ParkingTag.ie double charging

timmer3

have just sent this email to info@payzone.ie, will post any response i receive, has anyone else had this happen to them?

Hi,
My account username is XXX, vehicle XXX.
I was charged twice for sending a single park text message this morning as follows:

15-Sep-2012 11:56:37 2.18 Parking Yellow Zone: CARREGNO (6277750152158)
15-Sep-2012 11:56:38 0.20 SMS Reminder: 353865555555
15-Sep-2012 11:57:39 2.18 Parking Yellow Zone: CARREGNO (6277750152158)
15-Sep-2012 11:57:40 0.20 SMS Reminder: 353865555555

Please refund the duplicate charge immediately and provide an explanation for how this happened. I have attached a photo record of the text message sent from my phone, this photo confirms that only one text was sent from my phone, I immediately received two replies and was suspicious of a duplicate charge, which I confirmed after logging in to my account. I cannot believe that your system is capable of double-charging for the same car for the same zone at the same time. It goes without saying that duplicate payment prevention should be built in to your systems. I intend to follow this matter up with ComReg because this can only be seen as profiteering. Under FOI I can make a request for the number of such duplicate charges made to my account, I hope this won’t be necessary and that you can provide a thorough response. I’m sure you can understand my dissatisfaction on discovering this. I wonder how much money PayZone have made from such double charges?

Regards
...

AltAccount

So, at the moment we've established that they double charged once, and may possibly refund without quibble or hesitation.

Is it really time for a "beware" thread and contacting ComReg?

Hysterical much?

Tails142

Hilarious post OP, i use the tag all the time and have never been double charged...


also you won't need a FOI request to see how many times you've been double charged, you can log into your account online and check this thing called YOUR STATEMENT!

I'm betting you sent the text twice by accident

timmer3

i definitely didn't send the text twice. i checked my o2 records and there was only one text. ok, so the comreg / foi reference is not substantial but it will probably help to get a proper reply. don't get me wrong, it is a good service and i use it all the time. however it's a clear bug in their systems that allows for double charging (whether from accidental double text, or if the network sent it twice), which is serious in my view.

i simply wanted to draw people's attention to this in case there are others who are being overcharged. companies who overcharge should be held to account. i'm sure they will refund the few quid and i'll post back whatever reply i get.

i've removed 'beware' from the subject of the thread as i take the point that it is unnecessary.

n97 mini

Jeez, if I got an email like that I'd move it to the bottom of the to-do list.

Also, ComReg is the regulator of telecoms. They don't regulate parking.

coylemj

timmer3 wrote: »

I wonder how much money PayZone have made from such double charges?

In my case not a cent and I've been in that scheme since the start.

Why stop at Comreg? Talk to Joe.....

Just ring them FFS, they are a nice bunch to deal with and I'm sure will sort you out. The way you've gone about is is totally OTT, 90 minutes after the event you're posting an indignant complaint in a public forum, get a life!

LeftBlank

I sincerely doubt that Payzone are subject to the FOI Act.

richardjjd

Interesting post - I was doubled charged three times over the course of a week in May. I noticed it in July when I was claiming some expenses. Phoned Parking Tag and they sent me a cheque for the queried amount. No quibble, took a week or so to get the cheque.

jesus_thats_gre

I have no doubt that this is a mistake but they should be proactively analysing their data to identify instances of double charging that are as blatant as the one that OP spotted.

timmer3

ok so my email was OTT. and comreg are nothing to do with it. and of course i know how to access my blinking statement, how else did i confirm the double charge. and they refunded the charges. but they still haven't acknowledged that their system is built to to swallow payments without providing any service. i was just royally pissed off that i was being double-charged, and it turns out i'm not the only one. if anyone looks carefully at their statement they will probably find they have wasted money using this service. let me illustrate:

example 1: (happened me earlier)
10:00am, send text "park yellow 60"
10:01am, send text "park yellow 60"

result: you have just wasted 59 minutes of parking. they take the money and provide no service. how is that fair? how can anyone think this is reasonable? as a software developer it would be painfully easy to respond with a text message informing the customer they are already paid up in whatever zone, or at the very least to allocate a consecutive top up so the customer is not wasting their money.

example 2: (a lot more common, i'd say this has happened everyone)
10:00am, send text "park yellow 60"
10:50am, reminder text received, ten minutes before expiry
10:50am, sent text "park yellow 10" because you want to extend for ten more minutes.
You have wasted your money again, because the payment is swallowed and does not extend your time at all. you have to wait until your time has actually expired and then remember to come back and text them again.

turns out FOI is only applicable to government bodies you learn something new everyday

coylemj

timmer3 wrote: »

if anyone looks carefully at their statement they will probably find they have wasted money using this service. let me illustrate:

example 1: (happened me earlier)
10:00am, send text "park yellow 60"
10:01am, send text "park yellow 60"

result: you have just wasted 59 minutes of parking. they take the money and provide no service. how is that fair? how can anyone think this is reasonable? as a software developer it would be painfully easy to respond with a text message informing the customer they are already paid up in whatever zone, or at the very least to allocate a consecutive top up so the customer is not wasting their money.

