The Law on Short Term Squatting in Ireland

sokie26

Im trying to find out as much as I possibly can about short term squatting In lreland. What I am looking for is the law on squatting in vacant property for any amount of time from one day to two years. Its hard to find anything about it. Can anyone tell me what the response of the gardai, owners, council, courts have been previously.

I am not looking for the law on "adverse possession", this refers to someone who is claiming squatters rights for a period of 12 years or more with the purpose of owning the property.

Any information VERY appreciated.

chops018

Anyone claiming possession of property for 12 years or more comes under the law of adverse possession. To which the possessor will have to prove that he is in possession of the land and this possession must be adverse insofar as the possessor has no permission to be there, and there must be a discontinuance of the landowners use and enjoyment of the land. Along with this the possessor must prove that he had the requisite animus possidendi - an intention to possess the land to the exclusion of all others - erecting a fence, a gate with a chain and lock etc. Any activity by the landowner with regard the land in question will interrupt the time of the squatter and the time starts again.

The only way someone can claim adverse possession for being there 1 or 2 years that I can think of is if they were a successive squatter i.e. there was a person there before them for say 10 years and then another squatter took over, the time continues to this squatter.

Grolschevik

sokie26 wrote: »

Im trying to find out as much as I possibly can about short term squatting In lreland. What I am looking for is the law on squatting in vacant property for any amount of time from one day to two years. Its hard to find anything about it. Can anyone tell me what the response of the gardai, owners, council, courts have been previously.

I am not looking for the law on "adverse possession", this refers to someone who is claiming squatters rights for a period of 12 years or more with the purpose of owning the property.

Any information VERY appreciated.

I think he/she only wants to know what the law says about someone staying/camping/living in a vacant property in the short term, with no view to eventually acquiring rights over it. And the possible reaction of the authorities to this.

chops018

Grolschevik wrote: »

I think he/she only wants to know what the law says about someone staying/camping/living in a vacant property in the short term, with no view to eventually acquiring rights over it.

I misread the second part, I thought the OP meant that the issue she was asking about referred to someone looking to own the property rather she was stating what adverse possession was.

Anyway I have never heard of short term squatting. Unless licences over a property comes into this sphere?

sokie26

Thanks so much for your reply. Every bit of information is vital but I am looking for information on short term squatting- squatting in a house or empty building not with the intention of ever owning or taking possession of it. Just as a place to live until you are told to move. I am trying to find out what the process is for being moved from the property legally.

For example:

Mr A has no interest in one of his many houses on a public street and it is in disrepair. He is not trying to sell it and has no plans in the future for it. As far as he is concerned it does not exist.

Mr B has no bed for the night, he finds an open window at the side of this property and fits through- he has no criminal intent and has now broken any window/door to get in- he sleeps there that night and decides he does not want to leave any time soon. He has the locks changed and calls the electricity and gas company to put the bills in his name. Cleans up the place and is a happy chappy for some months.

Mr A gets wind of this and calls over for a chat. He wants MR B gone on principal.

What happens next? Do the Gardai have any power to move MR B off the property? What is the legal route for Mr A? Any info on what happens next is what I am looking for. I think trespassing is legal in Ireland without criminal intent - maybe I am very wrong on this. What is the average time on moving Mr B on his merry way?

I think the OP is asking what the Gardai would do if he/she bedded down in an empty NAMA property or some such for a few weeks.

Grolschevik

chops018 wrote: »

Anyway I have never heard of short term squatting.

Unlawful, often communal, occupation of an often derelict building: all the rage in the early '70s counterculture era, though probably not so popular in Ireland.

sokie26

This is my first post so please forgive me if its not thought out well and the confusion. I am thankful for any replies

I do not think squatting is even the right word for this type of situation I am taking about but squatting is the only word I know to use for it. Squatting, I think, refers to occupying a property for 12 or more years and taking possession of the property after that time. I think.

dermot_sheehan

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0009/sec0024.html#sec24

Fe1exams

-Breaking into a house is a criminal offence - S 2(1) Criminal Damage Act, 1991 (10 yrs max sentence)

-Trespassing is a criminal offence - Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994
(12 Months max sentence)

If you can do it without trespassing or criminally damaging it, & the owner cant be found i dont think you are breaking any law?

If Mr A wants you gone you gotta leave as your trespassing! end off! he might call the gardai or else illegally employ some heavies to kick u out at which point you get up and go... (not legal but what happens in the uk)

NoQuarter

Fe1exams wrote: »

-Trespassing is a criminal offence - Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994
(12 Months max sentence)

There is an actus of causing fear or being likly to cause fear in that section. I wouldnt imagine it applies here.

ynotonavillus

Squatting as the OP refers to, has been made a criminal offence in the UK recently.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/features/squatting-new-criminal-offence

Possibly as our dole is higher than in UK we may have some Squatt Tourism soon...

sokie26

Thanks guys for all your comments. I'm trying very hard to work out what the situation would be in the example about. What I am trying to figure out also is what the response of the Gardai, court or council has been in the past. Its quite an interesting subject. I know its gone in England and Wales now but I do not think that will mean people will not do it. Anyway, i'll keep trying to put together the law and the results of it if you get caught.

Robbo

I seem to remember a rather nice Georgian building on Henrietta St being a squat. Knock on the door and ask for a cup of tea and a chat?

sokie26

That does seem like the best way to get information on it would be to talk to people living in a squat. Will keep an eye out for people but its hard sometimes to know what the story is and if people are willing to talk. Good idea, will try it. Thanks

bobbo23

Well, did you go for a chat and a cup of tea?

SB2013

Decorating a house without consent is actually criminal damage. So you'd be looking at a burglary and criminal damage charge.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

SB2013

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Wasn't charged with criminal damage and it was only a district court case.

ynotonavillus

SB2013 wrote: »

Wasn't charged with criminal damage and it was only a district court case.

Maybe because he did not do any criminal damage!!

SB2013

ynotonavillus wrote: »

Maybe because he did not do any criminal damage!!

If i repainted the front of your house black during the night would you think I damaged your home?

ynotonavillus

SB2013 wrote: »

If i repainted the front of your house black during the night would you think I damaged your home?

If you were a painter sent to paint my neighbor's house and mistakenly painted my house would that be criminal damage? it would not.

If you decided to paint my house as a present for me and genuinely believed that I would consent, and were objectively improving my house, I think that would not be criminal damage.

I think the key would be to establish damage, and either intent or recklessness.

2.—(1) A person who without lawful excuse damages any property belonging to another intending to damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be damaged shall be guilty of an offence.

amieethekidd

check this link out, u are entitled to go to Henrietta place to check who owns what property tbh its very dangerous to just squat in a place you dont know who is the owner, whereas squatting/staying temp in a council owned property is quite different

Wheelnut

sokie26 wrote: »

... What I am trying to figure out also is what the response of the Gardai, court or council has been in the past...

If it's a private house the council would have no function. They would only take action if it were a council-owned house. They can not take action on behalf of a private property owner.

J Appleseed

amieethekidd wrote: »

check this link out, u are entitled to go to Henrietta place to check who owns what property tbh its very dangerous to just squat in a place you dont know who is the owner, whereas squatting/staying temp in a council owned property is quite different

I know this is an old link, but came up when I went looking for info on this topic. Would really appreciate any info on occupying a council house that has been vacant for years. The council claim it's too expensive to repair but seems habitable. Amiee if you're out there can you please re-send that link you refer to in your post.

JA