Irish 7s team

iv always wondered why we don't have a 7s team in this country with 7s in the next olympics its raised the question for me again. maybe this has been asked up here before or maybe theres an obvious reason but i don't see it. theres more interest in 15 man rugby than theres ever been and the provinces seem to be producing a heap of talented backs at the moment.

so the question is why dont we have one?

Ciaran-Irl

Amia Freezing Strap wrote: »

iv always wondered why we don't have a 7s team in this country with 7s in the next olympics its raised the question for me again. maybe this has been asked up here before or maybe theres an obvious reason but i don't see it. theres more interest in 15 man rugby than theres ever been and the provinces seem to be producing a heap of talented backs at the moment.

so the question is why dont we have one?

Money, supposedly.

Ciaran-Irl

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Amia Freezing Strap wrote: »

iv always wondered why we don't have a 7s team in this country with 7s in the next olympics its raised the question for me again. maybe this has been asked up here before or maybe theres an obvious reason but i don't see it. theres more interest in 15 man rugby than theres ever been and the provinces seem to be producing a heap of talented backs at the moment.

so the question is why dont we have one?

Money, supposedly.

Makes sense I guess pity though

bilston

Amia Freezing Strap wrote: »

iv always wondered why we don't have a 7s team in this country with 7s in the next olympics its raised the question for me again. maybe this has been asked up here before or maybe theres an obvious reason but i don't see it. theres more interest in 15 man rugby than theres ever been and the provinces seem to be producing a heap of talented backs at the moment.

so the question is why dont we have one?

Yeah I think the IRFU would say is do you want a properly funded 7s team that plays on the 7s circuit or do you want Connacht...you can't have both...

Some lads would benefit from it, but such are the demands on the provinces these days that even Academy/U20 players are getting more and more Pro 12 exposure which I'd argue is better for them than playing 7s so you wouldn't know what sort of level of player would be left to play for the national 7s team.

Podge_irl

I think I remember the IRFU claiming in the past that they could only fund either a 7s team or the A team and they considered the latter more important (and I would agree). The A teams fixtures seem to have been fairly curtailed of late mind.

I like 7s but I'm highly sceptical of how useful a tool it is for developing players.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The AIL raised a stink about 7s too since it would most likely steal their players away

irishbucsfan

The Irish male 7s set up is a bit of a joke. They've threatened to get things going a couple of times but they just don't have the initiative.

The claim that we can't afford it may be true. I wonder though how a team like Kenya can tour when rugby is tiny in their nation.

A 7s series event in Dublin would be well attended and I'd guess it may just end up paying for the whole 7s setup? I don't know how much a team would cost to run or how much such an event would raise though.

We are very very far behind when it comes to men's 7s although the women's team is a lot better. I have a friend on that team and she claims it is a very long shot that the men will be taking part in the 2016 Olympics as the qualification process starts soon. That would be a real shame if it's true.

Cheers for the replies lads

Podge_irl

I don't think its even remotely likely that Ireland will be in Rio - our only hope is that its a UK team instead of individual ones. Until they clarify the qualification process we can only guess, but I would imagine that it will be regional so there will be at most 3 teams from Europe. UK and France will (easily) qualify ahead of us, so that means qualifying ahead of Portugal and Spain, who are both pretty solid 7s teams and more then capable of upsetting a cobbled together Irish team.

A 12 team tournament would likely see, if Brazil qualify as hosts/lambs to the slaughter, something like:

Brazil, Argentina, USA, UK, France, Kenya, South Africa, Japan, Australia, Fiji, NZ plus 1 other.

I think all the above are definites (with potentially Canada instead of US) simply in terms of geography. Even if Oceania only gets 2 spots, then Aus/NZ/Fiji will easily qualify through repechage. That leaves one spot left assuming it doesn't automatically go to another Asian team (i.e. Russia), and that's between us, Spain and Portugal I imagine.

Podge_irl

I forgot Samoa in the above. Depending on how the Repechage works they'll definitely get a spot if its open to them. It all depends on how qualifying works, but it certainly doesn't look good.

irishbucsfan

The women's qualification has definitely been clarified to the players as I've met a few of them and they know exactly what they need. I think it was the top 10 nations at a certain date. The Irish are hopefuly of making that so at least we'll have someone to cheer on in Rio.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it was the top 10 nations at a certain date.