You're spot on there, the system does not recognise payment for overlapping periods so either the city council or the payment processing company (Payzone) keeps the money, my money is on the latter.

If you send in a text message or call them and press the buttons while you are paid up, the new period you buy starts immediately so you lose any minutes remaining on the first period. They could add the new time onto the existing time or they could credit or refund you with cost of the unexpired time but they do neither.

In an earlier thread on the subject, one of the people who developed the system vaguely suggested that the s/w developers highlighted the issue but were told to ignore it. I suspect legal reasons were behind the vagueness but reading between the lines it was pretty obvious what he was saying. This is what he said and this is the guy who claims he wrote the parkingtag s/w ....

Suffice it to say, I pointed out issues to the project leaders [not in my company but you can guess who] at the time.

timmer3

if anyone wants to find out how many of their parking minutes have disappeared down the black hole, you can use the attached excel template to help with the calculations.

export your Recent Transactions month by month from parkingtag.ie (use the Excel invoice link) and copy/paste the cells under "Date / Amount / Description" into the yellow cells in the template.

after you've imported all your transactions, sort the cells in ascending date order. it will identify the zone listed in the description, look up the rate, work out the minutes and compare the end time to the next transaction time to see if it overlaps.

i've been aware of this issue for some time and have consciously made an effort not to waste minutes, so over my last 2 years only a few hours has been wasted. however i expect many customers would not be aware, and would have lost considerably more money. ample grounds for a refund if you ask me.

Bogger77

I assume that using 2 or more parking consecutive periods without moving your car is against the parking by laws?

timmer3

Bogger77 wrote: »

I assume that using 2 or more parking consecutive periods without moving your car is against the parking by laws?

Section 11
A vehicle parked in a ticket parking place during operational hours shall not be so parked for a period longer than the maximum period for which parking is permitted on that day in that ticket parking place as indicated on the appropriate pay and display parking ticket machine located on the public road in which the vehicle is parked or located on an adjacent public road, where indicated by a sign.

Quote from parkingtag.ie:
Parking Tag is a Pay by Phone solution provided in the Dublin City area. Once registered, you simply text or call to pay for parking. All it takes is another quick SMS to extend parking, which means no more rushing out to top-up the meter! We will even remind you by SMS 10 minutes before your parking time expires.

So, they actively encourage extending your time on the same parking space.

coylemj

Bogger77 wrote: »

I assume that using 2 or more parking consecutive periods without moving your car is against the parking by laws?

Topping up is not allowed if you've exceeded the maximum time for that street, it does not mean that you have to pay in one go so the sign on a street could indicate maximum parking two hours but that doesn't mean that you have to pay upfront for the two hours. If you pay for one hour and then decide to stay, you can pay for another hour and that's allowed.

The system in Dublin city allows you to pay for a specific colour zone and if the time hasn't expired, you can move the car to another street in the same or a cheaper zone and the original payment (ticket on the dash or parking tag payment) will cover you. That means that if you pay for two hours in the yellow zone, you can park anywhere until the two hours is up, regardless of how many streets you park in.

timmer3

response from ParkingTag / Payzone

...
The reminder text is a benefit of the service offered to let Parking Tag customers know that their parking will expire. Customers are not required to send a text immediately to extend their parking. I understand that this may incur double charges for some, however if you extended at the meter with ten minutes to go the same charges would apply.
This is an isolated case and we had no operator outages. Therefore, I am unable to confirm if our systems will be amended immediately because of this incident. But I will ensure that it is looked at and request that a code is created to reject duplicate SMS received in our next release.
Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and please be assured that it will be dealt with.
Kind Regards,

and my final reply:

I was hoping that Payzone as the service provider would take the responsible initiative to investigate other cases of over charging, rather than leaving it up to your customers to check their own statements. When the technology option is so simple to allow for consecutive top ups, I don’t accept the justification of comparing with the paper ticket system where customers may also lose minutes if they top up before their time has actually expired. It seems that Payzone are pocketing the money that customers are unknowingly wasting with top ups. Although the duplicate text may be an isolated incident, my core complaint remains that your system is designed to void existing parking minutes (without refund) when topping up.
Regards