Your thoughts/experience on equipment & software for live electronic music?

Denalihighway

I make my own music in Cubase 6 on a PC. I’m reasonably efficient now and the next step will be to get back gigging at some stage.

The dream would be to be able to get session musos together for gigs but that shall remain a dream for now. My first port of call would be a live drummer if things came together well but for now it will be me and my laptop (it’s a PC laptop at the moment) plus guitars, bass guitar, MIDI controller and Microkorg – doing as much as I can possibly do live myself, depending on the song - with the rest as backing.

It’ll be a mix of styles - dance/ indie rock, ambient/house, heavier electro to straight up dance/pop.

I’ve gigged quite a bit as a singer/guitarist in a rock band but have zero experience with a live setup for what I’ve described above.

With a view to putting the setup together, I would really appreciate your thoughts / opinions / experiences if you have done something similar to this under the following headings:

Computer:
I have a PC laptop, I plan on upgrading it and leaving the new one just for music. What kind of specs are invaluable? I know people rave about Apple but is it really worth it? Seems like people do just as well on PC laptops?

Software
Obviously Ableton Live seems to be where it’s at. I’m not familiar with it at all. Is this for the interface/ease of use etc? Or is it particularly easy on processing power for gigs? Or both? I use Cubase 6 which is brilliant for recording but could you do similar things with it in a live setting? Are there anyone who has used both live and has thoughts on this?

Hardware
What’s been your indispensable hardware in your setup? I see all kinds of stuff on stage as regards samplers, controllers, mixers etc. I haven’t a breeze what a lot of it is but I intend on finding out…

Any other tips you’d care to mention would be very much appreciated not just by me but I’m sure others who might read the thread.

Nice one!

Denalihighway

cmon ye b*stards - don't leave me hangin, throw a brother a bone!

raindog.promo

I'm doing something similar. Organizing a rehearsal place at the moment.

One piece of equipment I love is my FCB1010 - Cheap enough and versatile.

Good luck with your project.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

Denalihighway

cheers dude.

see - its not that hard folks!

I'm determined to get one more response* to this thread

*may I qualify this by saying a response with some information in it

raindog.promo

Have you any demos up online?

Regarding Ableton, I've experienced impressively little to no latency. Ease of use with midi controllers but it has a habit of crashing (Version 8.2.5). I've just installed version 8.3 but am yet to try it.

I use a PC and am happy enough with it. The PC itself isn't the best, having been gifted to me by someone who had got a better one. But as I'd be gigging with it, it therefore wouldn't be as great a loss if damaged or stolen.

I've heard with Apple you get more stability (less crashes) but you pay through the nose for it. If the program does crash it will ask do you want to restore the last program you were working on so you don't lose any changes, just be sure to save when you restore and ALWAYS MAKE BACK UP COPIES!

Don't learn that the hard way

Malice

My experience in this area is very limited. While I've been composing on the PC since the days of good old Scream Tracker, I've never done anything more complicated in a gig situation than guitar + effects + amp.

In terms of hardware, I have an M-Audio Axiom. One handy feature is that it powers itself via USB so that's one less power adapter to worry about.

In terms of software I've used many different programs over the years but FL Studio is the only DAW I've managed to get to grips with.

Denalihighway

thanks for that.

I'll PM you about the other stuff.

Splinters

Ableton is absolutely the way to go. Its very easy to learn and very intuative. The potential uses are practically limitless too. Its hands down the most versatile of the DAWs out there and you'll find a rake of online tutorials for anything you need to know.

Sky King

hey OP I'm a drummer who uses ableton live with live drums to play kinda liquidy drum n bass live.

Vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg-qYMQBUw

Got a specific question? Shoot!

rcaz

Heya, electronic musician here.

My live setup is: MacBook Pro running Ableton Live, a PreSonus Firestudio Project audio interface, a Novation Launchpad, Korg Nanokontrol, Behringer FCB1010 and Alesis Q49 keyboard.

Mac OSX v. Windows... Not a debate that will ever reach a conclusion, and usually not a debate that you want to start... I like OSX. What I will say, I've never had any trouble with drivers. I know a few friends who use Windows to make music and they've had lots of trouble installing different hardware drivers, never had any of that trouble with my computer. I've also heard a few people saying that, right down at some deeper OS level, OSX processes audio more efficiently than Windows, but I don't know enough about that to get involved.

I think the main argument for Macs is that, because Apple control all of the hardware and all of the software going into your computer, there aren't any compatibility issues because the software has been written exactly for the hardware.

Ableton's a great program for playing live, not so great for recording stuff. If you know Cubase, you'll want to stick with that for production stuff, but Ableton is really flexible for live performance. Spend a month or two playing around, getting to know all the specifics of it, and then you'll be able to set up your sets in such a way that everything is really jammable. Which, as a guitar player originally, was a ****ing revelation when I figured it out. Everyone has their own way of setting up computers for their own performance needs, when I found mine it was a real EUREKA!! moment. And now I'm all, "**** guitars!"

