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Process of an American becoming an Irish Citizen?
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20-09-2012 2:04am#1Sorry if i posted this in the wrong area but i need to know this since its important. My Girlfriend lives in Indiana in the United States of America and i live in the Rep Of Ireland, Dublin. My Girlfriend wants to move in with me in my house in Dublin but shes afraid she might get deported back to America due to the months shes allowed to stay in the Rep Of Ireland. She wants to apply for irish citizenship either through marriage or the original way and it says she can only live in Rep of Ireland for a certain amount of years in order to qualify for being a Irish Citizen. Does this mean she will get deported back because mostly when you travel abroad you have a certain amount of months untill you can return back to your original country and she doesn't want to go back to America in Indiana she wants to stay here with me. Is there a possible way for her to stay here in Rep of Ireland with me in my house? Will she need to obtain a working visa or something so then we can use that and live together in ireland untill she has the right requirements to become an Irish citizen? If anyone can help me answer this question it would be great!Tagged:0
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If you do it though marriage make sure you do it in the States so you don't have to go though an Irish divorce if it doesn't work out.0
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Procrastastudy wrote: »If you do it though marriage make sure you do it in the States so you don't have to go though an Irish divorce if it doesn't work out.
That's why i placed the other option.
I don't want to rush into marriage because of Irish Citizenship Qualifications is there another way for her to stay with me in my own house in the Rep Of Ireland without her getting deported back to America? Would she have to apply for a working visa over in here in Ireland or is there a certain visa that will let her stay in Rep Of Ireland with me in my house.0 -
Procrastastudy wrote: »If you do it though marriage make sure you do it in the States so you don't have to go though an Irish divorce if it doesn't work out.
In this case, it would be extremely difficult for the OP to get the American divorce recognised in Ireland, as for it to be recognised, one or both parties will have to have been domiciled in the US. This is kind of hard to prove if both parties are living in Ireland.0 -
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What would you suggest would be a good choice?
What were looking for is if she can stay in the Rep Of Ireland for a long time if she moves in with me in my house since im her boyfriend, And she really doesn't want to get deported back to America because she saved up all her money for her passport and one way ticket to move in with me. So would it be necessary to purchase some sort of visa that will let her stay forever in the Rep Of Ireland with me in my house or what would be the case?0 -
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It can be a complicated & frustrating process, & not one that can simply be explained on a forum. You need to do some reading up on the entire process first.
You should start by reading through the following pdf document on Residency Information for Family Members & Partners of Irish Citizens on the Crosscare website which describes quite well the process that you both would have to follow, how to maintain residency for Naturalisation purposes down the line etc.
Also have a look at the 'Join Family' section of the INIS website.
After you've got your head around all the info & requirements do a boards/google search for Stamp 4 & you'll come across more info as regards the ins & outs, hints & tips, other people's experiences, pitfalls etc.
There is a long thread covering your situation over in the Living Abroad Forum here on boards.ie0 -
Cushie Butterfield wrote: »It can be a complicated & frustrating process, & not one that can simply be explained on a forum. You need to do some reading up on the entire process first.
You should start by reading through the following pdf document on Residency Information for Family Members & Partners of Irish Citizens on the Crosscare website which describes quite well the process that you both would have to follow, how to maintain residency for Naturalisation purposes down the line etc.
Also have a look at the 'Join Family' section of the INIS website.
After you've got your head around all the info & requirements do a boards/google search for Stamp 4 & you'll come across more info as regards the ins & outs, hints & tips, other people's experiences, pitfalls etc.
There is a long thread covering your situation over in the Living Abroad Forum here on boards.ie
There is just a common-law partnership visa. Not sure of the rules around it. Would she be interested in pursuing full-time studies? As long as it's least a year's duration she can get the right to remain during that time.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »Sorry if i posted this in the wrong area but i need to know this since its important. My Girlfriend lives in Indiana in the United States of America and i live in the Rep Of Ireland, Dublin. My Girlfriend wants to move in with me in my house in Dublin but shes afraid she might get deported back to America due to the months shes allowed to stay in the Rep Of Ireland. She wants to apply for irish citizenship either through marriage or the original way and it says she can only live in Rep of Ireland for a certain amount of years in order to qualify for being a Irish Citizen. Does this mean she will get deported back because mostly when you travel abroad you have a certain amount of months untill you can return back to your original country and she doesn't want to go back to America in Indiana she wants to stay here with me. Is there a possible way for her to stay here in Rep of Ireland with me in my house? Will she need to obtain a working visa or something so then we can use that and live together in ireland untill she has the right requirements to become an Irish citizen? If anyone can help me answer this question it would be great!
