Cycle Commuting sub-forum.

bk

A request by JuliusCeasar has been made to create a Commuter Cycling sub-forum of the Commuting & Transport forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056755344

I think this is a very good idea. The existing Cycling forum is far too focused on cycling as a sport IMO and can be a little daunting for general cycle commuter to ask questions there.

I think there is a definite need for a forum more focused on general Cycling Commuting and Infrastructure, way people could discuss things like:

- Bike lanes
- Dublin Bikes
- Bike Parking
- Commuter Bikes
etc.

A place less aggressive and competitive then the Cycling forum for more normal folks who cycle just a few km to work/school every day.

For many people cycling seems like something that is very hard, something that only lycra wearing, fitness freaks can do and the cycling forum doesn't do anything to expel this myth. A nicer, more relaxed cycle commuting forum I believe would be very welcome.

So go add your support to the request if you agree.

Cookie_Monster

why do you need it as a sub forum of C&T, why not just use the main forum. This place is far too restricted to moans about tickets and fare dodging these days anyway, needs a broader range of topics.

bk

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why do you need it as a sub forum of C&T, why not just use the main forum. This place is far too restricted to moans about tickets and fare dodging these days anyway, needs a broader range of topics.

Because I think it would attractive far more attention and focus from actual commuter cyclists then this forum does.

After all there are 5 or 6 different "car" forums, why no cycle commuter forum too?

Cycle commuting has now become big enough in Ireland that it deserves it's own forum and to not be seen as just another sport.

Cookie_Monster

Fair enough, I don't think it'll generate the usage but I'll plus one it anyway

bk

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Fair enough, I don't think it'll generate the usage but I'll plus one it anyway

Thanks we could always re-merge it if it doesn't take off.

I think you maybe surprised, just look at how the Train and Roads sub-forums have taken off.

AltAccount

bk wrote: »

I think there is a definite need for a forum more focused on general Cycling Commuting and Infrastructure, way people could discuss things like:

- Bike lanes
- Dublin Bikes
- Bike Parking
- Commuter Bikes
etc.

A place less aggressive and competitive then the Cycling forum for more normal folks who cycle just a few km to work/school every day.

Every single one of those topics have been, and are, covered regularly in the Cycling forum.

At the very least the sub forum should be part of Cycling rather than C&T. Will C&T have the "footfall" to support this, TRS and a dedicated Bus sub forum?

How do you experience the aggressiveness in the Cycling forum?

bk

AltAccount wrote: »

Every single one of those topics have been, and are, covered regularly in the Cycling forum.

No, it really isn't suited to the sporting forum. After all cycle commuting is not a sport, it is a form of transport and commuting. That is the whole point.

AltAccount wrote: »

At the very least the sub forum should be part of Cycling rather than C&T. Will C&T have the "footfall" to support this, TRS and a dedicated Bus sub forum?

Yes it does. There are tens if not hundreds of commuting cyclists in Ireland who currently have no forum and community to support their views.

TRS and the Roads sub-forums (Roads is under infrastructure, but very much is C&T related topics) have taken off very well and are highly trafficed, with no obvious reduction in traffic to the C&T forum.

In fact the TRS forum is a model for the Cycling Commuting forum. The TRS forum seems to have attracted way more Train related threds and psots then ever were on the C&T forum. That is I guess because people with an interest in trains had their own well defined community.

I think the same could happen with the Cycling Commuting forum, attracting a dedicated following and community that never or rarely posted in the C&T and Cycling forums.

What's the worst that can happen? We give it a try, it doesn't take off and we shut it down.

I'm personally enthusiatic about trying to make it work. I think the Irish cycling community needs such a forum and I'm quiet willing to mod it and but a lot of effort into developing threads and topics for discussion on it to help it take off.

AltAccount wrote: »

How do you experience the aggressiveness in the Cycling forum?

I didn't say that I experienced aggressiveness there, just that I don't want to wade threw pages of discussion of cycling sport to get to the odd thread I'm interested in.

It is all about developing a different type of community, with a different focus and emphasis.

I can't understand why any cycling enthusiast would be against this? If "cars" can have six forums, I can't see why cycling can't have two? It is a sign of cycling being taken up by more and more people in their daily lives. Different types of cyclists, with different needs and the communities to support them.

Iwannahurl

bk wrote: »

No, it really isn't suited to the sporting forum. After all cycle commuting is not a sport, it is a form of transport and commuting. That is the whole point.

I agree. No disrespect to sports cyclists, but I find it annoying to have to scan through numerous sports-related posts in order to find the ones relevant to commuter/utility cycling.

Same machine, different objectives and issues of concern. I'm not convinced that sports/leisure cyclists who don't commute by bike are really in touch with what matters to commuter/utility cyclists. The reverse is also true, speaking for myself anyway.

Kumsheen

I think the cycling commuting forum is a good idea. +1

bk

Kumsheen wrote: »

I think the cycling commuting forum is a good idea. +1

Thanks but if you support it, you need to +1 it over on this thread to make it happen:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056755344

Cheers.

monument

Lots of opposition to this from many from the cycling board.

