Rest time between runs

JohnnyBingo

I am training for DCM and following Hal Higdon Intermediate Level 2 - this will be my 2nd marathon
The plan has 10m run on Saturday followed by 20m on Sunday. It was 6pm Saturday evening when I finished my 10 then had some work to do in garden til 9pm.
Struggled yesterday during 20m from 15m on and had to take a few walking breaks. I had nothing left in my legs and then the motivation started to drain away. Eventually had to stop at 18m and walk the last 2m.
I'm guessing my biggest problem was not leaving enough recovery time between Saturday and Sunday runs ( started 20m run at 9am Sunday morning so approx 15hrs gap)

What experience have others had out there and what would be the minimum recovery duration you would leave between a 10m and 20m run ?

rom

From your other thread "Aiming for 4-4.30 hrs if that makes any difference." People normally choose plans and look at the first few weeks and go sure I am doing that already or maybe more I can do more and look for a harder plan. I did that last year and then what happens is that towards the end of the plan the big weeks are too hard. A lot of people who would be going for say 3:30 wouldn't be doing a 10m run at race pace followed by a 20m LSR the following day. Don't be a slave to your plan. I made the same mistake as your last year too. It meant that I ended up worn out from training on race day.

Insane1

It's all about stressing your body as much as you can without injuring yourself. To me, it sounds like you are doing that perfectly... If its easy all the time you will never give your body a reason to improve.

Krusty_Clown

I disagree with what rom has to say. Plans are generally put together as a sum of parts, rather than a menu of individual items to pick and choose from, based on how one is feeling. If you cannot handle elements of a plan, you are better off looking at a more suitable plan, rather than skipping specific workouts. Plans are generally progressive, building on from one week to the next, so if you skip earlier sections, later workouts will be increasingly more difficult.

Your body will eventually make the physiological adaptations necessary to handle the training load. Stick with it, and yes, try to make sure you get sufficient rest between the PMP mileage and the long run (do the gardening on Sunday). In your case, you managed to complete the 10 mile PMP and the 20 mile long run (even if it wasn't that pretty). So you managed to complete one of the hardest sections of the plan. It's not supposed to be easy, so hat's off to you. I'd wager the next time you tackle that combination of workouts, you'll find it significantly easier.

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I disagree with what rom has to say.

Fair enough. It just seems a lot to be doing 30 miles with 10 miles at pace in 2 days when first marathon was done in June when goal just to finish. Seems like a big jump to me but I am only new to it all myself so am still learning too. Just have a read off this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70639421

Krusty_Clown

rom wrote: »

Fair enough. It just seems a lot to be doing 30 miles with 10 miles at pace in 2 days when first marathon was done in June when goal just to finish. Seems like a big jump to me but I am only new to it all myself so am still learning too. Just have a read off this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70639421

If you think you are over-reaching, then move to an easier plan. Don't skip specific workouts of a plan you are following. Skipping workouts is habit forming. It is also demoralizing. As mentioned above, a plan is like a set of building blocks with each week progressing from the previous week. If you struggle with an earlier workout, what are the chances of you completing a tougher workout at a later stage in the program?

By the way, I followed this exact plan for my first marathon. I didn't come from a background of running. It was tough, but by following the plan I finished in a time I wouldn't have thought possible beforehand.

roro2

JohnnyBingo wrote: »

What experience have others had out there and what would be the minimum recovery duration you would leave between a 10m and 20m run ?

Personally, I would aim to leave close to 24 hours between these runs - although I know this isn't always possible. The times that I combined a late evening run (of medium intensity) followed by an early LSR I was always surprised by how much tougher I found the LSR compared with when I ran early on the previous day. Still, I wouldn't try and skip/reduce either of the sessions - there might just be more suffering involved, and you did manage to get through it so will get the benefit from it. As Krusty said - it's not supposed to be easy!

RacoonQueen

For me thats the perfect way to do two workouts like that. You did 20 miles on tired legs and that stimulates marathon conditions, yeah you walked two miles but for a novice that's not really a big deal. Just my opinion of course.

JohnnyBingo

Thanks for all the feedback guys.