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Richard III?
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12-09-2012 6:10pm#1
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IF they are the remains of King Richard III, then his belated funeral will be an occasion not to be missed.
Think of it - the VERY LAST monarch to reign in England who was actually English.
All those since him have been Welsh, Scottish, Dutch and German of one kind or another.
I'll admit that I'm biased - I am a member of the Richard the Third Society.
Hopefully, they will bury him alongside his queen, Anne Woodville, in Westminster Abbey, but if not, then York Minster or Gloucester cathedral will do nicely.
tac
Given that he was a member of the House of Plantagenet (The Angevins) he was surely last French King of England
the last english king been Harold Godwinson who met his end at Battle of Hastings. 0 -
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You might argue Harold was at least partly Dutch(and Scots IIRC)...Given that he was a member of the House of Plantagenet (The Angevins) he was surely last French King of England the last english king been Harold Godwinson who met his end at Battle of Hastings.
On that score, though as Tac points out those following Richard were indeed more Welsh and Scots, they were also more "local" being British.
Like Tac I've always had a soft spot for Richard 3. Talk about a political hatchet job, though I suppose if you are to be on the receiving end of a hatchet job, you've not done too badly if Willie Shakespeare is writing the copy.
It'll be an amazing find if the DNA is still viable and can be matched.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Given that he was a member of the House of Plantagenet (The Angevins) he was surely last French King of England the last english king been Harold Godwinson who met his end at Battle of Hastings.
Thank you, Sir, for putting me right, again.
Richard was born in England of English parents, and spoke English [as well as French, as many of us do :P].
He would have called himself English, just as Harald Godwinsson would have called himself English, taking the term from Aelfred, who was the first king in all of Angleland to call himself and his people English.
As for the 'French connection', I'm certain that you, as a historian, would recognise that even as late as Henry VIII's coronation, he swore allegiance to the then King of France as his 'liegeman', although he was later to conveniently overlook that in the invasion of France that he undertook.
If we really NEED to be picky, and history is full of picky, then we must go back to the time of the invasion by the Romans in 44AD to find the last TRULY British king, although, with such a plethora of tribes in Celtic Britain, the term would probably not have meant the same thing. There was, AFAWK, no unified leader as there is said to have been in Ireland almost a thousand years later. 'Arthur' may have exsited as an amalgam of British leaders fending off the invasions from the east - for a while.
Prasutagus, maybe? Or his 'queen', Boudicca? Catuvelaunus? Who knows? As in nearby Ireland, each tribe seems to have had its own 'king' - some even minted coins with their king's head on them.
Whatever, the next tranche of so-called royalty after Richard was not English. I grudingly admit that being mostly Welsh, H. Twdor could claim an element of Britishness, but the French-loving haggis-chasers that followed the Twdors have little real Britishness in them, being descended from the Irish invaders.
tac0 -
You might argue Harold was at least partly Dutch(and Scots IIRC)... On that score, though as Tac points out those following Richard were indeed more Welsh and Scots, they were also more "local" being British.
Like Tac I've always had a soft spot for Richard 3. Talk about a political hatchet job, though I suppose if you are to be on the receiving end of a hatchet job, you've not done too badly if Willie Shakespeare is writing the copy.
It'll be an amazing find if the DNA is still viable and can be matched.
Of course, it will change history.
The lawful and annointed king of England, slaughtered on the battlefield of Bosworth not far from where we live, and by treachery, and then supplanted by a bunch of furriners ever since.
ANY blood relative of Richard's will have a far greater claim to the throne of England than the bunch of furriners presently residing.
I have no axe to grind here, you understand, being only very slightly more 'British' than somebody who is totally Japanese, but I care to see that justice is done.
tac0 -
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Well technically the Stewarts been descended from Bretons could be classed as "British" given that the Bretons are Brythonic Celts who fled into Brittany from South-West Britain 1500 years ago
They only arrived into Scotland in the 12th century with Walter fitz Alan son of Alan fitz Flaad who was a Breton knight. 0 -
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Documentary soon on More4 139 on Richard III : The Unseen Story, at 9pm.
Not sure I'm going to watch it myself, there are one or two tempting ones on the doc channels : Viking Apocalypse on Nat Geo +1 starting at 9pm, or Vesuvius : Countdown to Eruption on NatGeoWild HD. (before Viking Ap. that is, right now, there China's lost pyramids that looks good too !)
Just thought I'd share, I often miss the good stuff myself from not bothering to check...
Timeteam are looking at some mosaics found under some farmer's pigsty, but I feel like something more dramatic tonight :P0 -
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So where are his feet?
With Joe's clumsy unfortunate damage to his skull with her mattock, I just wonder might there also have been a slight mishap with the
JCB and Richard's missing metatarsals? I did notice a bit of JCB/mattock damage on one of his shin bones, hence the awful possibility
Pesronally the whole story and the history surrounding his death has had me captivated, and the date 1485 is now stuck in my head along with other important historical dates. During the excavation and subsequent discussions surrounding his bones I just couldn't help thinking about the brutality of the battle itself, and the injuries inflicted on Richard, it must have been very grusome, and then after his death - the theory of how he was stabbed in the behind (as he was slung over the horse)! and what an horrendus picture that portrays.
What a find in the very 1st trench!0 -
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The battle over where Richard III's remains will end up has been won - by the city where his body was found under a car park.
Leicester has ended up being the final destination for the king's remains after York, the other contender, gave up the fight.
York Minster announced that it believed the King's remains should be commended "to Leicester's care".
Support for York as a final resting place had been growing with 11,000 people signing a petition calling for his remains to be brought to the city.
As a member of the House of York, Richard III would have regarded York as the centre of his support.
But people in Leicester had been equally keen for his remains stay in the city. He was buried there for more than 500 years since being taken to the city following his death at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485.
tac
York does have a good claim to Richard's remains.
For all intents and purposes he was a Northerner. He grew up at Middleham Castle in the Yorkshire Dales and visited York many times during his reign, from 1483 to 1485.
Before his coronation he was known as Richard of York and he also funded part of the city’s medieval gated walls. Monk Bar, the city gate which he funded, today houses the Richard III Museum within it.
Monk Bar
The monarch’s links with the area are celebrated to this day, with a Richard III Hotel in Middleham, a Yorkshire-made Richard III Wensleydale cheese and a Richard III Museum in York.
Richard III Wensleydale0 -
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