Golf hole distance measurement

AldilaMan

Can anyone tell me where on the green is a hole measured. ie. when a hole is measured 430 yards is that to the front, middle or back of the green?. I've always heard people saying that the par 3's are measured to the centre. If that's the case where are the par 4's and 5's measured to?

Leprechaun77

Par 3's are generally measured to the centre of the green, and the par 4/5 's are generally measured to the front of the green. This has always been my understanding, as when you go to some courses you will often get a printout showing pin placement on each green for that specific day. This often results in club selection change if the pin is at the back.

SEORG

Usually says it on the scorecard

AldilaMan

SEORG wrote: »

Usually says it on the scorecard

I think you're referring to yardage markers for the 200,150 and 100 which can be centre or front and normally stated on the card. For overall yardage say 6000 yards this has to be a standard measurement under GUI.

SEORG

AldilaMan wrote: »

I think you're referring to yardage markers for the 200,150 and 100 which can be centre or front and normally stated on the card. For overall yardage say 6000 yards this has to be a standard measurement under GUI.

Ah ok, misunderstood your question. Don't know the answer to that one.

PARlance

AldilaMan wrote: »

For overall yardage say 6000 yards this has to be a standard measurement under GUI.

Is that your opinion or did you get that from the GUI?

Why would there have to be a standard measurement point on the green?

Courses aren't required to be the same distances so I can't really see the need.
Measurement points vary between clubs from what I can see, it's usually marked on the card.
If there was such a requirement, you'd have thought that they'd have making all clubs switch to one common measurement (yards or meters) as well.

blue note

ajcurry123 wrote: »

If there was such a requirement, you'd have thought that they'd have making all clubs switch to one common measurement (yards or meters) as well.

It's incredible that they don't force clubs to use one measurement system. My home course is metres to the middle of the green both from the tee and the fairway markers. Lots of other courses are yards to the front from fairway markers and yards to the middle from tees. It's very annoying having to add & subtract before I hit each shot. Even more annoying when I add instead of subtracting or vice versa!

AldilaMan

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Is that your opinion or did you get that from the GUI?

Why would there have to be a standard measurement point on the green?

Courses aren't required to be the same distances so I can't really see the need.
Measurement points vary between clubs from what I can see, it's usually marked on the card.
If there was such a requirement, you'd have thought that they'd have making all clubs switch to one common measurement (yards or meters) as well.

I would have thought it's obvious that the total measurement of a course would have to follow some standard. The GUI measure a course before that course becomes affiliated. I'm sure they don't measure one course from the back of the white tee box to the front of the green and then another course to the centre of the green.

I'm just trying to find out what defines the full yardage of a hole - not the intermediate markings which vary and are quite often innacurate.

Su Campu

All yardages on the card are from the slab on the tee boxto the centre of the green, it's only the fairway markers that can vary, as described on the card.

MP62

AldilaMan wrote: »

Can anyone tell me where on the green is a hole measured. ie. when a hole is measureAlld 430 yards is that to the front, middle or back of the green?. I've always heard people saying that the par 3's are measured to the centre. If that's the case where are the par 4's and 5's measured to?

All golf holes are measured to the middle of the green and that has always been the case afaik, where the confusion arises is with on course measurements that can differ from course to course, some are measures to the front and some to the middle, but it's almost always stated on the card.

PARlance

AldilaMan wrote: »

I would have thought it's obvious that the total measurement of a course would have to follow some standard. The GUI measure a course before that course becomes affiliated. I'm sure they don't measure one course from the back of the white tee box to the front of the green and then another course to the centre of the green.

I'm just trying to find out what defines the full yardage of a hole - not the intermediate markings which vary and are quite often innacurate.

My point and original question was seeking clarification if the GUI act as an authority on measurement.
I don't imagine that they do.
I.e they inspect one course and ask measurement, they're told 6000 yards from white tees to front of greens. They go to another and are told its 5,700 meters from whites to middle. They measure both and both are fairly accurate. I couldn't see either case being a problem for them when considering affiliation.

I presume that they leave it to the club to get measurements correct in the interest of their members/players.

Courses change tee boxes, add greens etc. I don't think the GUI inspects all changes/reviews affiliation after these changes.

I'm open to correction on this but I think the GUI leave it in the hands of the clubs re measurements.

Golfgraffix

There are in fact CONGU regulations, the last one was 2009 i think.

Measurements must be no less than 4 yards from the back of the tee box and measured in a line of play to the centre of the green, in the case of a dogleg along the centre line to the axis and the to the centre of the green.

Must be measured with a device with an accuracy of +/- 1 yard over 250 yards.

May Irish courses are measured from 2 yards off the back tee, this was an old requirement under CONGU.

We recently measured a course (no names) who had measured from the very back of each tee to past centre of each green. When we gave them the figures, the course was nearly 200 yards shorter and they decided not to use the new measurement.

