Degree Not Recognised by the Teaching Council - University said it was . . .

tracyc12

Hi,
I completed an honours degree this year. I applied for a place for a PDE to be told that my degree isn't recognised for teaching purposes.

When I was applying for University I checked the University website and it said that it was recognised for the subjects I wanted. I also emailed them to confirm this.

Then in second year I emailed them to check if I needed to take any specific modules. They replied saying that the course was fully approved and so regardless of the modules that I have chosen I will be able to teach those three subjects. I still have all of those emails.

Now the time has come to actually use this degree, that I spend 3 years completing to be told that its useless to me.

Is there anything I can do?

DylanII

Wow, so you just spend 3 years of your life doing a degree to be told that its pretty much useless to you.

Maybe you could ask for advice from the legal forum? If you can prove that they misled you and said it was recognised then I'd say you could sue. - For the fees for another degree, cost of living during those three years, and the loss that you would have for joining teaching 3 years later eg you would be on a lower points on the salary scale for the rest of your life.

RealJohn

OP, what was the degree and what did you expect to be able to teach?

whiteandlight

Don't think there's any degree that qualifies you to teach three subjects?

rainbowtrout

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Don't think there's any degree that qualifies you to teach three subjects?

Mine does : Biology, Chemistry and Agricultural Science (BSc Education, UL).

What is your degree OP, and what are the subjects.

Ultimately it's the Teaching Council that decide not the university.

whiteandlight

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Don't think there's any degree that qualifies you to teach three subjects?

Mine does : Biology, Chemistry and Agricultural Science (BSc Education, UL).

What is your degree OP, and what are the subjects.

Ultimately it's the Teaching Council that decide not the university.

I stand corrected! Just judging from other threads in here, particularly the sciences where you seem to be qualified in two out of three LC sciences

iuil19

I have a BSc(Gen) that qualifies me to teach Biology, Chemistry & Maths since the Teaching Council doesn't recognise my BSc(Hons) in Applied Biology as it's from the UK

luimneachgurl

Can someone help me in what is the best case scenario for me to only study Irish for the leaving cert in order to apply for the Hibernia primary teaching course. I am currently in UL in Limerick in my final year studying English and History but never got the C3 in Honours Irish. I don't think I would like to teach secondary but primary if anyone knows the best way to go around it.

seavill

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I stand corrected! Just judging from other threads in here, particularly the sciences where you seem to be qualified in two out of three LC sciences

Woodwork course in UL, can teach Construction Studies, DCG and Technology (LC) (Woodwork, TG and Technology JC)

lennyloulou

OP- my hubbie had the same problem.... not much you can do. I do not want to upset you but there is little you can do. We have found out that alot of Colleges will take you on for the H.Dip just to get keep up numbers/grants in to the college etc.
They dont really give a toss about whether your degree is acepted by the TC later.
Believe me we met with the college where hubbie's degree was done and the Uni where the dip was done later. The Uni where he did the dip had granted the dip/ certified secondary teacher in 2 subjects but the Tc would not recognise one of the subjects later coz he hadnt done enough hous (poetry) in the degree.. aload of crap!
The Uni where he did the Dip avoided us like the plague..UCG!!!! We made appointments/wrote letters to clarify it some more. a waste of time.
the TC are a right shower!

DylanII

Maybe if you Got in contact with the university and see if they would allow you to do the extra modules that would allow you to teach?

My degree allows me to teach 4 subjects. I'm doing finance and economics with a minor geography at NUIM.I can teach Business, Accounting, Economics and Geography.

highly1111

DylanII wrote: »

Maybe if you Got in contact with the university and see if they would allow you to do the extra modules that would allow you to teach?

My degree allows me to teach 4 subjects. I'm doing finance and economics with a minor geography at NUIM.I can teach Business, Accounting, Economics and Geography.

Be careful about that. Don't just take that at face value - you need 54 ECTS for each of those subjects so choose your modules carefully.

OP - who advised your university that your degree meant you could teach those subjects? Was it the TC or their predecessors? This is incredibly important. The TC have not reviewed 90% of degrees since they came into existence so in effect they have changed the criteria without informing the colleges who therefore have not updated their information. This is a massive massive issue and one I would seek legal advice on.

I had MASSIVE issues with the TC which only got resolved once I got my solicitor onto them and basically I was like a dog with a bone.

Do NOT give up. They are a complete shower of sh1tes

lennyloulou

i agree with the above statement... meant to say my hubbie is on 4th yr in school teaching the one 'recognised' subject....he feels too old now to go back to complete the 'poetry' and other modules in the degree in order to make up the second subject. Tc a crowd of fcukers

doc_17

Did they identify ant specific shortfalls? If they did ask them can you do modules to correct this.

whiteandlight

If you need 54 credits per subject Im assuming that those with three subjects have done a four year course? Or is it just that the with sciences and technologies the TC allow some modules to be counted twice?

