Leap & Dublin Bus (moved from Leap thread)

_Kaiser_

Reading this thread, like so many others here, are a reminder of why I will never use public transport again as a regular or even occasional choice - "extremely rare" would be an apt approximation

Don't get me wrong, some of the background info given by some of ye is very informative, but it just reinforces the point that very little has actually changed in the last decade-30 years! It's still a mess of conflicting interests, inefficiency, completely non-joined-up thinking that shows no sign of ever changing really.

I mean, here were are in 2012 faffing about with not-so-"smart cards" and integrated ticketing between different services.. something that has been done successfully in just about any other modern-ish country you can think of, and we STILL can't get it right!

Take myself as an example.. due to changes in circumstances I now find myself back in Dublin, living 8-15 minutes drive from the office, with a bus service from door-to-door almost literally.. on my doorstep I therefore should be an ideal candidate for leaving the car at home and getting the bus in and out right?

But not a chance will I do so.. why? Well...

- It's not cheap. I actually used the bus to go into town last month for a work night out and when he told me the fare I nearly choked! Nearly twice what it cost me to get from Blanch to the City Centre the last time I was on a Dublin Bus in 2005. And for what? Same buses, same distance as it would have been from my old stomping grounds. Still took as long too.

- How the feck am I supposed to know how many "stages" there are between point A and B.

- While the 10 journey ticket was actually pretty good in the old days, this of course no longer exists.. this Leap card seems like a disaster between dodgy/not working websites, going to shops to activate it or whatever, and then the whole thing of it not reading right etc. I'm also not a fan of top-up services anyway be it mobile phones, tolls or even my fuel card.. either charge me there and then or send me 1 bill at the end of the month. I won't be running to shops or logging on every night to throw in more credit and still end up stuck sooner or later anyway

- Although not so much a problem on this side of town it seems, the anti-social element would put me off. Not out of fear or anything - more a unwillingness to put up with that kinda thing now

I'll still be paying the tax and insurance on the car anyway, I will be at my desk in under 15 mins and warm/cool/dry every time. Plus I get free parking and am free to leave whatever time I like in the morning, so why on earth wouldn't I use that?

Savings? Leaving aside the aforementioned costs that I'd still be paying, it would actually cost me more in tickets than it does in diesel per week.

Time? It took about 20 mins to get to the office (off-peak I should add), standard of driving was poor (hard on the brakes, too sharp around the corners etc) and that's not counting the time you spend standing around first of course.

As I said, I should be a perfect candidate for our "new modern transport system" but I can't see anything in there for me.

miller50841

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Reading this thread, like so many others here, are a reminder of why I will never use public transport again as a regular or even occasional choice - "extremely rare" would be an apt approximation

Don't get me wrong, some of the background info given by some of ye is very informative, but it just reinforces the point that very little has actually changed in the last decade-30 years! It's still a mess of conflicting interests, inefficiency, completely non-joined-up thinking that shows no sign of ever changing really.

I mean, here were are in 2012 faffing about with not-so-"smart cards" and integrated ticketing between different services.. something that has been done successfully in just about any other modern-ish country you can think of, and we STILL can't get it right!

Take myself as an example.. due to changes in circumstances I now find myself back in Dublin, living 8-15 minutes drive from the office, with a bus service from door-to-door almost literally.. on my doorstep I therefore should be an ideal candidate for leaving the car at home and getting the bus in and out right?

But not a chance will I do so.. why? Well...

- It's not cheap. I actually used the bus to go into town last month for a work night out and when he told me the fare I nearly choked! Nearly twice what it cost me to get from Blanch to the City Centre the last time I was on a Dublin Bus in 2005. And for what? Same buses, same distance as it would have been from my old stomping grounds. Still took as long too.

Have you noticed fuel has gone up, road tax which yes db has to pay for each bus, subvention for fuel scrapped and then the money that was been put in by the government has been cut drastically.

- How the feck am I supposed to know how many "stages" there are between point A and B.

You dont need to know if your nice and ask nicely the driver will let you know the fare.

- While the 10 journey ticket was actually pretty good in the old days, this of course no longer exists.. this Leap card seems like a disaster between dodgy/not working websites, going to shops to activate it or whatever, and then the whole thing of it not reading right etc. I'm also not a fan of top-up services anyway be it mobile phones, tolls or even my fuel card.. either charge me there and then or send me 1 bill at the end of the month. I won't be running to shops or logging on every night to throw in more credit and still end up stuck sooner or later anyway

10 Journey still exists its travel90 costs €2.15

- Although not so much a problem on this side of town it seems, the anti-social element would put me off. Not out of fear or anything - more a unwillingness to put up with that kinda thing now

I'll still be paying the tax and insurance on the car anyway, I will be at my desk in under 15 mins and warm/cool/dry every time. Plus I get free parking and am free to leave whatever time I like in the morning, so why on earth wouldn't I use that?

Savings? Leaving aside the aforementioned costs that I'd still be paying, it would actually cost me more in tickets than it does in diesel per week.

Only driving a diesel 15mins down the road not great for it.

Time? It took about 20 mins to get to the office (off-peak I should add), standard of driving was poor (hard on the brakes, too sharp around the corners etc) and that's not counting the time you spend standing around
first of course.

You probably put the driver in a bad mood with your moaning of how the fare was this or that years ago and whatever else you probably said.

Get the app and you wouldnt have to stand waiting.(real time info)
As I said, I should be a perfect candidate for our "new modern transport system" but I can't see anything in there for me.

If only more like you stayed at home or used your cars it would make a bus drivers job even easier

_Kaiser_

miller50841 wrote: »

If only more like you stayed at home or used your cars it would make a bus drivers job even easier

Care to expand on that? EDIT: Nevermind.. I just saw the in-line replies to my post in the Quote you made

_Kaiser_

miller50841 wrote: »

Have you noticed fuel has gone up, road tax which yes db has to pay for each bus, subvention for fuel scrapped and then the money that was been put in by the government has been cut drastically.