Someone mentioned a common law visa, it's actually a defacto visa,
De Facto Relationships with an Irish National
Non EEA nationals who wish to remain the State and are in a de facto relationship with an Irish National must be in a position to provide evidence of a durable attested relationship of at least 2 years. The following documents must be provided to General Immigration, INIS, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2
Copies of current passports of both parties.
Evidence of finances of both parties
Evidence of relationship of at least 2 years duration (i.e. tenancy agreement, utility bills, bank statements, etc)
Subject to the immigration status of the non EEA national permission to remain may granted. This permission will exempt the non EEA National form work permit condition.
The above is not an exhaustive list, and you may be asked for additional documentation in support of your application
From here, http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278
You will have to show a relationship of at least 2 years, it helps if ye can prove visits to each other.
Other than that if she qualifies (which I doubt) she could apply for a stamp 1 (work permit) or green card. http://www.djei.ie/labour/workpermits/
Other option is stamp 2 student visa.0 -
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Her situation regarding earning money here legally or your ability to maintain her and purchase health insurance for her may also be issues to consider.0
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Procrastastudy wrote: »If you do it though marriage make sure you do it in the States so you don't have to go though an Irish divorce if it doesn't work out.
If it was only that simple, for divorce in Ireland what matters is where either one of the parties is then living at the time of divorce. Just because you get married in another country, it does not follow that Ireland in the future will accept a divorce granted by another country.
So say this person moves to Ireland they marry here, it does not work out she returns to US and applies for divorce, that should be ok.
On the other Hand he goes to America they marry and then move back to Ireland and split up she and he remain in Ireland neither have any intention of leaving, well then any divorce granted in America will more than likely not work in Ireland.0 -
Came across something in the Citizens information guide.
If you are not a citizen of the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland, there are various forms of residence rights (permission to remain) that allow you to live in Ireland. (The European Economic Area consists of the European Union member states, Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein.)
Permission to remain
Permission to remain in Ireland is granted by the Department of Justice and Equality and consists of a special stamp endorsed on your passport. This is usually called a residence stamp. The various types of stamp and their meanings are covered in detail in the Rules section of this document.
If you are granted permission to remain, a Certificate of Registration is endorsed on your passport by the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) or the local Garda registration office - see ‘How to apply’ below.
Depending on the circumstances, members of your family may be able to come to Ireland with you, or to join you when you are here.
Also about the De Facto Recognition i doubt we hardly pass because we have been dating for one year and eight months, We never visited each other in each others state. And this is the first time we are seeing each other in Real life and she want's to move in with me because she saved all her money up for getting her passport and her one way ticket here. But we have been through alot of webcam chatting and sending gifts over to each other.
Im still researching.0 -
Given that you haven't met her yet, how about seeing how things go before worrying about permanent residency here?0
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Given that you haven't met her yet, how about seeing how things go before worrying about permanent residency here?
Dont worry about that me and her went through alot. her father passing away, supporting her through her crysis with family. Alot i hardly doubt we ever will be departed from each other, We both care so much and love each other and she really wants to move in with me in my house in ireland and i want the same. But the problem is if she gets deported back to America she wont have anywhere eles to live because here parents are kicking her out once she reaches 18 and she wont have anywhere eles to live. And it would be a great shame if they denied the fact that were partner's and sent her back to America. Im hoping that some of these solutions will help. And if they dont work i always have plan B,C and D with the help of my other family members such as my uncles or aunts or my sister since she is smart with a master's degree lol. Shes 18 and im 17 we both live with each other parents but my parents will always give me consent to these kinda things because they really want the best for me and my girlfriend and they understand me and her sitation.0 -
Right, my wife is American and I'm Irish. She's applying for citizenship at the moment.
Your GF will be able to enter the country on a 3 month tourist visa (no work allowed), she can leave again before the 3 months and come back immediately. The work around for this is that you take a ryanair flight every 3 months somewhere in europe and she gets another 3 months when she re-enters the country.
Given the age profile of both of you what I would suggest is a student visa for her. That's what my wife ended up getting (after she got sick of coming and going every three months). It allows her to work (certain hours/ jobs) and is probably the best option. Assuming she wants to work her best option is a training role somewhere (my wife trained as an accountant here). That would give her some financial independence and a fall back plan if it went pear shaped with you (not wishing bad luck on you but it's good to have options)
If you can prove that you've been in a relationship for 2 years (i think it's 2 anyway) you can get the common law visa mentioned above. This might be tricky given your ages, they might say it only applies from the age of 18 onwards (I don't know, just speculating).