And to the OP I would think maybe that the route to go down would be to find out what modules you need to complete to be recognised and get the college to provide them free of charge if you Have written proof they mislead you?

Seanchai

lennyloulou wrote: »

my hubbie is on 4th yr in school teaching the one 'recognised' subject....he feels too old now to go back to complete the 'poetry' and other modules in the degree in order to make up the second subject. Tc a crowd of fcukers

In fairness, while I have fundamental problems with the TC - most particularly its charging €200 to numerous people to "evaluate" precisely the same course - the rules apply to us all: we all need 54 ECTS in order to register with the TC to teach a subject. I had to go back and get additional credits to add subjects. It was not easy to do that while working full time. There were people on my evening degree course in their late 50s. It would not be fair if people who don't put in that effort can have the same rights as those of us who put in the effort.

Seanchai

tracyc12 wrote: »

Hi,
I completed an honours degree this year. I applied for a place for a PDE to be told that my degree isn't recognised for teaching purposes.

When I was applying for University I checked the University website and it said that it was recognised for the subjects I wanted. I also emailed them to confirm this.

Then in second year I emailed them to check if I needed to take any specific modules. They replied saying that the course was fully approved and so regardless of the modules that I have chosen I will be able to teach those three subjects. I still have all of those emails.

Now the time has come to actually use this degree, that I spend 3 years completing to be told that its useless to me.

Is there anything I can do?

To be frank, at this stage everybody should know that the TC, and the TC alone, is the body which decides what course is acceptable for teaching purposes. Consulting them should be the first call of anybody who starts a degree with the intention of teaching a subject in that degree. The colleges want the fee income and, like salespeople everywhere, they can be prone to telling porkies in order to get sales, i.e. a prospective student's tuition fee.

Having said that, if you have such assurances in writing from your university about their course, you could be in a very strong position to at least have your tuition fee returned. If previous behaviour from the TC is anything to go on, they will point out that they made no assurance about that course to you and are therefore not liable for anything and unfortunately you'll have to go back and get their required 54 ECTS. All the best.

iuil19

Musicmental85 wrote: »

If you need 54 credits per subject Im assuming that those with three subjects have done a four year course? Or is it just that the with sciences and technologies the TC allow some modules to be counted twice?

Mine is a 3 year course with no overlap between the three subjects but it's 20 years old and I don't think it exists any more.

The OP's issue is with the awarding Institute promoting the course under false pretenses. If the OP has it in writing from them (& email counts) that three subjects would be recognised, I think there may be grounds for legal action at least for the cost of having the degree certified by the TC. The TC are not the bad guys here (for once?).

seavill

lennyloulou wrote: »

i agree with the above statement... meant to say my hubbie is on 4th yr in school teaching the one 'recognised' subject....he feels too old now to go back to complete the 'poetry' and other modules in the degree in order to make up the second subject. Tc a crowd of fcukers

I'm a bit shocked by this attitude. What is he going to do if they change the whole course and he has to go and learn a whole new set of material, just say I'm too old I'm not teaching that new stuff?

There were woodwork and tech graphic teachers in their 50's when the new DCG course came in, not only had to adapt to a new course but had to learn a whole new way of teaching and learning with the introduction of SolidWorks (3D CAD), incorporate computers into their lessons which they hadn't done in 30 years, and produce brand new projects no one had ever seen before.

In teaching you should be constantly learning and adapting. Saying after 4 years I know enough and couldn't be bothered with any more is surprising to say the least.

Anyway back on topic, I agree with the others everyone should be fully aware these days that its the TC has the say no one else. If the college have blatantly lied in writing then go after them but as someone said maybe the TC are not the bad guys for once.

highly1111

seavill wrote: »

.

Anyway back on topic, I agree with the others everyone should be fully aware these days that its the TC has the say no one else. If the college have blatantly lied in writing then go after them but as someone said maybe the TC are not the bad guys for once.

The issue is where did the university get their information from? Did they check with the TC before they advised you? If so, it's the TC fault for misleading you. If not, it's the colleges fault. However a 3rd issue is that the TC may have changed the criteria and never informed the university. I know for a fact that they did not inform DCU when they applied the 54 ECT credit rule so DCU and the PAC website both said that X degree would qualify you for X subjects (with your dip obviously) but then when you went to register you were told a different story. To be fair most people aren't even aware of the TC's existence when they start their primary degree. They choose it based on the college & PAC documentation. Which was issued to them by the TC. This is a massively important point

rainbowtrout

DylanII wrote: »

Maybe if you Got in contact with the university and see if they would allow you to do the extra modules that would allow you to teach?

My degree allows me to teach 4 subjects. I'm doing finance and economics with a minor geography at NUIM.I can teach Business, Accounting, Economics and Geography.

I don't see any degree on the Teaching Council list that allows you to teach Geography.