One thing to be aware of, if you start using Ableton a lot, it's very easy for your stuff to start 'sounding like Ableton'. Easy to get around though, start using different VSTs other than the built-in ones (there are some really great ones built in though), use Ableton as a ReWire slave into Cubase, use the instruments and effects you like in Ableton and the mixer and everything else from Cubase. I was reading a Ricardo Villalobos interview a while ago where he slated the audio engine Ableton uses. I'm not sure I'd be able to pick up on the nuances, but if Villalobos says so, I'm inclined to believe him.

If you already use your computer for music, I'll assume you have a good audio interface. If not, definitely get a good audio interface, the best you can afford. If you cheap out on that, you'll only re-buy later. I got my PreSonus because apparently (again not sure I could hear the minute details some people claim to) it's got pretty good pre-amps for the money, and it's got 8 ins and 10 outs. So I can use it as a pretty flexible recording interfaces with all the ins, and in a live situation, I can process my guitar, my band's singer's vocals, take a kick drum mic in (or some other source) to control things like a sidechained compressor, and then send stereo outs to the venue's PA, headphone out for a drummer, send something to my bandmate for him to process on his laptop... Reamp a drum machine through 10 amps, each with different effect chains, because it's ****ing loads of craic, you get the idea

And if you play guitar live, definitely look into a Behringer FCB1010. I use mine all the time, means I can play guitar and trigger and slice up things percussion loops live at the same time. I think it's really important to stay away from using my laptop like a backing track machine. Even if the song is as simple as laptop drums and live guitars, it seems like cheating to just press Play and play guitar along to the drums... And then even if it's just something as simple as pressing one button to start the kicks, and then 4 bars later, pressing another button to start the hats, well it's slightly more 'live' than pressing Play right? But then, the more time you spend playing with all your toys, the more interesting things you figure out and the more fun and 'live' your show will become.

raindog.promo

Nice post RCAZ (I preferred RPRON)

I've a similar setup, playing guitar and controlling loops and whatnot via FCB1010. I'm also playing bass with my feet on an organ type of floor keyboard.

My soundcard is similar, might be the same, Firepod? 8 in and 10 out. Definitely incredibly versatile.

Any pics of your setup?

Here's one of the most recent of mine:

rcaz

I think mine is effectively the same interface as the Firepod, just from a more recent series of stuff from PreSonus.

I've no photos at the moment but I'm rehearsing with the lads tomorrow so I'll take one then and post it on Saturday.

What kinda foot-keyboard is that? I've always wanted a Moog Taurus :pac:

And it was El Pr0n, not RPRON, get it right

raindog.promo

Moog Taurus is bloody expensive from what I remember.
Then again, my memory aint the best, is it?

The foot thing is a Roland PK5A. Nice bit of kit. A bit pricey itself too though.

rcaz

Would you believe I wrote that earlier post while eating a deadly pizza and drinking some real delicious beer? I wouldn't.

Johnatorium

Denalihighway wrote: »

I make my own music in Cubase 6 on a PC. I’m reasonably efficient now and the next step will be to get back gigging at some stage.

The dream would be to be able to get session musos together for gigs but that shall remain a dream for now. My first port of call would be a live drummer if things came together well but for now it will be me and my laptop (it’s a PC laptop at the moment) plus guitars, bass guitar, MIDI controller and Microkorg – doing as much as I can possibly do live myself, depending on the song - with the rest as backing.

It’ll be a mix of styles - dance/ indie rock, ambient/house, heavier electro to straight up dance/pop.

I’ve gigged quite a bit as a singer/guitarist in a rock band but have zero experience with a live setup for what I’ve described above.

With a view to putting the setup together, I would really appreciate your thoughts / opinions / experiences if you have done something similar to this under the following headings:

Computer:
I have a PC laptop, I plan on upgrading it and leaving the new one just for music. What kind of specs are invaluable? I know people rave about Apple but is it really worth it? Seems like people do just as well on PC laptops?

Software
Obviously Ableton Live seems to be where it’s at. I’m not familiar with it at all. Is this for the interface/ease of use etc? Or is it particularly easy on processing power for gigs? Or both? I use Cubase 6 which is brilliant for recording but could you do similar things with it in a live setting? Are there anyone who has used both live and has thoughts on this?

Hardware
What’s been your indispensable hardware in your setup? I see all kinds of stuff on stage as regards samplers, controllers, mixers etc. I haven’t a breeze what a lot of it is but I intend on finding out…

Any other tips you’d care to mention would be very much appreciated not just by me but I’m sure others who might read the thread.

Nice one!

I'm in a similar situation.....use Cubase for recording, and guitar, bass, Reason (drums) and Microkorg XL for making my music. Have zero experience using midi controllers. Hooked my Microkorg up as a midi controller for the first time the other day, to see if i could use it for VST instruments. Lookin to move towards a live setup, again if i can find a live drummer!

raindog.promo

I've always found Cubase to be a bit unuser friendly with a steep learning curve.
I love Reason. Not as steep a learning curve and a nice MIDI learn function for introducing you to midi controllers. If they made it aimed at the "live" market I'd still be using it. Ableton just have that little bit of an edge on them (IMO) especially with being able to use plugins.