Its quite important to get right as it has a huge bearing on the index value and in turn the SSS, I think that SSS increases by 1 stroke for every additional 220 yards

J

GreeBo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

There are in fact CONGU regulations, the last one was 2009 i think.

Measurements must be no less than 4 yards from the back of the tee box and measured in a line of play to the centre of the green, in the case of a dogleg along the centre line to the axis and the to the centre of the green.

Must be measured with a device with an accuracy of +/- 1 yard over 250 yards.

May Irish courses are measured from 2 yards off the back tee, this was an old requirement under CONGU.

We recently measured a course (no names) who had measured from the very back of each tee to past centre of each green. When we gave them the figures, the course was nearly 200 yards shorter and they decided not to use the new measurement.

Its quite important to get right as it has a huge bearing on the index value and in turn the SSS, I think that SSS increases by 1 stroke for every additional 220 yards

J

Isnt it the relative difficulty of each hole (along with ensuring an even spread of shots) that determines the indices?
The length of the hole on the card compared to reality has little bearing on this?

Same goes for SSS and CSS, its difficulty not accuracy of measuring.

Golfgraffix

I cant find the exact CONGU wording (it may be in the office) but this is taken from the EGU guidelines which is based on the CONGU system.

"Course yardage forms the basis of all SSS and is the main area where Clubs may
look at increasing the difficulty and subsequent SSS of the course. The EGU
Rating System uses a yardage formula to form the basis of an SSS and from
which the difficulty of the course is then applied"

Rule of thumb is:

50 yards Increase of 0.24 of a stroke
100 yards Increase of 0.45 of a stroke
150 yards Increase of 0.68 of a stroke
200 yards Increase of 0.91 of a stroke

Of course you are right that other factors also play a part, for example fairway width. It is normally measured at 260 yards (scratch golfer distance), a fairway that is less than 20 yards wide at 260 from the tee will add .3 to the SSS, wider than 40 will reduce SSS by .3

My favourite factor is GMR (green missed recoverability), it is good design tool to toughen a course that maybe lacking in teeth elsewhere, especially length.

whizbang

All golf holes are measured to the middle of the green and that has always been the case afaik, where the confusion arises is with on course measurements that can differ from course to course, some are measures to the front and some to the middle, but it's almost always stated on the card.

I Never, Ever, saw a card stating front/back/middle. even when i ask, out of the 3 possibles, i get 4 different answers.

MP62

whizbang wrote: »

All golf holes are measured to the middle of the green and that has always been the case afaik, where the confusion arises is with on course measurements that can differ from course to course, some are measures to the front and some to the middle, but it's almost always stated on the card.

I Never, Ever, saw a card stating front/back/middle. even when i ask, out of the 3 possibles, i get 4 different answers.

I've also never ever seen a card stating front/back/middle.

onlyfinewine

Almost all cards I have seen in the last year or two have the distance measurements stated on the card, usually with a note as to whether the measurement is in yards or meters and whether to the front or the middle of the green.

Examples of cards with measurements to the centre are Ballybunion, Thurles, Castletroy and one which the Society has played recently Ballykisteen.

Sometimes par 3's are measured to the centre and other holes are to the front like in Dromoland Castle and Castlemartyr.

If my memory is correct I remember that Mount Juliet was measured to the front and the O'Meara Course in Carton House was also to the front.

I have never seen a course measured only to the back of the green.

slave1

Not to mention "yardages" in meters

The_Architect

Listen to Golfgraffix:

Measurements are "supposed" to be from near the back of the tee to the centre of the green along the centreline of the hole. However, I've seen owners and architects effectively lie to try and squeeze extra distance because people are obsessed with length.

Also, centreline of hole is debatable. I use standard turning points at 250m (and then a further 200m for par-5's) from the back tee. This can reduce the length of a hole when "real" doglegs are between those distances.

Measurements from fairway can clearly vary to front or middle depending on course.

So summary - Measurements from the tee are to the centre of the green, measurements from fairway can vary.

PARlance

Quick question, slightly related.

Is there a minimum or maximum length that a course can be?

Golfgraffix

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Quick question, slightly related.

Is there a minimum or maximum length that a course can be?

A course can be any length but for rating i must fall into these paramaters

From TO SSS
4061 4280 60
4281 4500 61
4501 4720 62
4721 4940 63
4941 5160 64
5161 5380 65
5381 5600 66
5601 5820 67
5821 6040 68
6041 6260 69
6261 6480 70
6481 6700 71
6701 6920 72
6921 7140 73
7141 7360 74
7361 7580 75

Courses between 3000-4060 yards are not rated under the rating system. In short courses that have many par 3's it is very hard to rate as scratch golfers find it difficult to birdie par3's.

PARlance

Golfgraffix wrote: »

as scratch golfers find it difficult to birdie par3's.

And we don't?
I get you, cheers.