JuliusCaesar

Yes - as would be expected! The elistist in any society have a vested interest in denying this. :rolleyes:

In case anyone thinks I'm demented, here's an interesting piece of research on how road users view each other:

Interestingly, it was also found that car drivers categorised cyclists into three distinct types (professional cyclists such as couriers, commuters, and those cycling for fun) and attributed different behaviours to these; professional cyclists, for example, were seen as the greatest risk, due to their excessive rule breaking and risk taking.

when a male cyclist was wearing a blonde wig (so as to appear female), drivers passing him afforded him more room than when he appeared male (by not wearing the wig).

car drivers who had relatives who rode a motorcycle were less likely than average to be involved in a collision with a motorcyclist.

another research piece calls for a differential focus on sub-groups of cyclists when considering policy formation, regulation and safe provision for cyclists on roads. This one also remarks the same:

discussions about cycling as a practice suggested that it should be seen as complex (comprising multiple elements), relational (it should not be seen as separate from other practices or from its broader geographical context), and as divided (across multiple scales).

As an aside, can I request that the mods sticky this thread? It's been stickied in the cycling forum, where they are regarding it as 'splitting' cycling, rather than an addition for people who aren't interested in building their own bikes or going for 100k 'spins', and so generating a lot of -1s. Thanks, JC

AltAccount

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes - as would be expected! The elistist in any society have a vested interest in denying this. :rolleyes:

Oh would you ever give over about the elitist bull.

Also, you might reflect on how this kind of posting is going to affect your ability to create a community in the new forum is you're chosen as mod.
At the moment you seem quite committed to deriding and insulting the majority of the current cycling community on boards, calling them elitists and snobs.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

In case anyone thinks I'm demented, here's an interesting piece of research on how road users view each other:

Interestingly, it was also found that car drivers categorised cyclists into three distinct types (professional cyclists such as couriers, commuters, and those cycling for fun) and attributed different behaviours to these; professional cyclists, for example, were seen as the greatest risk, due to their excessive rule breaking and risk taking.

I've highlighted what I think is the important bit here.

It seems from the threads so far and from this research that, while car drivers may categorise cyclists, cyclists themselves see a lot more shades of grey.

Why should the new forum be based on the opinions or perceptions of car drivers?

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

As an aside, can I request that the mods sticky this thread? It's been stickied in the cycling forum, where they are regarding it as 'splitting' cycling, rather than an addition for people who aren't interested in building their own bikes or going for 100k 'spins', and so generating a lot of -1s. Thanks, JC

I'm still unsure where you think this forum is going. If you take out the maintenance aspect and longer distance spins, what's left to discuss?

Will your commuting community have to go to the Sports Cycling forum if they have a maintenance/bike building query because you don't deem that to be commuting-related?

Beasty

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

As an aside, can I request that the mods sticky this thread? It's been stickied in the cycling forum, where they are regarding it as 'splitting' cycling, rather than an addition for people who aren't interested in building their own bikes or going for 100k 'spins', and so generating a lot of -1s. Thanks, JC

Just to be clear, the reason we've stickied it is that we have locked it and are directing all discussion to the Forum request thread, rather than allowing parallel threads covering exactly the same issues. Without stickying it would quickly fall off the front page

For the same reason I am choosing not to contribute to this thread, other than to make this one point

Kumsheen

I see the forum request thread has been temporarily closed.

Anyway, i just read through the last few pages that were posted, and i'm really surprised by the level of opposition from those in the current cycling forum, to a separate forum in C and T for commuting cycling.

Before i found out where the current cycling forum was, i have to be honest that i never thought of looking in the sports section.
Even though i have always enjoyed cycling i never considered it as a sports activity for me, it was always a mode of transport from my own personal perspective.
I'm sure there are probably some others who think the same.

My interests are in the transport context so i tend to fit in with the forums and content over in C and T.
I see cycling as a very important mode of transport and enjoy reading and contributing to topics about cycling as a transport mode. Such as Dublin Bikes, which i think are great.

When i did go over to the cycling forum i found most of the topics of no personal interest to me and you would have to trawl through pages to try and find something that is of interest. And even then a lot of the replies to the subject would have a different outlook than if the same subject was discussed on C and T.

It seems like some of the opposition may be related to some peoples opinions of a single poster rather than the question itself.
I hope people can put this aside and discuss the merits of a separate forum without involving personalities.

I believe this could actually increase the overall Cycling discussions on boards rather than fragmenting it.

AltAccount

Kumsheen wrote: »

My interests are in the transport context so i tend to fit in with the forums and content over in C and T.
I see cycling as a very important mode of transport and enjoy reading and contributing to topics about cycling as a transport mode. Such as Dublin Bikes, which i think are great.

When i did go over to the cycling forum i found most of the topics of no personal interest to me and you would have to trawl through pages to try and find something that is of interest. And even then a lot of the replies to the subject would have a different outlook than if the same subject was discussed on C and T.

Have you started any threads in Cycling around your topics of interest? What was the general response?

buffalo

I speculate that many of the -1 voters would have abstained had the request not been made and supported initially by two posters who seem to have a snobbish attitude toward the cycling forum.

Additionally, making the request without posting about it in the cycling forum is somewhat sly, and not going to provoke a favourable response. I don't think that the original proposers could have made their request in a more offensive fashion.

Kumsheen

Only started one, but i don't tend to start too many threads anyway. I read a lot more than i write.

AltAccount

Kumsheen wrote: »

Only started one, but i don't tend to start too many threads anyway. I read a lot more than i write.

So the current Cycling forum isn't discussing what you're interested in, and rather than try and introduce those topics to the forum yourself and see what happens, your prefer to presume that the Cycling community won't react like you expect/want and instead support a proposal to create a new forum to discuss those issues?


Edit: anyhoo, the Forum Request thread has been reopened, so probably best to keep all the discussion in one place.

Trojan

AltAccount wrote: »

the Forum Request thread has been reopened, so probably best to keep all the discussion in one place.

+1

Closing this thread in order to send discussion over there.