Interesting, I assumed it would be a qualification tournament.

If the men's qualification is anything like a Top 12 then we're completely screwed.

Justin has mentioned that the qualification isn't decided yet, though that was some months ago.

irishbucsfan

It may be that I'm wrong and they just have a general idea of what they need to achieve, rather than it being officially decided. I wouldn't bet on my memory being correct.

bilston

I think that 7s will be a big success at Rio. It will be a huge boost to Rugby, particularly in South Americas and doubtless the IRFU will recognise this and put a lot of effort into getting a team organised for 2020, whether they can do that in four years is questionable so it may be 2024 before we're seriously competing at the Olympics which is pretty depressing.

As for why having a 7s team at the Olympics is so important...well it's because it would raise the profile of Rugby is further in Ireland beyond it's traditional borders ie middle class Dublin, Belfast and Cork, Limerick and Protestant rural Ulster...I know that's a sweeping statement but fairly accurate nonetheless IMO...

Ciaran-Irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Irish male 7s set up is a bit of a joke. They've threatened to get things going a couple of times but they just don't have the initiative.

The claim that we can't afford it may be true. I wonder though how a team like Kenya can tour when rugby is tiny in their nation.

A 7s series event in Dublin would be well attended and I'd guess it may just end up paying for the whole 7s setup? I don't know how much a team would cost to run or how much such an event would raise though.

We are very very far behind when it comes to men's 7s although the women's team is a lot better. I have a friend on that team and she claims it is a very long shot that the men will be taking part in the 2016 Olympics as the qualification process starts soon. That would be a real shame if it's true.

Kenya get a certain amount of funding from the IRB though, as a developing nation. they spend all that cash on their 7s team.

locum-motion

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think I remember the IRFU claiming in the past that they could only fund either a 7s team or the A team and they considered the latter more important (and I would agree). The A teams fixtures seem to have been fairly curtailed of late mind...

That argument may hav held water in the past, but with Rio in 4 years, and the demise (I think!) of the Churchill Cup, it's as leaky as a seive now!

ColmH81

I read this article not too long ago.. it seems to hint at the likes of Fez and Bowe playing for team GB...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9493324/Team-GB-rugby-sevens-team-embark-on-road-to-Rio-2016-Olympics.html

thomond2006

ColmH81 wrote: »

I read this article not too long ago.. it seems to hint at the likes of Fez and Bowe playing for team GB...

Tox56

It should probably be pointed out Bowe isn't from Northern Ireland anyway

ColmH81

Absolutely.. How would that affect their international status.. It's a crying shame the irfu can't fund a 7s team.. I know they did a few years ago, Felix Jones was playing on it..

thomond2006

ColmH81 wrote: »

Absolutely.. How would that affect their international status.. It's a crying shame the irfu can't fund a 7s team.. I know they did a few years ago, Felix Jones was playing on it..

That 7s team was just for the Sevens World Cup I think?

ormond lad

ColmH81 wrote: »

Absolutely.. How would that affect their international status.. It's a crying shame the irfu can't fund a 7s team.. I know they did a few years ago, Felix Jones was playing on it..

That 7s side with f jones was for a 7s world cup and those one off tournaments were the only time Ireland ever competed in 7s international circuit
Fairly sure the northern players would be playing with ireland. Sure with wales, scotland, england having full time 7s teams no irish players would more than likely make a british 7s squad

Wouldn't the Irish Olympic council give them grants for a 7s team

jacothelad

ColmH81 wrote: »

I read this article not too long ago.. it seems to hint at the likes of Fez and Bowe playing for team GB...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9493324/Team-GB-rugby-sevens-team-embark-on-road-to-Rio-2016-Olympics.html

There isn't a hope in hell of any Ulster player turning out for a U.K. sevens team. I don't know if they want too. Andrew Trimble I think has already stated that it won't happen for him. He may be 'British' in a political sense - or not - who cares - but he plays for Ireland. They are bound by IRB rules anyway. Let's not get into a Rory McIlroy situation about our guys.

