american bulldog

callmekenneth

is american bulldog on the restricted breeds list? it doesnt look like it

SillyMangoX

American pit bull terrier is but not the American bulldog, just be careful sourcing one if thats what you are researching, a lot of AmStaffs are described as being an American bull dog

BillyMitchel

No it's not, but it's would be seen as a type or cross of a bull breed so same rules apply.

Sooner the better they amend this law or get rid of it altogether. Not many people follow it and it's certainly not enforced. Plus it makes no difference to anything anyway!

DBB

BillyMitchel wrote: »

No it's not, but it's would be seen as a type or cross of a bull breed so same rules apply.

Sooner the better they amend this law or get rid of it altogether. Not many people follow it and it's certainly not enforced. Plus it makes no difference to anything anyway!

Isn't the Americay Bulldog a breed in its own right? Therefore, it's not viewed legally as a strain or a cross of any of the listed bull breeds. So, the restricted breed laws should not apply in this case.
There's one here locally OP, I'll try to get talking to the owners and see where they got him. They are really handsome dogs.
Are you dipping the toe with your opening post, by any chance CMK? ;-)

DamagedTrax

the ambull is definitly not restricted.

there's 5 main types of american bulldog.

the southern - classic olde bulldogge
the johnson type - very bully looking
the painter - smaller, bred for fighting. rumoured to be mixed with pits
the scott - quite athletic, similiar muscle structure to the apbt
the hybrid - as it suggests, a hybrid of the above bred for specific purposes.

BillyMitchel

DBB wrote: »

BillyMitchel wrote: »

No it's not, but it's would be seen as a type or cross of a bull breed so same rules apply.

Sooner the better they amend this law or get rid of it altogether. Not many people follow it and it's certainly not enforced. Plus it makes no difference to anything anyway!

Isn't the Americay Bulldog a breed in its own right? Therefore, it's not viewed legally as a strain or a cross of any of the listed bull breeds. So, the restricted breed laws should not apply in this case.
There's one here locally OP, I'll try to get talking to the owners and see where they got him. They are really handsome dogs.
Are you dipping the toe with your opening post, by any chance CMK? ;-)

Of course it is and I totally agree. Say that to the authorities though!! Isn't that the cast that happened with that case up the north that became real famous. He was taken on PTS on the grounds that he was "type"

But a Scott breed AB beside a PB and most can't tell the difference, therefore the authorities would class it as type.

When this law is studied it makes it even more ridiculous.

Sorry just to add, living in the south the law isn't enforced so I wouldn't worry about it.

DamagedTrax

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Of course it is and I totally agree. Say that to the authorities though!! Isn't that the cast that happened with that case up the north that became real famous. He was taken on PTS on the grounds that he was "type"

But a Scott breed AB beside a PB and most can't tell the difference, therefore the authorities would class it as type.

When this law is studied it makes it even more ridiculous.

Sorry just to add, living in the south the law isn't enforced so I wouldn't worry about it.

there is no law to enforce. we dont have a type law here. thats uk only. the dog must be a cross or full bred restricted breed for the law to apply.

BillyMitchel

DamagedTrax wrote: »

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Of course it is and I totally agree. Say that to the authorities though!! Isn't that the cast that happened with that case up the north that became real famous. He was taken on PTS on the grounds that he was "type"

But a Scott breed AB beside a PB and most can't tell the difference, therefore the authorities would class it as type.

When this law is studied it makes it even more ridiculous.

Sorry just to add, living in the south the law isn't enforced so I wouldn't worry about it.

there is no law to enforce. we dont have a type law here. thats uk only. the dog must be a cross or full bred restricted breed for the law to apply.

Strains or Crosses is the exact wording and certain strains of the AB could be considered by the authorities to be a PB.

Then you could go into all the history of the AB and all the types and argue was the PB ever used. It's history is murky at best. Is it the true old time bulldog? Was it developed down the southern states with the PB and other breeds. It's history is amazing and the different stories you see or hear.

Looks at the 3 main types Johnson, Scott, Ol Southern White. They look like different breeds. Was another dog used to give it that strain? Was the PB in Scott lines to make it more athletic?

Up until a few years ago the AKC didn't recognise the breed, I've no idea if they still do or not.

DamagedTrax

as the american bulldog is a full recognised breed over here, it cant be considered a strain or cross of any of the restricted breeds.

it doesnt matter what type it is. if the apbt was used in certain strains it was long ago and any blood would be long gone (obviously im talking general breeders and not dogmen here). fancy multi generations pedigrees are lovely to look at but really dont mean anything after 2/3 back. the blood gets diluted to the point of non existence unless bred back on itself.

one thing about that law is that it doesnt allow for ambiguity like the uk laws. its very straight forward, if the dog is full bred and not on the list then the law doesnt apply to it.

BillyMitchel

DamagedTrax wrote: »

as the american bulldog is a full recognised breed over here, it cant be considered a strain or cross of any of the restricted breeds.

one thing about that law is that it doesnt allow for ambiguity like the uk laws. its very straight forward, if the dog is full bred and not on the list then the law doesnt apply to it.

