Car written off - have to pay to get it scrapped?

Eoin

My wife's '02 206 was crashed into last week and as expected, has been written off as it was uneconomical to repair. The other party has accepted full liability.

The problem is that the insurance company are saying that the cost of scrapping it (about 450) will be deducted from the final settlement price. We can't understand why my wife should bear this cost when she was the one that was crashed into.

It will put her out of pocket, and 450 could make a big difference at that end of the used car market for when we get a replacement for her.

My wife queried it on the phone and they said something about the other option being for her to sell it herself.

We would have expected that this cost should be added to the claim that the other party has to pay and it shouldn't affect her? In case it makes a difference, both parties are insured through the same company, but through different brokers.

colm_mcm

I would have thought it'd be worth money in scrap metal, is the cost for removal and storage I wonder?

challengemaster

Eoin wrote: »

We would have expected that this cost should be added to the claim that the other party has to pay and it shouldn't affect her? In case it makes a difference, both parties are insured through the same company, but through different brokers.

I'd say thats your reason right there, they're trying to prevent themselves having to pay it.

Doesn't sound right to me though.

puzzle factory

keep it and ring a scrap-age crowd near you, they will pick it up and you will get between 130euro and 170 euros depending where you are and who your dealing with for it.

Eoin

It's been in the garage for a week, so that could be it - but the question is really why they're trying to sting my wife for any costs at all to do with the crash.

She's been crashed into through no fault of her own, her car is written off - she should not have to pay a cent, surely?

Edit:

puzzle factory wrote: »

keep it and ring a scrap-age crowd near you, they will pick it up and you will get between 130euro and 170 euros depending where you are and who your dealing with for it.

We don't really want the hassle - we'd have expected that having been crashed into, she should be back on the road at no expense. As it is, we're going to have to argue our case to get a replacement baby car seat (it's not recommended to use one after a crash).

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd say thats your reason right there, they're trying to prevent themselves having to pay it.

Doesn't sound right to me though.

That's what I'm thinking. Might be some weird number crunching going on.

cadaliac

Very strange alright. Surely you shouldn't be out of pocket. The baby seat should also be included as part of the cost. I think he insurance crowd are pulling a fast one. €450 seems ridiculous to me. Garage should be charging insurance for storage.

-Corkie-

Eoin thats complete BS the whole point of insurance is to leave the injured party in the same financial positon as before the accident. You should not make a profif or a loss from the whole thing.

As said above you should be compensated for the baby seat and any other losses like car hire etc.. If they are still being stubborn give your solicitor a call.

MugMugs

That's bollox Eoin. Once they settle with your wife its their car and all.associated costs ( and incurred as a result of the claim ) are their responsibility and not yours. Also, as she isn't liable they will be subrogating against the other insurer.

Profiler

At a guess I'd say there is a misunderstanding at the heart of this.

The way write offs are usually done is:

1) Calculate the PAV (Pre accident value) usually by comparing to same make/model/specification and similar mileage.
2) Agree salvage (value of car in its current post accident value)

3) take salvage off PAV and get net loss (on vehicle only!)

So for example if your wife's car was worth:

[plucks figure out of air]€1,000[/plucks figure out of air] and using the salvage value mentioned of €450 we get.

€1,000
-€ 450
€ 550 - net loss.

What should happen is the garage pay your wife the €450 directly. So you get €550 from the Insurance company and €450 from the holding garage and you get your €1000 PAV - so you are not out of pocket there.

On top of the net loss for the car you are entitled to be reimbursed for any reasonable expense you have incurred. As a rough estimate you are given 2 weeks to find a replacement car, and you can be allowed up to 2 weeks car hire. You should be entitled to claim that back amount or have a figure representing that time period added to your net loss. (eg €50 x 10 days)

Also on the reasonable expense would be any towing fee incurred and beware a limited amount for storage fees.

On the baby car seat, I would say yes absolutely get a new one, why risk buying a 2nd hand one when you don't know it's history? To be honest I would be shocked if the insurance company tried haggling over it.

CiniO

Eoin wrote: »

My wife's '02 206 was crashed into last week and as expected, has been written off as it was uneconomical to repair. The other party has accepted full liability.

The problem is that the insurance company are saying that the cost of scrapping it (about 450) will be deducted from the final settlement price. We can't understand why my wife should bear this cost when she was the one that was crashed into.