Hope it all works out.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »Came across something in the Citizens information guide.
If you are not a citizen of the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland, there are various forms of residence rights (permission to remain) that allow you to live in Ireland. (The European Economic Area consists of the European Union member states, Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein.)
Permission to remain
Permission to remain in Ireland is granted by the Department of Justice and Equality and consists of a special stamp endorsed on your passport. This is usually called a residence stamp. The various types of stamp and their meanings are covered in detail in the Rules section of this document.
If you are granted permission to remain, a Certificate of Registration is endorsed on your passport by the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) or the local Garda registration office - see ‘How to apply’ below.
Depending on the circumstances, members of your family may be able to come to Ireland with you, or to join you when you are here.
Also about the De Facto Recognition i doubt we hardly pass because we have been dating for one year and eight months, We never visited each other in each others state. And this is the first time we are seeing each other in Real life and she want's to move in with me because she saved all her money up for getting her passport and her one way ticket here. But we have been through alot of webcam chatting and sending gifts over to each other.
Im still researching.
She is a non visa required national, she is entitled to come on visit visa for upto 90 days. She can not work during that time. If after that time ye want to stay together ye will have been in a relationship for over 2 years, and ye can apply for a permission to remain. It can take upto a year to make decision.0 -
ResearchWill wrote: »She is a non visa required national, she is entitled to come on visit visa for upto 90 days. She can not work during that time. If after that time ye want to stay together ye will have been in a relationship for over 2 years, and ye can apply for a permission to remain. It can take upto a year to make decision.
Thank you for that information that will be great!. Also if all ele's fails my sister told be about an Irish Summer Holiday Visa which she can stay in Rep Of Ireland for a year and then she can apply for the Permission to remain in Ireland.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »Thank you for that information that will be great!. Also if all ele's fails my sister told be about an Irish Summer Holiday Visa which she can stay in Rep Of Ireland for a year and then she can apply for the Permission to remain in Ireland.
Never heard of such a visa, have you any link to info on it.0 -
ResearchWill wrote: »Never heard of such a visa, have you any link to info on it.
Not at the moment. But i heard my sister talking about getting an Irish Holiday working Visa which will enable you to stay in the Rep Of Ireland for a year i believe. I was also thinking i can renew my Girlfriends visa when her year is up so then i can extend it for another year when she's still living in Ireland with me then another renew for another year untill she has the right requirements for citizenship. Im not bothered by the price since its only 100 euro i believe or more.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »Not at the moment. But i heard my sister talking about getting an Irish Holiday working Visa which will enable you to stay in the Rep Of Ireland for a year i believe. I was also thinking i can renew my Girlfriends visa when her year is up so then i can extend it for another year when she's still living in Ireland with me then another renew for another year untill she has the right requirements for citizenship. Im not bothered by the price since its only 100 euro i believe or more.
I would check that out before going down that road to make sure that such visa counts towards citizenship.0 -
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ResearchWill wrote: »I would check that out before going down that road to make sure that such visa counts towards citizenship.
It's not the visa that counts for Irish Citizenship its living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years straight or more, If i can renew her visa whilst shes living in Ireland with me over and over again for her to stay longer in order to get her passed those three years then i might have a much more greater chance being married to her to so she can apply for Irish citizenship Because she would qualify due to her living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years and also being married to me within those years more then two years. All i can rely on now is renewing her visa each time it expires so she can stay for a longer time in the Rep Of Ireland with me. I also contacted the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service about the situation im in. Just seeing what they will say back.0 -
ResearchWill wrote: »If it was only that simple, for divorce in Ireland what matters is where either one of the parties is then living at the time of divorce. Just because you get married in another country, it does not follow that Ireland in the future will accept a divorce granted by another country.
So say this person moves to Ireland they marry here, it does not work out she returns to US and applies for divorce, that should be ok.
On the other Hand he goes to America they marry and then move back to Ireland and split up she and he remain in Ireland neither have any intention of leaving, well then any divorce granted in America will more than likely not work in Ireland.
