Is GAA getting more and more lke soccer ?

RATM

I'm beginning to notice a few things creeping into Gaelic Football over the last few years that remind me more and more of watching the Premier League.

It seems to be going on for a couple of years now but I'll just draw on the Mayo-Dublin game to give a few examples.

Time wasting- between the 60th and 70th minute around three Mayo players went down with cramp

Diving I forget which player did it but I saw it happen. Also happened a little in the Cork-Donegal semi too

Play acting -Players making the most of injuries, pretending they got hit in the face and rolling around on the ground like a baby in an attempt to get opposing players booked or sent off.

Tactics Although a new development Jim Fitzpatricks tactics owe more to the AC Milan and Arsenal teams of the 1990's than they do to any tactics that have been used in GAA before them. The way they play when they don't have the ball, constantly hassling and hurrying the opposing player into a mistake is lifted directly from Barcelona's modus operandi and their 6 second rule to get the ball back

Hooliganism- albeit not organised the way it was in 1980's England it is happening more and more frequently. Louth fans attacking the referee. Donegal fans attacking Pat Spillane. And that is only a national level- referees being attacked happens more often at junior and county levels.

Not to get political about it but one of the major social consequences of globalisation and multiculturalism is that cultures and societies before more more and more homogenous over time. We can already see the influence of Hollywood and American dramas has resulted in some Irish people changing their accents over the last 15 years.

But you would think that the GAA, with a rich history and culture spanning over 125 years would be immune to being infiltrated by outside influences. But I'm beginning to doubt that recently myself.

Syferus

RATM wrote: »

I'm beginning to notice a few things creeping into Gaelic Football over the last few years that remind me more and more of watching the Premier League.

It seems to be going on for a couple of years now but I'll just draw on the Mayo-Dublin game to give a few examples.

Time wasting- between the 60th and 70th minute around three Mayo players went down with cramp

Diving I forget which player did it but I saw it happen. Also happened a little in the Cork-Donegal semi too

Play acting -Players making the most of injuries, pretending they got hit in the face and rolling around on the ground like a baby in an attempt to get opposing players booked or sent off.

Tactics Although a new development Jim Fitzpatricks tactics owe more to the AC Milan and Arsenal teams of the 1990's than they do to any tactics that have been used in GAA before them. The way they play when they don't have the ball, constantly hassling and hurrying the opposing player into a mistake is lifted directly from Barcelona's modus operandi and their 6 second rule to get the ball back

Hooliganism- albeit not organised the way it was in 1980's England it is happening more and more frequently. Louth fans attacking the referee. Donegal fans attacking Pat Spillane. And that is only a national level- referees being attacked happens more often at junior and county levels.

Not to get political about it but one of the major social consequences of globalisation and multiculturalism is that cultures and societies before more more and more homogenous over time. We can already see the influence of Hollywood and American dramas has resulted in some Irish people changing their accents over the last 15 years.

But you would think that the GAA, with a rich history and culture spanning over 125 years would be immune to being infiltrated by outside influences. But I'm beginning to doubt that recently myself.

Of course sports bleed over into each other. Nothing you've said is new or earth-shattering and in some cases it's pretty sensationalistic.

RATM

Syferus wrote: »

Of course sports bleed over into each other. Nothing you've said is new or earth-shattering and in some cases it's pretty sensationalistic.

Where do you feel I'm being sensational ? I thought I made it clear in the post that these changes seem to be creeping in gradually and incrementally rather than happening over night.

Also I am not seeing any GAA influences in the Premier League, it seems to be all one way traffic - it appears to be the GAA which is changing and being influenced by soccer, not the other way around. That must be a cause of concern for people who love the GAA.

jordainius

RATM wrote: »

Also I am not seeing any GAA influences in the Premier League, it seems to be all one way traffic - it appears to be the GAA which is changing and being influenced by soccer, not the other way around. That must be a cause of concern for people who love the GAA.

I don't see your point? Why would the GAA have any influence on the premier league? The vast majority of Premier league fans/players/staff probably have little or no awareness of the GAA.