If the dog is not papered or registered and something happened and it went to court to you honestly think the authorities wouldn't say its a PB of some sort? The owner knows what it is, can he prove it? Can the courts prove it is? Chances of this happening are probably .1% but still! It could happen.

As I already said restricted breed or not it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference because the law is not enforced.

DamagedTrax

the law is enforced plenty around dublin but it seems to be breed specific. ive never seen a german shepard stopped for no muzzle but our staffs and pits are always getting hassle

i get stopped at least once a month cause i carry my bitches muzzle rather than make her wear it. where are you based?

BillyMitchel

DamagedTrax wrote: »

the law is enforced plenty around dublin. i get stopped at least once a month cause i carry my bitches muzzle rather than make her wear it.

Really? Do you think that because they see you with a muzzle that they might think she needs it and that could play apart?

What breed if you don't mind me asking? Me or my family have PBs or SBT for over 20 years and not once have we ever been stopped for muzzles in Dublin. One time I had a SBT and a PB with me and I passed two guards without a muzzle on either and they played with the dogs for about 10minutes, loved it and said enjoy the walk! Would the normal on the beat garda even know the law or what each restricted breed looks like? Not everyone loves dogs.

DamagedTrax

she's a big staffie. gentle dog though. mate's PBs are the same, well bred dogs with no human aggression.

its the area we live in though. dublin 8. when i go over to the parents on griffith avenue i never get a word said to me!

BillyMitchel

Ah only down the road!

Suppose it's luck of the day. Although I've seen some proper gob****es with dogs they clearly can't control and do be thinking to myself where are the guards to enforce this law!!

DamagedTrax

plenty of them up the flats near where i am. plenty of pits running about the place off lead.

problem is the cops dont bother with them, its not worth the hassle. instead they stop people like me who keep their dog under control and on a lead. <snip>:rolleyes:

Mod note: DamagedTrax, whilst you may not like the way the Guards seem to stop you, if you have a problem with how they do things, complain to their local superintendent or higher powers. But do not call them offensive names here.
Please do not reply to this on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

fatmammycat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

she's a big staffie. gentle dog though. mate's PBs are the same, well bred dogs with no human aggression.

its the area we live in though. dublin 8. when i go over to the parents on griffith avenue i never get a word said to me!

I've been stopped with my guy when he was 3 months old - D 8 – and told he had to be muzzled, he's a GSD. ( I didn't realise pups had to be muzzled too) The warden was not being in any way a dick about it, but there you go. It's a ridiculous pointless unjust law, even he more or less admitted it.

DamagedTrax

surprised they asked for a pup to be muzzled.

i agree, pointless law. even more so if the doggie is on a lead

fatmammycat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

surprised they asked for a pup to be muzzled.

i agree, pointless law. even more so if the doggie is on a lead

It's the law apparently, I thought they needed to be older too, but apparently not it seems. My guy is really sweet-tempered too, loves dogs and people and cats and oh just about everything.

callmekenneth

"Are you dipping the toe with your opening post, by any chance CMK? ;-)"

toe is well and truly dipped DBB, took this boy on as a foster a month or so back... i dont think he'll be moving on. as damaged trax mentioned regarding the various types, this one is a Scott Type. i have a muzzle for him but only use it to take hannibal lector type pics, i dont have him wear it when we're out. he's got an awesome temperament.

callmekenneth

my reason for the post was i had heard different opinions on whether or not he should be muzzled. he certainly looks like he should come under the restricted breeds but i couldnt find any reference to american bulls

andreac

Id be amazed if your local dog warden actually knows what breed it is. So many confuse Boxers for Pitbulls and so on. So you can just laugh at them if they ask you to muzzle him as god knows what breed they will think he is.

Hes fab by the way!!

DBB

andreac wrote: »

Id be amazed if your local dog warden actually knows what breed it is. So many confuse Boxers for Pitbulls and so on. So you can just laugh at them if they ask you to muzzle him as god knows what breed they will think he is.

Hes fab by the way!!

I'm trying to suppress a snort here Andreac, because I think that's fair comment re the warden knowing the breed... I am in the same county as callmekenneth, and whilst I have a lot of time for our wardens and the way they operate, they have had some difficulty recognising one of my dogs for what she really is. She's hardly a rare breed, being a GSD, but she's jet black and long-coated, which throws a lot of people, wardens included!
Congratulations on the new addition cmk, I had a sneaking suspicion you hadn't just asked the question for the fun of it! He's a fine chap indeed!

LucyBliss

What a gorgeous dog! Assuming nothing has changed since you posted you were going to keep him, may I wish you both many happy years together, callmekenneth.

callmekenneth

cheers folks. yeah i can't not keep him now

Bullseye1

Beautiful dog. That's how the British Bulldog should also look.

andreac

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Beautiful dog. That's how the British Bulldog should also look.

English Bulldog