Denalihighway

Sky King wrote: »

hey OP I'm a drummer who uses ableton live with live drums to play kinda liquidy drum n bass live.

Vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg-qYMQBUw

Got a specific question? Shoot!

love it

fair play

Sky King

Hey, thanks a lot my friend

Denalihighway

raindog.promo wrote: »

I've always found Cubase to be a bit unuser friendly with a steep learning curve.
I love Reason. Not as steep a learning curve and a nice MIDI learn function for introducing you to midi controllers. If they made it aimed at the "live" market I'd still be using it. Ableton just have that little bit of an edge on them (IMO) especially with being able to use plugins.

interesting. the DAW thing is a big one for me. the reason i use cubase for recording is basically because the lite version of it came with the first interface i ever bought.

so when I upgraded my interface (I use a MOTU Audio Express - which is a good interface but it may fall down due lack of inputs) I upgraded to cubase 6 as that seemed to make since i'd been making reasonable progress with the lite version. now I'm no computer genius, far from it, but I absolutely love it now and i've made great progress in the last few months. there's amazing stuff in it, huge array of proprietary VSTs and beat programming etc etc. i'm only at the tip of the iceberg as regards its capabilities.

so i suppose one of the main/first things i'm trying to find out is if its really worth learning another DAW like Ableton if i can do what i need to do through cubase it would seem an awful waste to abandon it for live stuff.

it always seems that with stuff like software, (unless the software if just plain crap) - for recording and playing live as long as the user knows whatever stuff they're using well, it'll work out well and people forge their own way then.

there's been some great stuff in this thread...and thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. but i wish someone was able to tell me if i should approach playing live with Cubase, if it has that potential, or if i should just forget about it and look at Ableton Live

rcaz

Learning new things is never an 'awful waste'. If you go learn another DAW, you'll learn that DAW's way of the same things, so you'll have two understandings of each task you cover, and you'll be much more flexible in the future for it.

Definitely definitely definitely give Ableton Live a go, but don't approach it the same way you approach Cubase. I use REAPER when I want to produce proper tracks, Ableton Live is just a big instrument for me. I almost never look at the arrangement view when I'm playing with my band, just have it in session view and set up my controllers and jam away.

You'll see what I mean when you try it out

Denalihighway

I hear ya. I tend to agree.

It wasn't in my budget though... Ouch!

rcaz

Denalihighway wrote: »

It wasn't in my budget though... Ouch!

Yeah, I know what you mean... It's all in the game, yo.

While we're talking about all this, can anyone recommend any monitors for a lovable scamp with fairly deep bass in his mind and a dream in his heart?

Sky King

I use yamaha HS-50's. Happy with em.

Denalihighway

I use Focal CMS 50s

i love em. but i wouldn't have a clue about recommending monitors. i bought them based on recommendation and they're the only ones i've ever had.

they are quite renowned for the bass response though. they're also unfortunately bloody expensive too. i bought them as something i plan on not replacing for a long time!

the CMS 40s are a step down in size but are just as well regarded. really i think you should be looking for a set up with a sub if its really bassy stuff? the Focal sub is on my shopping list too.

gsparx

What would you like to do with Cubase in a live situation? Are you using the VI's? Or would you use it just for backing tracks?
I don't see any reason you couldn't use it.
Ableton is geared towards live use, hence the name.
There's things you can do with it (mostly beneficial in a live situation) that you couldn't do in most other DAW's.
Things like instantaneous triggering of loops of any length in any order in real time.
But if your focus is playing other instruments on stage that mightn't actually be necessary for you.

Denalihighway

sorry hadn't this reply

I guess what I'm trying to do is much like what's been discussed above.

The songs I make would be quite layered - so some of the songs would be a lot of backing tracks, but then I also want to be able to play as much of it live as possible - be it guitar, bass or MIDI controller for keys and bleeps/blips.

what exactly did you mean when you say VI's - is it virtual instruments? If that's what you mean then yes I'd plan on doing a fair bit of that hopefully be it keys or guitar plugins etc

raindog.promo

Nice website here that I've found. They make guitar effect pedals but with the ability to control them through midi, something I think will become standard soon enough:

http://glab.com.pl

Speaking of (studio) monitors, I bought Adams A7 monitors and they are brilliant. I love them. €400 per monitor though. I stupidly thought they were sold in pairs (for €400) so imagine my surprise when I opened the big delivery box from musicstore.de to find a smaller box inside and a smaller box inside that, thinking to myself "this couldn't hold the 2 of them, could it?"

The monitors are fantastic though, the clarity is amazing and listening to albums through them is superb. You hear things you never heard before even after years of previous listening. OK Computer through them is mind blowing.

Pricey but well worth it.

gsparx

It sounds to me like you'd be fine working with Cubase live.
Ableton would give you more flexibility at a gig but its extra strength is really in the live remix, loop triggering realm.
As long as you have the instruments you want in Cubase and it's stable on your laptop, then have a go at getting a set together and if you come up against limitations, look into some other options.