Gamesmanship was inevitible, there's always a touch of "win at all costs" and it happens in most sports in various ways, I wouldn't blame soccer for that becoming a part of the GAA, would have happened anyway in my opinion.

And it will never be like soccer, the physicality in GAA can be ferocious at times, soccer has basically evolved into a non contact sport. That won't happen the GAA.

Hooliganism? That's just a load of sensationalism I'm afraid. GAA doesn't have a problem there. Sure, there'll always be a few small isolated incidents, but there is no culture of hooliganism in the GAA.

DDC1990

RATM wrote: »

Where do you feel I'm being sensational ? I thought I made it clear in the post that these changes seem to be creeping in gradually and incrementally rather than happening over night.

Also I am not seeing any GAA influences in the Premier League, it seems to be all one way traffic - it appears to be the GAA which is changing and being influenced by soccer, not the other way around. That must be a cause of concern for people who love the GAA.

Au contrair, Stoke's long balls into the strikers date back to Tony Pulis' days in the Gaeltacht watching the great Kerry teams hit the ball into Bomber Liston.

It was only after talking to Rory Delap one day, about Gaa, that he thought of putting it into action in the Premier League. Himself and Rory sat down and watched the 1981 All Ireland Final, and saw a great sideline ball by Mikey Sheehy put into the edge of the square for Bomber to score. Delap assured him that he could be Stokes "Mikey Sheehy", if they could find him a "Bomber".

In my next post I will show how Jimmy McGuinness helped the New York Giants Defensive Co-Ordinator last season, which helped them win the Superbowl.

jimbo79

RATM wrote: »

I'm beginning to notice a few things creeping into Gaelic Football over the last few years that remind me more and more of watching the Premier League.

It seems to be going on for a couple of years now but I'll just draw on the Mayo-Dublin game to give a few examples.

Time wasting- between the 60th and 70th minute around three Mayo players went down with cramp

Diving I forget which player did it but I saw it happen. Also happened a little in the Cork-Donegal semi too

Play acting -Players making the most of injuries, pretending they got hit in the face and rolling around on the ground like a baby in an attempt to get opposing players booked or sent off.

Tactics Although a new development Jim Fitzpatricks tactics owe more to the AC Milan and Arsenal teams of the 1990's than they do to any tactics that have been used in GAA before them. The way they play when they don't have the ball, constantly hassling and hurrying the opposing player into a mistake is lifted directly from Barcelona's modus operandi and their 6 second rule to get the ball back

Hooliganism- albeit not organised the way it was in 1980's England it is happening more and more frequently. Louth fans attacking the referee. Donegal fans attacking Pat Spillane. And that is only a national level- referees being attacked happens more often at junior and county levels.

Not to get political about it but one of the major social consequences of globalisation and multiculturalism is that cultures and societies before more more and more homogenous over time. We can already see the influence of Hollywood and American dramas has resulted in some Irish people changing their accents over the last 15 years.

But you would think that the GAA, with a rich history and culture spanning over 125 years would be immune to being infiltrated by outside influences. But I'm beginning to doubt that recently myself.

who is jim fitzpatrick



I am not so sure the gaa is been influenced by other sports, anything i have seen in your post i have witnessed at games for my 30 year going to them, i can't talk about the times before that but from what im told all that went on to

Smartly Dressed

It's growing to be more and more similar to professional sports and because of that, players will do anything to win.

Pete_Cavan

Perhaps the main similarity between the two sports is the governing bodies reluctance to tackle the issues highlighted in the op. Compare this with rugby where they have made numerous changes over the past few years to speed up the game and encourage attacking play. They have changed the system of time keeping to help prevent time wasting and avoid disputes over the length of added time. This year rugby has changed the scrum process to speed up the game and the ref can now tell players to use the ball instead of allowing them to sit with the ball at the back of a ruck to run down the clock. Some progress has been made in the GAA in recent years but there is plenty more to do.