There are two business degrees on it BA Finance which allows you to teach Accounting, Business and Economics

and BA Finance and Accounting which also allows you to teach Accounting, Business and Economics. Nothing about Geography there.


I can only assume that your economics modules are shared with people who take modules in Economic Geography. You wouldn't have any modules completed in Physical Geography. Who told you would be able to teach Geography?

rainbowtrout

Musicmental85 wrote: »

If you need 54 credits per subject Im assuming that those with three subjects have done a four year course? Or is it just that the with sciences and technologies the TC allow some modules to be counted twice?

And to the OP I would think maybe that the route to go down would be to find out what modules you need to complete to be recognised and get the college to provide them free of charge if you Have written proof they mislead you?

In my case I suspect that is the reason. It is a four year degree, but the requirements for Ag Science and Biology overlap a lot. So much so that before the new biology syllabus came out a few years back students weren't allowed to take both subjects for Leaving Cert.

Both subjects would have plant and animal physiology, genetics, microbiology and ecology in common so that's probably the reason I have three subjects.

rainbowtrout

seavill wrote: »

I'm a bit shocked by this attitude. What is he going to do if they change the whole course and he has to go and learn a whole new set of material, just say I'm too old I'm not teaching that new stuff?

There were woodwork and tech graphic teachers in their 50's when the new DCG course came in, not only had to adapt to a new course but had to learn a whole new way of teaching and learning with the introduction of SolidWorks (3D CAD), incorporate computers into their lessons which they hadn't done in 30 years, and produce brand new projects no one had ever seen before.

In teaching you should be constantly learning and adapting. Saying after 4 years I know enough and couldn't be bothered with any more is surprising to say the least.

Anyway back on topic, I agree with the others everyone should be fully aware these days that its the TC has the say no one else. If the college have blatantly lied in writing then go after them but as someone said maybe the TC are not the bad guys for once.

Totally agree. There are maths teachers who hadn't looked at statistics beyond the very basic standard deviation since they completed their degrees 30 years ago and had to go back on all of that stuff to be able to teach Project Maths.

When the English syllabus changed 10 years ago or thereabouts a whole load of poets and novels were introduced onto the syllabus which replaced Soundings which had been around for 30 years. Teachers had to go away and read those novels and poems and get up to speed on them.

As for lennyloulou's husband, if he feels like he can't be bothered doing a few modules to secure a second subject after only 4 years in a school, he'll be in for a rude awakening when the new Junior Cert syllabus comes in in a few years, or if he loses his job/needs to move school at some point in the future or he's asked to teach something that he's not qualified or experienced in.

Gotta keep learning.

chippers

Musicmental85 wrote: »

If you need 54 credits per subject Im assuming that those with three subjects have done a four year course? Or is it just that the with sciences and technologies the TC allow some modules to be counted twice?

Economics gives you economics (LC) and Business Studies (JC)

whiteandlight

chippers wrote: »

Musicmental85 wrote: »

If you need 54 credits per subject Im assuming that those with three subjects have done a four year course? Or is it just that the with sciences and technologies the TC allow some modules to be counted twice?

Economics gives you economics (LC) and Business Studies (JC)

It was more the three leaving cert subjects that surprised me-I knew about this one as it leads to a lot of people perpetuating the myth that you can be qualified to teach a subject to junior cert level when business studies is a stand alone junior cert subject

rainbowtrout

chippers wrote: »

Economics gives you economics (LC) and Business Studies (JC)

I think it's more in relation to being qualified in three Leaving Cert subjects. In the vast majority of cases, being qualified in a Leaving Cert subject also means a person is qualified in a junior cert subject equivalent.

Where this might be different is Business and Science, where both junior cert subjects split into several leaving cert subjects.

So conceivably a person taking a degree in Applied Physics could be qualified to teach LC Physics but not JC Science as there was no biology in their degree. I'd assume the same scenario can happen in specific business degrees.

Bobsammy

rainbowtrout wrote: »

chippers wrote: »

Economics gives you economics (LC) and Business Studies (JC)

I think it's more in relation to being qualified in three Leaving Cert subjects. In the vast majority of cases, being qualified in a Leaving Cert subject also means a person is qualified in a junior cert subject equivalent.

Where this might be different is Business and Science, where both junior cert subjects split into several leaving cert subjects.

So conceivably a person taking a degree in Applied Physics could be qualified to teach LC Physics but not JC Science as there was no biology in their degree. I'd assume the same scenario can happen in specific business degrees.

I'm open to correction but I don't think it works like that. Being recognised to teach any Science or Business subject at Leaving Cert automatically confers recognition for Science or Business at Junior Cert. I know lots of people who did engineering degrees and teach Leaving Cert Physics, they also teach Junior Cert Science - and are certified by the Teaching Council to do so - despite never doing Biology or Chemistry at college.