The divorce laws in this country are a complete and utter joke. This kind of thing needs to change if Ireland is to emerge from the third world theocracy it was a few short years ago.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »It's not the visa that counts for Irish Citizenship its living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years straight or more, If i can renew her visa whilst shes living in Ireland with me over and over again for her to stay longer in order to get her passed those three years then i might have a much more greater chance being married to her to so she can apply for Irish citizenship Because she would qualify due to her living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years and also being married to me within those years more then two years. All i can rely on now is renewing her visa each time it expires so she can stay for a longer time in the Rep Of Ireland with me. I also contacted the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service about the situation im in. Just seeing what they will say back.
As has been said before, she is not a visa required national. She needs permission to remain. The Travel and Work programme, I believe is for college students and requires the production of return flights at the end of 1 year so it may not be available to her now.
The easiest option for her is a student permission although that will cost in terms of college fees especially if she wishes to go to a "proper" college that will gain her a good degree. A de facto relationship application is not likely to be successful in my opinion on account of your respective ages.
She can come here for up to 90 days with no restriction so I would suggest doing this and then exploring your options with an immigration solicitor.0 -
The divorce laws in this country are a complete and utter joke. This kind of thing needs to change if Ireland is to emerge from the third world theocracy it was a few short years ago.
Well Ireland just says if both parties to a marriage are resident and domiciled in Ireland then you have to work by our rules. Ireland requires that two married people be separated 4 out of the previous 5 years and proper provision be made for children and spouses before divorce. My only issue is that it should be as difficult to marry as it is to divorce, for crying out loud its harder to get a driving license than marry and noone needs any license to have children.0 -
blueythebear wrote: »As has been said before, she is not a visa required national. She needs permission to remain. The Travel and Work programme, I believe is for college students and requires the production of return flights at the end of 1 year so it may not be available to her now.
The easiest option for her is a student permission although that will cost in terms of college fees especially if she wishes to go to a "proper" college that will gain her a good degree. A de facto relationship application is not likely to be successful in my opinion on account of your respective ages.
She can come here for up to 90 days with no restriction so I would suggest doing this and then exploring your options with an immigration solicitor.
Right well thanks for your answer ill do research on the Permission to remain so hopefully they will understand and give a good duration for her so she can be a citizen of the Rep Of Ireland i already have the money saved up for her to get her citizenship she just needs to fill in the requirements as in staying in ireland for three years, Or she could do it the easy way by De Facto Recognition when we both get married.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »It's not the visa that counts for Irish Citizenship its living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years straight or more, If i can renew her visa whilst shes living in Ireland with me over and over again for her to stay longer in order to get her passed those three years then i might have a much more greater chance being married to her to so she can apply for Irish citizenship Because she would qualify due to her living in the Rep Of Ireland for three years and also being married to me within those years more then two years. All i can rely on now is renewing her visa each time it expires so she can stay for a longer time in the Rep Of Ireland with me. I also contacted the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service about the situation im in. Just seeing what they will say back.
The 3 years is only if she is married to you otherwise it is 5 years of legal residence, certain stamps do not count towards residency example stamp 2, if a person is resident in Ireland for 7 years on stamp 2 they have no right to citizenship, I fact up until last month all they faced was a deportation order, now they may be qualify for a two year stamp 2 followed by stamp 4.
From the INIS website
Notwithstanding the provisions of section 15, the Minister may, in his or her absolute discretion, grant an application for a certificate of naturalisation to the non-national spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen if satisfied that the applicant—
is of full age,
is of good character,
and that citizen—
(i) are married to each other, have been married to each other for a period of not less than 3 years, and are living together, as attested to by affidavit submitted by the citizen to the Minister in the prescribed form, or
(ii)are civil partners of each other, have been civil partners of each other for a period of not less than 3 years, and are living together, as attested to by affidavit submitted by the citizen to the Minister in the prescribed form,
is, in the case of a spouse, in a marriage recognised under the laws of the State as subsisting,
had, immediately before the date of the application, a period of one year’s continuous residence in the island of Ireland,
had, during the 4 years immediately preceding that period, a total residence in the island of Ireland amounting to 2 years,
So to rely on marriage or vigil partnership ye need to be married for 3 years, so all the time in Ireland before marriage does not count towards that time, it may deepening on the permission count towards the 5 year residency.0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »Right well thanks for your answer ill do research on the Permission to remain so hopefully they will understand and give a good duration for her so she can be a citizen of the Rep Of Ireland i already have the money saved up for her to get her citizenship she just needs to fill in the requirements as in staying in ireland for three years, Or she could do it the easy way by De Facto Recognition when we both get married.