It will put her out of pocket, and 450 could make a big difference at that end of the used car market for when we get a replacement for her.

My wife queried it on the phone and they said something about the other option being for her to sell it herself.

We would have expected that this cost should be added to the claim that the other party has to pay and it shouldn't affect her? In case it makes a difference, both parties are insured through the same company, but through different brokers.

I think you just misunderstood insurance company.
The 450 euros you mentioned is not a cost of scrapping, but a value of the wreck. I assume your insurance company should give you contact to salvage company which is offering 450 for your wreck. They will come over, pick it up, and pay you 450. That's why insurance company will deduct 450 from final settlement.

Eoin

Aaaah, so that's what's probably going on! They didn't make that clear to my wife.

Thanks so much for that. We will confirm that with them tomorrow; that makes more sense now. We got a quote for the car seat, so will fax that in to them at the same time and hopefully all will be well.

I'm glad I checked here first before giving them the full rant I've been preparing all evening.

Shane Fitz

Eoin wrote: »

Aaaah, so that's what's probably going on! They didn't make that clear to my wife.

Thanks so much for that. We will confirm that with them tomorrow; that makes more sense now. We got a quote for the car seat, so will fax that in to them at the same time and hopefully all will be well.

I'm glad I checked here first before giving them the full rant I've been preparing all evening.

Don't forget your wife may be liable for the storage fees and possible the recovery too.

Eoin

There was no recovery thankfully - it was drivable afterwards.

Do you mean storage fees since it was brought there? I'd expect that to be charged to the other party's policy, not my wife.

Tony D

It is the salvage value that they are allocating you

Shane Fitz

Eoin wrote: »

There was no recovery thankfully - it was drivable afterwards.

Do you mean storage fees since it was brought there? I'd expect that to be charged to the other party's policy, not my wife.

You may be right, it is worth checking, as a weeks storage will put a good dent in your final settlement

Eoin

Cheers, we will confirm that too. It's probably a big misunderstanding on our behalf, and it'll all be grand.

Tony D

Ask th claims handler /adjuster to email you with a breakdown of their settlement proposal, that will make things a bit clearer for you

MugMugs

Profiler wrote: »

At a guess I'd say there is a misunderstanding at the heart of this.

The way write offs are usually done is:

1) Calculate the PAV (Pre accident value) usually by comparing to same make/model/specification and similar mileage.
2) Agree salvage (value of car in its current post accident value)

3) take salvage off PAV and get net loss (on vehicle only!)

So for example if your wife's car was worth:

[plucks figure out of air]€1,000[/plucks figure out of air] and using the salvage value mentioned of €450 we get.

€1,000
-€ 450
€ 550 - net loss.

What should happen is the garage pay your wife the €450 directly. So you get €550 from the Insurance company and €450 from the holding garage and you get your €1000 PAV - so you are not out of pocket there.

On top of the net loss for the car you are entitled to be reimbursed for any reasonable expense you have incurred. As a rough estimate you are given 2 weeks to find a replacement car, and you can be allowed up to 2 weeks car hire. You should be entitled to claim that back amount or have a figure representing that time period added to your net loss. (eg €50 x 10 days)

Also on the reasonable expense would be any towing fee incurred and beware a limited amount for storage fees.

On the baby car seat, I would say yes absolutely get a new one, why risk buying a 2nd hand one when you don't know it's history? To be honest I would be shocked if the insurance company tried haggling over it.

Ops contract isn't with the garage. It's with the insurer. I've actually never heard of this tbh.

Profiler

MugMugs wrote: »

Ops contract isn't with the garage. It's with the insurer. I've actually never heard of this tbh.

The offer on the salvage is from the Garage not the Insurer.

If the insurer are to pay the full amount then the O/P will have to sign over legal ownership of the car in it's damaged condition to the Insurer who would then have to sign over ownership to a salvage dealer... Wherever and whenever they can in write offs Insurers will have the Insured deal with Salvage dealers direct.

If you've never heard of that then I'd say you're not that knowledgeable.

Tony D

The salvage offer will be from the Insurer. It will be a figure that they may have assistance coming to from a garage, but all it is would be a figure that Insurers deduct from the settlement offer. It reduces the overall settlement for the Insurer

And I am not making any of that up as it is what I do everyday!

