eviction of sitting non paying tenant ???

confusedb

If for arguments sake my mum allowed my aunt and uncle to stay in a vacant house she owned several years ago free of charge, and later agreed to allow them to stay for the rest of their lives free of charge, then willed the house to me, if uncle died and aunt went to a nursing home and then moved their son into the property, what recoarse would i have

themadchef

Without a written agreement id say the uncle and aunt had squatters rights all over it. Not sure about the son though?

Interesting one alright.

Procrastastudy

confusedb wrote: »

If for arguments sake my mum allowed my aunt and uncle to stay in a vacant house she owned several years ago free of charge, and later agreed to allow them to stay for the rest of their lives free of charge, then willed the house to me, if uncle died and aunt went to a nursing home and then moved their son into the property, what recoarse would i have

You probably got some issues in Real Property which I know less than I knew about it before I started studying it So I'll leave that for someone else.

On the contract side as there is no payment (consideration) there is no legally enforceable contract. There is also an issue surrounding the parties intention to create legal relations but that's moot.

So it boils down to - there's no contract kick him out - barring any property law issues.

NB I am not qualified to give legal advice - you presented a hypothetical I decided to use it as homework practice.

themadchef wrote: »

Without a written agreement id say the uncle and aunt had squatters rights all over it. Not sure about the son though?

Interesting one alright.

How are they squatting in a property they have permission to be in?

confusedb

well the uncle has just moved into care 8 weeks ago (or so i have been informed) and his greandchild now 22 has moved in again 8 weeks ago (or so i have been informed) there was a legal agreement saying they could stay there for the rest of their lives and that no family members could reside there.
i have sent solisitors letters to vacate but have not had any reply, what rights would i have to inspect the premises , and if i can prove thet the intended party no longer lives there what could i do

Procrastastudy

confusedb wrote: »

well the uncle has just moved into care 8 weeks ago (or so i have been informed) and his greandchild now 22 has moved in again 8 weeks ago (or so i have been informed) there was a legal agreement saying they could stay there for the rest of their lives and that no family members could reside there.
i have sent solisitors letters to vacate but have not had any reply, what rights would i have to inspect the premises , and if i can prove thet the intended party no longer lives there what could i do

Sorry but now you're asking for specific legal advice - charter - speak to the solicitor that sent the letters.

professore

That's why you should never mix business with friends and family.

You'll be popular throwing your first cousin on the street 8 weeks after his dad goes into a nursing home.

Have you spoken to your first cousin? Maybe see about coming to some arrangement?

confusedb

the cousin wont answer the door, and wont respond to any letters, i am now out of work and renting a house i can barely afford,

Kristopherus

Your OP was a hypothetical scenario. Now it has turned into a reality. If you are up front & tell the story as it is , you are more likely to get the answers you want.

confusedb

if they would even contrubite any form of rent it would help me and i dont want them to gain squaters rights , but they wont talk in any way, this is hypotitically of coarse

confusedb

well i didnt think i am allowed to post actual events here

Outkast_IRE

confusedb wrote: »

well i didnt think i am allowed to post actual events here

So i assume you dont have keys to the house?

Couldnt you get a locksmith and prove to the locksmith you are the houseowner , wait for the cousin to go out and change the locks.

Im not saying to lock him out but to put you back in control of access to the house.

confusedb

i could do that alright, would it be legal ???,

leeomurchu

confusedb wrote: »

) there was a legal agreement saying they could stay there for the rest of their lives and that no family members could reside there.

You're answering your own question there if there was a legal contract stating the above then the property has to return to the original owner which is now you.

You're full entitled to evict the son you'll probably need to serve him with eviction papers first but there'll be companies you could hire to do this they'll catch up with him and record him receiving it.

Then it'll be a matter of evicting him if he refuses to leave you can arrange for bailiffs to remove and secure the property.

This is all depending on the wording of the legal agreement between your parents and Aunt/uncle. I hope you're family isn't a close one because you're going to be met with some angry exchanges.

leeomurchu

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

So i assume you dont have keys to the house?

Couldnt you get a locksmith and prove to the locksmith you are the houseowner , wait for the cousin to go out and change the locks.

Im not saying to lock him out but to put you back in control of access to the house.

It'd be best to hire a company to do that and make sure you're keeping it all legal. You don't want him returning and destroying the house and it turning into an altercation which could very quickly get out of hand as we witnessed recently with that man and his father inlaw in wexford I think..

seamus

Assuming that the house is yours, the deeds are in your name, etc:

You are not his landlord and he is occupying your property without permission, so you have the right to enter the property whenever you wish.

In terms of removing him if he's there, consult the solicitor who sent the letters.

confusedb

thank you for your advice, yes deeds are in my name, if i want to inspect the premises lets say, do i have to give notice

seamus

No, you are not his landlord and he is not your tenant, so he cannot avail of the rights afforded to tenants. You can enter the property whenever you wish.