DazMarz

To the bloke who brought up 'hooliganism'... I have never, ever, in all my years attending GAA games seen anything that would be considered to be hooliganism (in the sense of soccer hooliganism). We've all seen the fights that can erupt at GAA matches (and the media seems to take great relish in giving front page splashes and dozens of pages to these isolated incidents), but these are mostly (if not always) on the pitch and are just results of passions running high and from frustrations of the team that is getting beaten.

Among spectators, there is never trouble. There is banter, ribbing and some mild abuse, but very rarely physical violence. The Pat Spillane incident notwithstanding, I cannot recall a single incident of violence between fans after games. 82,000-odd people spilling out onto the streets after a game in Croker, and there is rarely trouble. There is a pretty minor police presence, but even then, they are for giving directions and so on. Not to deter violence. (EDIT: There was a report I saw that a fan was stabbed in the aftermath of The Game Of Shame in 1983; but that seemed to be an isolated incident).

I love soccer. I go to games in England pretty regularly. And there is always an army of police constables in and around the stadium. And, sadly, we all know why they are there.

Hooliganism is not (and I sincerely hope will never be) a problem in Gaelic Games. There is always a cordial atmosphere, even at the most intense and crucial games. I remember sitting next to a Tyrone supporter at the 2008 quarter-final and the 1995 Final. I was having some dinner in stunned silence with a friend from Kerry following the 2009 quarter-final. Walked back towards my car with a bunch of Cork lads after 2010's semi-final. There was nothing but a discussion of the game, some banter and nothing coming near hostility.

This is why I love Gaelic Games a lot. There is none of this 'hatred' b.s. People always claim to 'hate' the Dubs, but it is never a 'hatred' that manifests itself into anything overly negative (other than banter in real life, and keyboard ninja-ism online). Whereas in soccer, hatred of another team and its supporters usually means exactly what is says on the tin.

Dangerous Man

I think the OP is right about a few things. Play has definitely become more cynical down the years and players are certainly beginning to go down quite easily for frees - which is disappointing to see. The GAA should tackle this as a matter of urgency before it becomes too entrenched to remove.

jonniebgood1

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I think the OP is right about a few things. Play has definitely become more cynical down the years and players are certainly beginning to go down quite easily for frees - which is disappointing to see. The GAA should tackle this as a matter of urgency before it becomes too entrenched to remove.

Agree with this.

On a side note some of the overly defensive replies to the OP are strange. It is clearly the case that some of these negative elements are coming into GAA. Worst of these are diving and arguing with referees IMO.

jimbo79

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I think the OP is right about a few things. Play has definitely become more cynical down the years and players are certainly beginning to go down quite easily for frees - which is disappointing to see. The GAA should tackle this as a matter of urgency before it becomes too entrenched to remove.

as long as im going to games lads have been diving, i wonder is it just the extra media exposure that has highlighted this, in the past most people only saw the all ireland semi and final, most club championships were knockout, i go to matches the wholtime have done all my life and there is not much difference now to say 20 year ago, i think refs have improved over the years though they are still not perfect but much better than before especially at inter county level, the introduction of yellow and red cards in 99 should probably been accompanied by some changes in the rules though

Dangerous Man

jimbo79 wrote: »

as long as im going to games lads have been diving, i wonder is it just the extra media exposure that has highlighted this, in the past most people only saw the all ireland semi and final, most club championships were knockout, i go to matches the wholtime have done all my life and there is not much difference now to say 20 year ago, i think refs have improved over the years though they are still not perfect but much better than before especially at inter county level, the introduction of yellow and red cards in 99 should probably been accompanied by some changes in the rules though

You could be on to something there Jimbo. From what I've seen it does seem to be getting worse though - either way - I wouldn't want it to become as prevalent as diving in soccer. I used to enjoy soccer but all the cheating and diving turned me right off. I'd hate to see our national game ruined in the same way.

megadodge

I agree with quite a few of the op's sentiments, with the obvious exception of the 'hooliganism', which is virtually non-existant. DazMarz's post conveyed my feelings exactly on that topic.

