Qualifying in New York

S12b

Hi all,

I am looking to gather some information on a career in corporate law in New York. I am a final year law student in UL and have just completed an eight month internship with one of the big five Irish firms from which I have been offered a training contract. I would be reasonably confident that with some hard work my GPA and LSAT scores would be good enough to get me into a top 14 US law school.

I guess what I am looking for is first hand experience. Has anyone gone the US law school route or alternatively, completed the NY bar here before pursuing an LLM in the US?

I loved everything about the firm I was with and the work I carried out but I'm not sure does Dublin excite me enough to commit to it!!

Thanks in advance, any info at all would be greatly appreciated!!

ResearchWill

S12b wrote: »

Hi all,

I am looking to gather some information on a career in corporate law in New York. I am a final year law student in UL and have just completed an eight month internship with one of the big five Irish firms from which I have been offered a training contract. I would be reasonably confident that with some hard work my GPA and LSAT scores would be good enough to get me into a top 14 US law school.

I guess what I am looking for is first hand experience. Has anyone gone the US law school route or alternatively, completed the NY bar here before pursuing an LLM in the US?

I loved everything about the firm I was with and the work I carried out but I'm not sure does Dublin excite me enough to commit to it!!

Thanks in advance, any info at all would be greatly appreciated!!

I have not done the NY Bar but know a two people that have. The failure rate is very high. Even though both people I know passed it first time.

I assume your UL degree will allow you sit NY Bar, so why do you want to go an do a LLM in the US. From what little I know its very hard to get anywhere in US legal route with out a J.D., I suppose it all comes down to what you want and how much you are willing to risk.

krd

I'm curious.

Why would anyone want to pass the New York bar, if they have no intention of practising law in the US. And don't have any training in US law.

And I do know of people with no legal training taking a crack at it and passing. But it would seem kind of useless in itself.

ResearchWill

krd wrote: »

I'm curious.

Why would anyone want to pass the New York bar, if they have no intention of practising law in the US. And don't have any training in US law.

And I do know of people with no legal training taking a crack at it and passing. But it would seem kind of useless in itself.

Well my first mate todo it was working in New York at the time after finishing degree in Ireland, his intention was to remain in New York, but as things worked out he returned to Ireland.

The second person worked out that she could do the New York bar and then do the Quilified transfer test, and go on the roll in Ireland (now you need PQE in New York) for about the third of the price of FE1's and PPC1 and 2 plus it took half the time.

krd

ResearchWill wrote: »

The second person worked out that she could do the New York bar and then do the Quilified transfer test, and go on the roll in Ireland (now you need PQE in New York) for about the third of the price of FE1's and PPC1 and 2 plus it took half the time.

Aw haw....Now that makes sense. I know of a few Irish people who did it, I didn't know what they were up to.

It was a bit like sending your provisional drivers licence to Poland, then getting a Polish licence, taking it back to Ireland and switching it with an Irish one. Damn...that was fantastic loophole.

I'm not sure what the idea is with the New York Bar. I think it's if you can't answer these questions you have no place being a lawyer. I have looked at the questions and answers. And if you could get lucky, you might be able to bluff it.

seb65

krd wrote: »

I'm curious.

Why would anyone want to pass the New York bar, if they have no intention of practising law in the US. And don't have any training in US law.

And I do know of people with no legal training taking a crack at it and passing. But it would seem kind of useless in itself.

Do you mean no US legal training or no legal training at all - because you need a qualifying law degree to sit it in the first place.

I think some find it may give them an edge when wanting to work for multinationals.

Lawls

I know a lot of people who have done ny bar, it's difficult but definitely doable. If you have a degree in law though, I don't understand why you would be taking the LSAT. You can't pursue a JD if you have a law degree already, so you would only be doing an LLM. I have previously studied in the US as part of my course and from friendships with JD students and LLM students, it is very very difficult to get a position with a corporate law firm in NY. Basically the firms do an early interview process at the top law schools, so JDs from Harvard, Yale, Columbia tend to fill the spaces at NY firms. It is very rare for LLMs to get positions.
It is also quite expensive to attend any of the top tier law firms so you would want to be fairly confident that it will pay off. If you do get your foot in the door at one of the corporate firms in ny, expect to work insane hours. A lot of my American friends have started working and it is tough! Crazy hours, very pressurised. Some firms are starting to offer positions that are off track to becoming partner, so they tend to be more achievable for non top tier JDs but pay less so not sure they are worth it! I love NY, it's a great place to live as a student, but if you're working for a firm there you won't have much of a life! Working at a Dublin firm is definitely more balanced, think seriously about it before throwing away a tc here!!