Note that I say with about 95% surity. Property law in this country does give quite a lot of rights to the person who considers the property "home" rather than the person who considers it an asset. However, given that you don't even know if the guy is actually living there, and if he has he's only been there 8 weeks, then I very much doubt he has any rights whatsoever. At the very least if you enter the property and find him there, there is little he can do except ask you to leave.

confusedb

thank you all very much, it is a tricky 1

Kosseegan

themadchef wrote: »

Without a written agreement id say the uncle and aunt had squatters rights all over it. Not sure about the son though?

Interesting one alright.

People who go into a house with permission do not acquire squatters rights. The were in the house on licence which can be revoked at any time. The o/p needs to go to a solicitor who can have ejectment proceedings initiated.

ResearchWill

It's threads like this remind me why the charter says no legal advice. The info given ranges from plain wrong to plan bad.

Noone mentioned life estate which is more than likely what the aunt and uncle have but no one can be sure as no one has seen the documents.

While it is alleged that the agreement granting the life estate does not allow other family to stay, again without seeing the document it's impossible to say what that clause says.

It could be that the uncle is going into care for a medium time (remember its more than likely a life estate) the grandson may be not residing there but just care taking which may be allowed under the deed (if it is such) granting the life estate.

What happens if the OP evicted this guy and his uncle arrives back to live out his days.

OP do not take any advice here even mine, (I'm not great at land law etc.) go to a solicitor, bring all your documents he will advise you on your rights.

leeomurchu

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's threads like this remind me why the charter says no legal advice. The info given ranges from plain wrong to plan bad.

Noone mentioned life estate which is more than likely what the aunt and uncle have but no one can be sure as no one has seen the documents.

While it is alleged that the agreement granting the life estate does not allow other family to stay, again without seeing the document it's impossible to say what that clause says.

It could be that the uncle is going into care for a medium time (remember its more than likely a life estate) the grandson may be not residing there but just care taking which may be allowed under the deed (if it is such) granting the life estate.

What happens if the OP evicted this guy and his uncle arrives back to live out his days.

OP do not take any advice here even mine, (I'm not great at land law etc.) go to a solicitor, bring all your documents he will advise you on your rights.

And it's comments like these that discourage others from offering advice not legal advice as you put it as clearly you would need to be qualified in such to do so.

It was pointed out in numerous posts that the wording of the contract would have to be assessed if there even is a contract.

Clearly though you seem capable of passing expert opinion even though you contradict yourself. "Advice ranging from plain wrong to plan bad, do not take any advice on here even mine(I'm not great at land law etc.)

Ah yes it's pointless posts like yours that drag down boards but I'm not expert of course :eek:

ResearchWill

leeomurchu wrote: »

And it's comments like these that discourage others from offering advice not legal advice as you put it as clearly you would need to be qualified in such to do so.

It was pointed out in numerous posts that the wording of the contract would have to be assessed if there even is a contract.

Clearly though you seem capable of passing expert opinion even though you contradict yourself. "Advice ranging from plain wrong to plan bad, do not take any advice on here even mine(I'm not great at land law etc.)

Ah yes it's pointless posts like yours that drag down boards but I'm not expert of course :eek:

The plain bad legal advice

"So i assume you dont have keys to the house?

Couldnt you get a locksmith and prove to the locksmith you are the houseowner , wait for the cousin to go out and change the locks.

Im not saying to lock him out but to put you back in control of access to the"

If the OP followed that could lead to very serious issues.

Followed by legal advice,

"No, you are not his landlord and he is not your tenant, so he cannot avail of the rights afforded to tenants. You can enter the property whenever you wish.

Note that I say with about 95% surity . Property law in this country does give quite a lot of rights to the person who considers the property "home" rather than the person who considers it an asset. However, given that you don't even know if the guy is actually living there, and if he has he's only been there 8 weeks, then I very much doubt he has any rights whatsoever. At the very least if you enter the property and find him there, there is little he can do except ask you to leave."


The OP has made it clear this is a real situation, he has been given legal advice, as no one mentioned life estate I can guess nobody has even a passing relationship with land law. I did nt derail the thread I mentioned to the OP that his Uncle may in fact have a life estate and on that basis as the uncle is not dead he needs to get proper legal advice. I do not want the OP to take anything I said as being legal advice because I do not want my PII being called upon. For that reason the only advice that is safe for the OP is to seek out a solicitor.

Procrastastudy

leeomurchu wrote: »

And it's comments like these that discourage others from offering advice not legal advice as you put it as clearly you would need to be qualified in such to do so.

It was pointed out in numerous posts that the wording of the contract would have to be assessed if there even is a contract.

Clearly though you seem capable of passing expert opinion even though you contradict yourself. "Advice ranging from plain wrong to plan bad, do not take any advice on here even mine(I'm not great at land law etc.)

Ah yes it's pointless posts like yours that drag down boards but I'm not expert of course :eek:

There are numerous forums the OP could have posted in. All of them have charters as does this one. The charter of this forum specifically tells people how to ask general questions. The reason - people like me (and I'm not alone). My advice was just plain wrong - as soon as the OP made it clear (although tbh it was poorly phrased to start with) I bowed out. Others did not - I'm not here to make comment on that I'm not a mod.

People think that just because there is the odd lawyer and law student here that they can rely on the advice - hence why people have to be so careful and the modding so strict. This forum has the real potential to do someone serious harm.