Profiler

Tony D wrote: »

The salvage offer will be from the Insurer. It will be a figure that they may have assistance coming to from a garage, but all it is would be a figure that Insurers deduct from the settlement offer. It reduces the overall settlement for the Insurer

And I am not making any of that up as it is what I do everyday!

The offer to purchase the salvage comes from the Garage not the insurer.

That's why Insurers pay less the salvage not including it. (see example on page one)

As for the garage assisting the Insurer in coming to that figure? No, they don't.

The assessor (possibly in house but more than likely external) does that.

Assessors will seek salvage tenders from a number of garages, but Garages don't assist Insurers to come decide on PAV's or salvage values.

Moreover it dosen't "reduce the overall settlement" at all.

Salvage is factored into the net loss calculation. The offer in settlement made would be calculated to include all reasonable losses. (car hire, towage, storage, replacement child seats....)

If the car owner gets €450 from the garage then they are not at a loss for that amount.

Tony D

Different Insurers have different protocols and what might be right in my experience may differ from what you have experienced.

I am currently dealing with two different Insurers re "written off" cars and both are doing it in different ways.

Same result at the endof day, but different ways of getting there

Eoin

As suspected, it was a misunderstanding. The salvage yard are giving my wife 450, and the insurance company are giving her the balance.

Thanks for all the advice.

patwicklow

Yes dont stand for it they are making money out of you saying 450e to scrap it pure bull **** any scrap yard will give you 130-170 euro for a scrap car dont let them pen pushers sitting in there offices rip you off!

Eoin

patwicklow wrote: »

Yes dont stand for it they are making money out of you saying 450e to scrap it pure bull **** any scrap yard will give you 130-170 euro for a scrap car dont let them pen pushers sitting in there offices rip you off!

It's cool - my wife misunderstood what the insurance company are telling her.

The salvage yard are paying her 450 for what's left of the car, and this amount is being deducted from the overall sum.

patwicklow

Eoin wrote: »

It's cool - my wife misunderstood what the insurance company are telling her.

The salvage yard are paying her 450 for what's left of the car, and this amount is being deducted from the overall sum.

Oh i get you now

The Real B-man

Remember to get a Refund from the Tax Office with Remaining Months on current Disc.

Eoin

As it happens, it was a couple of weeks out and my wife was just about to renew it!

No storage fees either - we've posted off the VLC to the salvage company and they're collecting the car from the garage it was inspected in. They'll send out the check and the insurance company are sending out the balance.

They're covering the cost of the new car seat as well from what we can tell.

Eoin

Quick update - all is sorted. She got her check from the insurance company and her check from the salvage company. The cost of a brand new baby seat was included as well with no quibbles, and we managed to get a rental car (FIAT Panda - very disappointing yoke to drive) for 2 weeks.

Thanks everyone for clearing up what was going on - the insurance company and the broker didn't make things too clear, so this thread helped save a day or two of stress.

MugMugs

Profiler wrote: »

If you've never heard of that then I'd say you're not that knowledgeable.

Quite a rash assumption....

Voodoomelon

Eoin wrote: »

Quick update - all is sorted. She got her check from the insurance company and her check from the salvage company. The cost of a brand new baby seat was included as well with no quibbles, and we managed to get a rental car (FIAT Panda - very disappointing yoke to drive) for 2 weeks.

Thanks everyone for clearing up what was going on - the insurance company and the broker didn't make things too clear, so this thread helped save a day or two of stress.

Out of curiosity, who are you insured with and how long did it take from the day of the accident to the day the cheque arrived in? Always good to hear of these timescales.

Profiler

MugMugs wrote: »

Quite a rash assumption....

No it's not rash. You talked about a contract between the OP and his insurer and how that removes the garage from the settlement.

The contract you cited is one of indemnity, the example I gave ticks all the boxes when it comes to indemnity.

The settlement the OP confirmed was recieved proves that... and yet you've never heard of a settlement where the salvage dealer buys the salvage off the owner directly... really?

I'm happy to restate without fear of contradiction that if you're "actually never heard" of that settlement approach that you are not knowledgeable on the settlement of comprehensive claims involving a written off vehicle.