Thanks in advance, any info at all would be greatly appreciated!![/QUOTE]

S12b wrote: »

Hi all,

I am looking to gather some information on a career in corporate law in New York. I am a final year law student in UL and have just completed an eight month internship with one of the big five Irish firms from which I have been offered a training contract. I would be reasonably confident that with some hard work my GPA and LSAT scores would be good enough to get me into a top 14 US law school.

I guess what I am looking for is first hand experience. Has anyone gone the US law school route or alternatively, completed the NY bar here before pursuing an LLM in the US?

I loved everything about the firm I was with and the work I carried out but I'm not sure does Dublin excite me enough to commit to it!!

Thanks in advance, any info at all would be greatly appreciated!!

S12b

Lawls wrote: »

I know a lot of people who have done ny bar, it's difficult but definitely doable. If you have a degree in law though, I don't understand why you would be taking the LSAT. You can't pursue a JD if you have a law degree already, so you would only be doing an LLM. I have previously studied in the US as part of my course and from friendships with JD students and LLM students, it is very very difficult to get a position with a corporate law firm in NY. Basically the firms do an early interview process at the top law schools, so JDs from Harvard, Yale, Columbia tend to fill the spaces at NY firms. It is very rare for LLMs to get positions.
It is also quite expensive to attend any of the top tier law firms so you would want to be fairly confident that it will pay off. If you do get your foot in the door at one of the corporate firms in ny, expect to work insane hours. A lot of my American friends have started working and it is tough! Crazy hours, very pressurised. Some firms are starting to offer positions that are off track to becoming partner, so they tend to be more achievable for non top tier JDs but pay less so not sure they are worth it! I love NY, it's a great place to live as a student, but if you're working for a firm there you won't have much of a life! Working at a Dublin firm is definitely more balanced, think seriously about it before throwing away a tc here!!

Thanks in advance, any info at all would be greatly appreciated!!

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that!! I'm well aware of both the expense I would be incurring and the minimum billables required of me. Having spent eight months on internship in Dublin, I really struggle to see myself setting up long term there....the city just doesn't excite me!!

Are you sure i would not be able to pursue a JD? Surely that seems unusual as it would prevent nearly all foreign law students from pursuing a JD!!

Thanks again!!

seb65

S12b wrote: »

Thanks for that!! I'm well aware of both the expense I would be incurring and the minimum billables required of me. Having spent eight months on internship in Dublin, I really struggle to see myself setting up long term there....the city just doesn't excite me!!

Are you sure i would not be able to pursue a JD? Surely that seems unusual as it would prevent nearly all foreign law students from pursuing a JD!!

Thanks again!![/QUOTE]

Do you have at more than 100 grand to spend?

S12b

seb65 wrote: »

Thanks for that!! I'm well aware of both the expense I would be incurring and the minimum billables required of me. Having spent eight months on internship in Dublin, I really struggle to see myself setting up long term there....the city just doesn't excite me!!

Are you sure i would not be able to pursue a JD? Surely that seems unusual as it would prevent nearly all foreign law students from pursuing a JD!!

Thanks again!!

Do you have at more than 100 grand to spend?[/QUOTE]

At 50,000 tuition per year not including living expenses, 100,000 would not go too far towards financing a JD unfortunately!! If however, one could get into the right school, it's a worthwhile investment!!

seb65

S12b wrote: »

Do you have at more than 100 grand to spend?

At 50,000 tuition per year not including living expenses, 100,000 would not go too far towards financing a JD unfortunately!! If however, one could get into the right school, it's a worthwhile investment!![/QUOTE]

Look at applying as a transfer student. Perhaps, Penn State or University of Chicago.

Also, sit the LSATs, most require you do them, even if you have an LLB.

Lawls

Hmm maybe I'm wrong about the JD thing, there was absolutely nobody I knew attending as a JD student that already had an LL.B. But maybe it is possible, it just seems a bit odd because you're repeating your degree! Everybody that had an LL.B was on the LL.M course!

Obviously you understand that you're going to be paying out between $250,000 and $300,000. I would warn again that it is extremely difficult, not unlike here, the US is saturated with law graduates! Some of my friends at Columbia could not get jobs with law firms in NYC.

I know you're saying Dublin doesn't excite you, but my friends who work in big law don't exactly get excited by NYC! They literally work 9 until 10 or 11 every night and most Saturdays. And they get 2 weeks holidays maximum, generally less. You are going to have a lot of debt for quite a few years after graduating unless somebody else is paying for you, it can be pretty tough.

I would advise only going if you get a good Ivy League school, it's just so tough to get firm jobs in NY if you're not coming from Ivy League schools and have no connections.

That said, I'm a huge NY fan and loved living there, so if you're willing to make a lot of sacrifices and put in a huge amount of work, go for it!!