I don't think you understand the situation, your girlfriend can only have a right to reside and work if 1 she has a work permit stamp 1 a study permission stamp 2 a right to reside stamp 3 but not work as a family member who is holding stamp 1,2, or 4, or she has a stamp 4 stamp 4 is granted to non EEA family member of Irish or EEA citizens, recognised refugees humanitarian leave. If you and your girlfriend marry tomorrow in Las Vegas then you can make an application for stamp 4 expect wait upto 12 months. If you and girl friend can show a relationship of two years or more then you can apply for de facto relationship, while of course it is better if that relationship is living together I have seen such stamp 4's granted while not living in same country but evidence needs to be very strong.
If your GF comes in here on some working holiday visa and stays 3 years well I would be surprised if she has any right to citizenship.0 -
ResearchWill wrote: »is of full age,
is of good character,
and that citizen—
(i) are married to each other, have been married to each other for a period of not less than 3 years, and are living together, as attested to by affidavit submitted by the citizen to the Minister in the prescribed form, or
How is she suppose to obey there requirements if there's no way to live together for 3 years in the same household even if were married since she will have a duration amount of time to stay in the country. i really would go by there rules and requirements since i seen them before as in being in a marriage for 3 years and giving evidence of our relationship etc.. paying Financial, Billing evidence of us together etc..
What i don't understand is they want us to be married and stay in the same household together even in the same country aka Ireland but how is it possible since she can only stay in Ireland for 3 months even if were married? it makes me laugh at that fact. Unless im mistaking something here.
I mean look at two of there important rules here for Becoming an Irish citizen through marriage or civil partnership:
You must have been living on the island of Ireland for at least 2 of the 4 years before that year of continuous residence
and
You and your spouse or civil partner must be living together as husband and wife or civil partners in the same household
How can we do that if she has a duration of time in the country before she goes back to America. It makes me wonder.
I mean if she got off the plane i wouldn't mind marring her straight away in a Registry hall or whenever to sign our names down to actually have a chance at Irish Citizenship for her before those 3 months she goes back to America. and after the Irish Citizenship is all out of the way i can re marry her the proper way even if were married0 -
xNightOwlx wrote: »How am i suppose to obey there requirements if there's no way to live together for 3 years in the same household even if were married since she will have a duration amount of time to stay in the country. i really would go by there rules and requirements since i seen them before as in being in a marriage for 3 years and giving evidence of our relationship etc.. paying Financial, Billing evidence of us together etc..
What i don't understand is they want us to be married and stay in the same household together but how is it possible since she can only stay in Ireland for 3 months even if were married? it makes me laugh at that fact. Unless im mistaking something here.
You are very much mistaking something.
I will try and explain it again, first of all forget about citizenship for a while. Then if you marry this girl you can apply for what is called a stamp 4, that is a permission for her to live in Ireland with you, she can work or study or set up her own business. It is usually granted for a set time 1,2 or 3 years. The stamp is actually stamped into her passport and she will get a GNIB card.
If on the other hand ye don't marry, ye may be able to apply for a stamp 4 based on your relationship, it should be at least 2 years in length, better if its living together but not impossible if not, example in a month ye are together 1 year 9 months, she comes over on 90 day visa ye move in together and then together 2 years a application may work.
I went through the other stamps already. Stamp 2 may be of use as she may be able to reside here and limited work and ye can build up time for defacto.
Now we com to citizenship, if a persons is legally resident here on any stamp other than 2 for 5 years they can apply for citizenship.
If a spouse of an Irish citizen married for 3 years resident for 2 out of previous 4 years previous to application then that person can apply.
Contrary to popular belief Ireland is a very difficult country to LEGALY get into and stay in. Stamp 1 hard, stam 2 easy but no rights Stamp 3 associated with 1 and 4 stamp 4 hard.
Do you understand it now.0 -
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ResearchWill wrote: »You are very much mistaking something.
I will try and explain it again, first of all forget about citizenship for a while. Then if you marry this girl you can apply for what is called a stamp 4, that is a permission for her to live in Ireland with you, she can work or study or set up her own business. It is usually granted for a set time 1,2 or 3 years. The stamp is actually stamped into her passport and she will get a GNIB card.
Ah that's great news i like to hear. I have another question me and my girlfriend would like to get married tho when she comes to ireland after a few days etc.. signing our names down in a registry hall would it be possible for her to apply for the Stamp 4 when were married or does she have to go through all the stamps etc Stamp 1,2,3,4. And what are the requirements for Stamp 4 is it just being married? Sorry i just want to have a really good understanding im sorry if i have been a pain to you, you have been a really really great help.0
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