As a side note, if the IRFU gave permission and the guys wanted the Olympic experience and they were selected, well, why not but considering that England have 18 players on full-time sevens contracts, none of whom will appear in the Aviva Premiership, the chances of any other players being in the mix is remote.

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

It should probably be pointed out Bowe isn't from Northern Ireland anyway

True but I'm pretty sure he'd qualify for Team GB if he wanted to play them...BUT like Jaco says I'd be amazed if any Ulster players chose to play for Team GB, particularly Tommy. Maybe a young up and comer who hasn't yet played for Ireland...maybe...but the likes of Ferris, Bowe and Trimble...no I don't see it irrespective of their politics which I assume is Unionist in the case of Trimble and Ferris.

ColmH81

thomond2006 wrote: »

That 7s team was just for the Sevens World Cup I think?

Ah sh@te.. There goes any argument I thought we'd have for a 7s team...

Heroditas

bilston wrote: »

As for why having a 7s team at the Olympics is so important...well it's because it would raise the profile of Rugby is further in Ireland beyond it's traditional borders ie middle class Dublin, Belfast and Cork, Limerick and Protestant rural Ulster...I know that's a sweeping statement but fairly accurate nonetheless IMO...

There's almost saturation coverage of rugby on RTE with the 6N and Rabo Pro 12. The Heineken Cup is on Sky and BBC also show the 6N.
I don't see how a Sevens tournament in Rio will raise the profile when there is a very good chance that coverage will be very limited and we have no history of 7s rugby.

bilston

Heroditas wrote: »

There's almost saturation coverage of rugby on RTE with the 6N and Rabo Pro 12. The Heineken Cup is on Sky and BBC also show the 6N.
I don't see how a Sevens tournament in Rio will raise the profile when there is a very good chance that coverage will be very limited and we have no history of 7s rugby.

Look at how many people get interested in sports during the Olympics they normally don't bother with the rest of the time.

I admit the benefits would be small enough in developed rugby countries like ourselves, the biggest winners will be countries like Portugal, Kenya and South America in general in the case of the 2016 games.

ColmH81

Heroditas wrote: »

There's almost saturation coverage of rugby on RTE with the 6N and Rabo Pro 12. The Heineken Cup is on Sky and BBC also show the 6N.
I don't see how a Sevens tournament in Rio will raise the profile when there is a very good chance that coverage will be very limited and we have no history of 7s rugby.

Maybe not everyone wants to play 15 a side rugby, and would prefer to have a 7s league set up... Just a thought...

Heroditas

ColmH81 wrote: »

Heroditas wrote: »

There's almost saturation coverage of rugby on RTE with the 6N and Rabo Pro 12. The Heineken Cup is on Sky and BBC also show the 6N.
I don't see how a Sevens tournament in Rio will raise the profile when there is a very good chance that coverage will be very limited and we have no history of 7s rugby.

Maybe not everyone wants to play 15 a side rugby, and would prefer to have a 7s league set up... Just a thought...

True. I feel that 7s and Tag are closer to each other than 7s and the 15 man game.

Deano7788

ColmH81 wrote: »

Maybe not everyone wants to play 15 a side rugby, and would prefer to have a 7s league set up... Just a thought...

The IRFU might actually view that as a negative though, if it causes playing numbers for 15s to be affected.

ormond lad

Heroditas wrote: »

True. I feel that 7s and Tag are closer to each other than 7s and the 15 man game.

Both 7s and tag have great benefits to the 15 man game and i wouldnt say 7s and tag are closer to each other than 7s and 15man rugby. How can you think that?

Heroditas

ormond lad wrote: »

Heroditas wrote: »

True. I feel that 7s and Tag are closer to each other than 7s and the 15 man game.

Both 7s and tag have great benefits to the 15 man game and i wouldnt say 7s and tag are closer to each other than 7s and 15man rugby. How can you think that?

Similar numbers, length of game etc.... if someone had taken up tag and then were looking for the next step up, I'd recommend they give 7s a whirl first.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deano7788 wrote: »

The IRFU might actually view that as a negative though, if it causes playing numbers for 15s to be affected.