MugMugs

Profiler wrote: »

No it's not rash. You talked about a contract between the OP and his insurer and how that removes the garage from the settlement.

The contract you cited is one of indemnity, the example I gave ticks all the boxes when it comes to indemnity.

The settlement the OP confirmed was recieved proves that... and yet you've never heard of a settlement where the salvage dealer buys the salvage off the owner directly... really?

I'm happy to restate without fear of contradiction that if you're "actually never heard" of that settlement approach that you are not knowledgeable on the settlement of comprehensive claims involving a written off vehicle.

To be honest, I've not interest in playing the who has the biggest dick game with you.

Any total loss settlements I ever dealt with in the day were via the Insurer. The Insured never dealt with the recovery agent. The contact of Insurance was between the Insurer and the Insured..... introducing a third party to the affair would have just led to complications to the process.

We sold to the salvage agent, the V5 was given by the Insured to the Insurer and relayed to the salvage agent. The Insured dealt with us and us only.

I made a civil observation, you retorted with an attempt to demean me. Simples.

Profiler

MugMugs wrote: »

To be honest, I've not interest in playing the who has the biggest dick game with you.

Any total loss settlements I ever dealt with in the day were via the Insurer. The Insured never dealt with the recovery agent. The contact of Insurance was between the Insurer and the Insured..... introducing a third party to the affair would have just led to complications to the process.

We sold to the salvage agent, the V5 was given by the Insured to the Insurer and relayed to the salvage agent. The Insured dealt with us and us only.

I made a civil observation, you retorted with an attempt to demean me. Simples.

You clearly have an interest in playing some game with me, otherwise you would have left it alone.

Please stop citing "The contact of Insurance" as it would seem your grasp of the indemnity section of that contract is not what it should be.

You claim to have dealt with comprehensive claims "in the day" and yet you claim to have never heard of an Insurer deducting salvage from write off settlement and having the Insured deal with the salvage dealer direct? I find something in that very contradictory. I'd go so far as to say I find it impossible for someone with comprehensive claim experience to "have never heard" of salvage deduction.

In cases of settling third party claims, the method I suggested is used almost with exception and yet you "have never heard" of it?

You can't have dealt with very many comprehensive claim write offs if you "have never heard" of the manner of settlement I outlined and the OP received.

Eoin

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Out of curiosity, who are you insured with and how long did it take from the day of the accident to the day the cheque arrived in? Always good to hear of these timescales.

My wife is with Allianz via Frank Glennon Brokers. I think the check arrived about 9 or 10 days from the crash. The car was brought to a garage the day after it happened, and it was another couple of days before it was written off. So all in all, probably a week from being deemed written off to the check arriving.

Voodoomelon

Thats not bad at all, thanks for the reply.

Eoin

Yeah, the duration wasn't too bad - as the same company was insuring both parties, I reckon they wanted to settle it pretty quickly.

Bit of a drag being bounced from broker to insurance company and back - and as you can tell from the fact that I started this thread in the first place, they weren't that clear about what was going on.

As naff as it sounds, the main thing is that no one was hurt.

MugMugs

Profiler wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

To be honest, I've not interest in playing the who has the biggest dick game with you.

Any total loss settlements I ever dealt with in the day were via the Insurer. The Insured never dealt with the recovery agent. The contact of Insurance was between the Insurer and the Insured..... introducing a third party to the affair would have just led to complications to the process.

We sold to the salvage agent, the V5 was given by the Insured to the Insurer and relayed to the salvage agent. The Insured dealt with us and us only.

I made a civil observation, you retorted with an attempt to demean me. Simples.

You clearly have an interest in playing some game with me, otherwise you would have left it alone.

Please stop citing "The contact of Insurance" as it would seem your grasp of the indemnity section of that contract is not what it should be.

You claim to have dealt with comprehensive claims "in the day" and yet you claim to have never heard of an Insurer deducting salvage from write off settlement and having the Insured deal with the salvage dealer direct? I find something in that very contradictory. I'd go so far as to say I find it impossible for someone with comprehensive claim experience to "have never heard" of salvage deduction.

In cases of settling third party claims, the method I suggested is used almost with exception and yet you "have never heard" of it?

You can't have dealt with very many comprehensive claim write offs if you "have never heard" of the manner of settlement I outlined and the OP received.

Did you read what I wrote? Clearly not!