Diving and feigning injuries is widespread in football (not hurling), but it has been in the game since Pat Spillane spent an age receiving treatment for some phantom 'injury' in the 1980 AIF v Roscommon, then miraculously soloed circa 60 yards at top pace immediately afterwards. Micheal O'Hehir even referred to it in the TV commentary as a "Lazarus-like recovery".

In the 1993 AIF Anthony Davis (Sunday Game analyst) was disgracefully sent off when he didn't even foul (this was proven in the after-match analysis) Dermot Heaney of Derry, who immediately went down holding his face in 'agony'.

In that year's Connacht Final the Mayo goalie collided with a Roscommon player while coming out with the ball. He went down holding his face 'injured'. Once he saw he got his free, he was about to get up when the camera zoomed in on him and you could see two sets of hands pushing him back down again to prolong the 'injury'. The Roscommon player was ridiculously sent off.

I could go on, but there's so many nobody would ever reach the end of the post. My point is it's a long time 'creeping in' to football and just as in soccer absolutely nothing has been done about it. The majority of spectators know when a player is acting the boll*x, so how come the officials can't see it? I appreciate they have to make sure, just in case it actually is serious, but there are so many times when it's so bloody obvious - Aidan O'Mahoney's outrageous 'dive' versus Cork a few years back.

In relation to the tactics of winning the ball back, in my experience (as a career-long back), nothing used to infuriate me more than watching a forward on my team standing up watching the opposition working the ball out of defense after he lost it and doing nothing about it. Over time forwards have got better at defending and dispossesing, with Donegal and Tyrone taking it to a new level. I wouldn't regard this as a soccer tactic at all, it was always supposed to be '15 defenders when they have the ball', it's just that there were always plenty of primadonnas who thought it was beneath them to do so.

As for physicality, it's almost gone out of football. It has been alluded to in the Sunday Game a few times recently how differently football and hurling are refereed. It is a very regular sight now to see a player win a free when he gets flattened by a perfectly delivered shoulder from the opposition, with the 'offender' often getting booked. Ridiculous.

Not to get political about it but one of the major social consequences of globalisation and multiculturalism is that cultures and societies before more more and more homogenous over time. We can already see the influence of Hollywood and American dramas has resulted in some Irish people changing their accents over the last 15 years.

I would strongly agree with that statement.

jimbo79

Dangerous Man wrote: »

You could be on to something there Jimbo. From what I've seen it does seem to be getting worse though - either way - I wouldn't want it to become as prevalent as diving in soccer. I used to enjoy soccer but all the cheating and diving turned me right off. I'd hate to see our national game ruined in the same way.

likewise i wouldn't like to see that either, a few times this year we have seen a forward taken out when a goal looked certain, this is one area where soccer has it right and if we were to follow their lead i would not argue, i think in soccer that would be a red card if he was the last defender(not sure as i don't follow it)

we blindly followed soccers lead on the cards when i don't think our game is suitable for them i think if we went down the line of team fouls where after one side has committed a certain amount of fouls the next man is sin binned unless of course it is a red card offence we would be much better, also any attempt to gain a free by cheating should be deemed a foul

jack presley

As a kid I was more into soccer than GAA and my GAA mates used to always slag me off for liking a sport where the players rolled around as if they were shot when they were barely touched and how in GAA the players would never do that.

They couldn't say that now.

ceegee

Why is it that every bad thing in GAA is put down to the influence of soccer? People have been timewasting, feigning injuries and locking refs in boots of cars since long before the Premier League era. Why not focus on solving these problems rather than just blaming it on the garrison game

namloc1980

One thing I would like to see in GAA is that the minute a player goes down injured they should be taken off the pitch. So much time is wasted with fellas sitting on the ground while the physio 'attends' to them. Allow temp substitute if necessary.

There also needs to be a more effective discipline system. Currently there is very little disincentive for players fouling. They can foul their way through a game and the worst they'll get is a yellow card which is no sanction. You'll only see a red card in the case of serious foul play. But a player can commit a dozen low level fouls in a game and is unlikely to see red.