Yes I'm aware of all the hardship in DB with regards to costs. I'm also aware of how a unionised workforce with very high wages for what the job entails (which is not to say it's "easy", just overpaid in my opinion), resistance to any changes whatsoever without running it by said union aren't going to help drive those costs down and efficiencies up either.

To be fair, DB is not the only example of this, but you have to start change somewhere. If public transport is to ever make inroads in this country it needs to be cheaper, more efficient and reliable than the alternative - and that's not achieved by taxing said alternative out of existence either.

You dont need to know if your nice and ask nicely the driver will let you know the fare.

Which is what I did on the night in question and when he told me the price I nearly choked. Still, I paid it anyway on that occasion but 2 weeks later when I was heading out again I just took my car and didn't bother drinking (wasn't a great night anyway so savings all round)

10 Journey still exists its travel90 costs €2.15

€2.15 per single journey I assume?

Only driving a diesel 15mins down the road not great for it.

Very true which is why it also gets a nice long countryside motorway blast every other weekend too. Believe me I know how to look after my car .. which is why 4 years and 226,000km later (just under 200k of which are mine), it still runs like clockwork.

You probably put the driver in a bad mood with your moaning of how the fare was this or that years ago and whatever else you probably said.

As above, I didn't say a word to him but just resolved not to bother at all next time

Get the app and you wouldnt have to stand waiting.(real time info)

Yep that's fine if the buses all run to schedule/none missing etc. If there is a missing duty though it just means you'll know precisely how long it'l be till one DOES arrive... but that's not really the point is it?

If only more like you stayed at home or used your cars it would make a bus drivers job even easier

I assume from that that you're a bus driver yourself? Regardless, if they don't like the job or dealing with customers (or "skulls" as I've seen used here before) then frankly boo-hoo. Get a new job! They are there to serve the public, not the other way round - but again I'll grant you that that's a common misconception among a lot of our public servants generally.

AlekSmart

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of all the hardship in DB with regards to costs. I'm also aware of how a unionised workforce with very high wages for what the job entails (which is not to say it's "easy", just overpaid in my opinion), resistance to any changes whatsoever without running it by said union aren't going to help drive those costs down and efficiencies up either.

To be fair, DB is not the only example of this, but you have to start change somewhere. If public transport is to ever make inroads in this country it needs to be cheaper, more efficient and reliable than the alternative - and that's not achieved by taxing said alternative out of existence either.


Which is what I did on the night in question and when he told me the price I nearly choked. Still, I paid it anyway on that occasion but 2 weeks later when I was heading out again I just took my car and didn't bother drinking (wasn't a great night anyway so savings all round)


€2.15 per single journey I assume?


Very true which is why it also gets a nice long countryside motorway blast every other weekend too. Believe me I know how to look after my car .. which is why 4 years and 226,000km later (just under 200k of which are mine), it still runs like clockwork.


As above, I didn't say a word to him but just resolved not to bother at all next time


Yep that's fine if the buses all run to schedule/none missing etc. If there is a missing duty though it just means you'll know precisely how long it'l be till one DOES arrive... but that's not really the point is it?


I assume from that that you're a bus driver yourself? Regardless, if they don't like the job or dealing with customers (or "skulls" as I've seen used here before) then frankly boo-hoo. Get a new job! They are there to serve the public, not the other way round - but again I'll grant you that that's a common misconception among a lot of our public servants generally.

Kaiser2000,in an attempt,not misguided I hope ?,to steer this debate towards addressing your charging issue,could you llet us know the journey you made?

Given the quite deliberate removal of ALL On-Street Stage Markings by the company,it is extremely difficult for a Customer OR a Staff Member to advise definitively on a fare.

I personally find this highly objectionable and sadly illustrative of a deeper lack of interest on the part of senior DB and NTA administrative people.

The issue of being overpaid is moot and can be extened to almost every current employment in modern Ireland.

Suffice to say that as a Busdriver myself,the current pay rates are a reasonable reflection of the skill-sets now required in the Job.

This is now somewhat reinforced by the Official Government and EU policy of "Proffessionalizing" the Truck & Bus driving fields.

It is highly likely that the ongoing application of these Proffessional Status requirements will lead to some severe Staff Shortages in the medium term as operators encounter difficulties recruiting fully qualified drivers or drivers with enough pre-qualifications to even enter a Company training programme.

It should be noted that this is sector wide and effects ALL (legally operating) Public Transport Operators,which in this medium term will ensure that wage rates,if anything will increase rather than lead any headlong charge into "Low Cost Bus Travel".

However that does not mean that I,as a Busdriver,disagree with your desire for low cost,efficient,effective public transport.

However,I suspect our respective views on how this can be achieved will doubtless differ.

The model I support is largely the French one,which involves far more interaction on a "Commune" basis,with Local Authorities,Operators and Customers all interacting to a far greater degree than the UK/Irish preferred model.

However,this model is in no way cheap,but it does offer very attractive services at substantially subvented point-of-use fares.

I may be wrong,but I suspect Kaiser2000 may be leaning more towards the free-market light touch regulation setup favoured by the late Nicholas Ridley when he oversaw the Thatcher governments initial attempt to re-invent Public Transport across the UK.

That process is still ongoing with the arguements now as deeply entrenched as they were 40 years ago,and definitive solutions just as far away.

PS: Dont be too offended by the term "Skulls" as it dates back to the earliest days of Railway ticket checking,referring to the standard practice of a Ticket Checker/Conductor counting the amount of Skulls he could see from the back of the carriage,before checking the actual tickets.

Victor

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