out comp or a round robin type thing? Also is there a striking comp that day too?

Peetrik

Niall Keane wrote: »

Can rest on shoulders, but not joined behind neck as to apply leverage pressure on neck, nor can face / head be manipulated.

Ah I wouldn't stand a chance then, all our clinch training revolves around manipulating the head/neck to either throw or create space to strike to the face, my hip throws are abysmal lol, still would have like a crack at it.

Best of luck with the event!

Niall Keane

Reganreggie

Knockout comp unless only 3 in a weight
BUT we intend to run 3rd 4th place bouts and playoff for those knocked out in first round so everyone has opportunity of getting some mat experience.

Regular male and female Sanshou (IWUF rules) will be running concurrently.

You can enter both and don't worry about rest in between, as people can attest ICBA has both organisational numbers and experience to accommodate such.

Just make sure to put away Sanshou mentality when on tui shou mats, landing a round kick on your wrestling opponents face will probably be frowned upon ;-)

30rock

Would love to have taken part in this but the doing a charity run that day. Is planned to include this in future events?

Is there an age limit like the ShanShou?

James

RoboRat

Would love to have done this but unfortunately busted my knee :-(

reganreggie

Is there an age limit as im pretty old. If there is im ringing joe duffy :’(

Niall Keane

No agists in tui shou, all welcome, though if enough interest arises we will consider an over 45 masters division. That will be optional to enter for those 45+ , and still will be able to enter standard comp categories.

Andrew H

Niall, can you grab the t-shirt or body armour to force the throw?

Niall Keane

Andrew H wrote: »

Niall, can you grab the t-shirt or body armour to force the throw?

Using the clothing to grip fight is prohibited.
You may of course grab the opponents body beneath clothing such as thighs etc. and a certain leeway is given re. Clothing being inadvertently grabbed, hence I warned earlier about wearing robust clothing.
However pulling a competitors t-shirt over his face etc. is an infraction of the rules and would lead to first a warning repeated offences would incur a two point penalty.

Part of the formats aims is to test and develop a practitioners "adherence skills". This is obviously quite useful in Sanshou where 10 ounce gloves are worn.

The traditional idea is encapsulated in the expression "once we have fists, we need nothing else" a grip needs to be released and a fist formed to strike an opponent, so the idea is to keep the fist ready, adhere with forearms etc, and flow seemlessly from wrestling to striking, infact having no seperation.

You do not of course need to keep the hand in fists for the tui shou competition format (though this is used by some styles as an interesting drill) and grabbing limbs, torso etc is perfectly acceptable.

Andrew H

Thanks Niall, im going to give this a go. Im still not sure of the rules but it sounds like some fun.

reganreggie

Hi niall i think i will give both a go. Can you let me know what eqipment is required for both.

Thanks

Niall Keane

reganreggie wrote: »

Hi niall i think i will give both a go. Can you let me know what eqipment is required for both.

Thanks

Apologies for Late reply, was away.

Tuishou: t-shirt etc., shorts, martial arts trousers etc. Groin guards and gum shields optional. Shin / instep guards prohibited.

Sanshou:
Headgear: supplied
Chest Protectors : supplied
Shin Guards: supplied

Athlete must supply own Shorts, gum shield, groin guard. 10 Ounce Gloves (may be supplied), hand wraps (taping is prohibited),

Niall Keane

Entry Forms have been published and issued to clubs. If you haven't received a pack, please email ICBA secretary Paul Moran at
pm@ymaa.ie

Niall Keane

There's been quite a bit of interest for the tui shou accross the board from kung fu, sambo, bjj, judo people, looks like this could be a bit of craic!
Just to remind everyone, it's in Leisureplex, Cardiffsbridge Road Finglas, this Saturday.
Weigh-in is from 9.30 closing at 10am with bouts starting at 10.30am
Good Luck to everyone entering!

Sanshou Weigh-in is same time.

Niall Keane

Minor change:

Weigh-in will begin at 9am instead of 9.30am

Kungfu

30rock wrote: »

Would love to have taken part in this but the doing a charity run that day. Is planned to include this in future events?

Is there an age limit like the ShanShou?

James

Yeah sounds interesting. And open to all styles? Too many so called open to "all styles" tournaments are misadvertised in that regards. They say all styles welcome but when you turn up they expect you to limit your fighting style and to fight their way ie WAKO rules. What are they afraid of? Unfortunately can't make it as I am working. By the way, 30Rock, is that a motorcycle run? If so keep the chrome side up and best of luck.

Clive

Kungfu wrote: »

Yeah sounds interesting. And open to all styles? Too many so called open to "all styles" tournaments are misadvertised in that regards. They say all styles welcome but when you turn up they expect you to limit your fighting style and to fight their way ie WAKO rules.

"All styles" doesn't mean all in - it just means that it's open to any style which wants to compete under that ruleset. I don't think it's misadvertising at all.

Peetrik

As above, thats not the case in this event. The rules have been clearly stated and there should be no confusion on the day.

The very best of luck with the event Niall, regretting I can't attend.

Dogsbody_

how did the wrestling thing go

reganreggie

Dogsbody_ wrote: »

how did the wrestling thing go

I enjoyed it. The rules are a bit awakward but it was a good day out when combined with the striking