Regulation Ya or Nay.

OldmanMondeo

Thinking recently about the sales of kayaks / Canoes and should it be regulated. Within the last few years we have had the like of Lidl or Aldi selling Kayaks and gear. Sit on tops can be bought anywhere. To me I can see someone buying on of these and getting themselves in to difficulty or worse. Is it time for regulation on shops to only sell to experienced / trained paddlers? It would have to be up to the buyer to prove they have learnt the basics, which can be easily done.

I know this will not deter some people from buying / going kayaking when they have not been thought the dangers / safety of the sport.

Zuppy

Just curious but why? And I am going to play the devils advocate here and say this shouldn't be a nanny state or kayaking would be banned.

Most paddlers in my opinion are outside the ICU, if you count the sit on top revolution. add to this that some club paddlers have no qualification, then what would you consider the benchmark for selling the kayak? Level one?

tphase

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Sit on tops can be bought anywhere. To me I can see someone buying on of these and getting themselves in to difficulty or worse.

that horse has already bolted. Most of the "kayaking" incidents at sea reported involve sit on tops. A piece of paper from the ICU is not going to stop an idiot going to sea in an offshore wind on one of these.

Zuppy is right - what about all those paddlers outside the ICU who have no formal qualifications but may have done all the training and have years of experience (myself for example)? Not that such a regulation would actually work. The guys I would buy a new boat off won't ask me for a cert, no-one selling 2nd hand will ask for a cert, if you buy direct from a manufacturer abroad you won't need a cert, if you build your own boat you won't need a cert - need I go on?

I would suggest every sit on top should be sold with a mandatory offshore membership of the RNLI (about E70) and have a kayak safety booklet attached. (RNLI used to do one I think but I couldn't find it on their site).

I'd hate to end up with something like the French system - even though it's reasonably thought out in some respects, it still smacks of the nanny state. And our government would surely find a way to levy some form of tax administration fee.

A small bit of personal responsibility and cop on would go a long way....

OldmanMondeo

Zuppy wrote: »

Just curious but why?

Safety, that's all. I have the concern that someone will lose their life, maybe a family, due to inexperience / untrained people, buying kayaks / sit on tops / canoes etc going out on a lake, say Blessington, and getting into problems.

tphase, you mentioned about the certs, TBH I got me basic cert in the early 80's. This is probably no longer on file with the ICU / Canoe Ireland or what ever the're called now. But I have been a club member or register to the ICU since I started paddling.

Regulation would only be for new sales, second hand would be near on impossible. All experience paddlers / clubs know where to get the right gear so they would be covered.

Zuppy

Don't get me wrong, I think a bit of regulation would do well but considering the Gardai and Coast guard enfore the PFD law, I think we have gone as far as we can go for now.

I believe cyclists should be made to wear a helmet but if they don't have to and our flat water racers need to wear a PDF, not exactly fair.

I would like to remove the / any tax on PDF's and defibs initially and reduce the tax on first aid supplies. This on a phased basis along with the requirement for all road vehicles to car a basic first aid kit (German law) would save a lot of lives. Increase then the penalities for non compliance after the introductory phase.

Teach VHF courses on the cheap too

tphase

Zuppy wrote: »

Teach VHF courses on the cheap too

BIM are probably best value for VHF courses; did mine for less than E150 a few years ago. Contact one of the coastal training units to see where they are being run or you may be able to arrange one if you can get enough people together (that's what I did). Cost is a lot less than the I've seen charged for courses run via yacht clubs etc and the fee includes the exam.

Zuppy

I had second thought. Austerity and all. Reduce the adult pfd price and no tax on kids pfd's. And no idea how the CE mark works but could we make that free or cheaper for kids pfd's too.