Not so much the IRFU itself but powerful lobby groups in the AIL supposedly.

Since the IRFU wasn't going to force provinces to release players to play international sevens the AIL clubs became convinced that the IRFU would look for the pick of the AIL.

Also the most likely place for the IRFU to steal money from in the budget was going to be the clubs and domestic budgets.

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

There isn't a hope in hell of any Ulster player turning out for a U.K. sevens team. I don't know if they want too. Andrew Trimble I think has already stated that it won't happen for him. He may be 'British' in a political sense - or not - who cares - but he plays for Ireland. They are bound by IRB rules anyway. Let's not get into a Rory McIlroy situation about our guys.

As a side note, if the IRFU gave permission and the guys wanted the Olympic experience and they were selected, well, why not but considering that England have 18 players on full-time sevens contracts, none of whom will appear in the Aviva Premiership, the chances of any other players being in the mix is remote.

Is it really a big deal if they were to represent a UK team? (I personally don't think so).

One of the big factors that could annoy some people was how the UK team was marketed so heavily as Team GB, which Northern Ireland, being a different landmass, isn't part of.

If they were actually named (and more importantly called) The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland / Team UK / Team GB&NI , shouldn't players from Northern Ireland be allowed represent their country at the Olympics? Especially if we (Ireland - not ROI) don't send a team to represent us?

I guess it could still be 'too soon' and cause too much publicity, a lá wee Rory, but I think/thought that like Rory, rugby had tried to breach the political divide.

Trojan

There's no guarantee that any Ireland players would actually make it onto a UK team in any event, there's got to be a lot of competition for places.

Podge_irl

I imagine any UK team would be full of their professional full time 7s players.

ormond lad

Heroditas wrote: »

Similar numbers, length of game etc.... if someone had taken up tag and then were looking for the next step up, I'd recommend they give 7s a whirl first.

I wouldnt. 7s and tag may have similar numbers but the fitness to play 7s is so much higher. Tag is played across the pitch while 7s is full pitch.
Id def recommend someone who wants to play full contact rugby after playing tag to go nowhere near a 7s game unless theyve good skills from other sports and theyd have to be v good. Tackling, defensive awareness, attacking etc while playing 7s is quite different from the 15 man game so isnt the place for a relative novice to learn the game

pickarooney

I think it would be better for the game if only non-established rugby nations took part. Granted, it would diminish the competition not having NZ, Aus, France etc. but I think it would be worth the trade off if the likes of Brazil and Mexico were to see their teams on the big stage and maybe spark interest in these countries.

Podge_irl

It wouldn't diminish it, it would neuter it entirely. 7s is a sport that non-established nations can be reasonably expected to compete in with some investment. Just look at Kenya.

backgreen

Nz rugby develop their 7s in tandem with their 15s helping the players to run great running lines and awareness of space..the newest recruit from 7s ben smith the 13 no great bulk but everything else...50% of this years touring all blacks have played 7s at international level yet ireland have't even a proper program in place..tony ward has been urging the irfu to develop the game over the last 12 months ,but to no avail

Funk It

Podge_irl wrote: »

I imagine any UK team would be full of their professional full time 7s players.

Yip, sure are. They are contracted by the RU. We had a winger playing for us who was on the English 7's team, as far as I know he has since lost his English 7s contract and left our club.

JustinDee

Funk It wrote: »

Yip, sure are. They are contracted by the RU. We had a winger playing for us who was on the English 7's team, as far as I know he has since lost his English 7s contract and left our club.

Team GB Sevens will be steered by an Olympic committee comprised of members from English, Scottish and Welsh unions.

Gordon Gecko

pickarooney wrote: »

I think it would be better for the game if only non-established rugby nations took part. Granted, it would diminish the competition not having NZ, Aus, France etc. but I think it would be worth the trade off if the likes of Brazil and Mexico were to see their teams on the big stage and maybe spark interest in these countries.

That's true but from the limited amount of 7s I've seen it seems that non-establised nations beat the well established ones with relative regularity. In a competition like the Olympics I'd imagine such an upset against a big country would be quite possible (if the regular 7s squads are picked) and a huge publicity payoff for the developing rugby nation involved.