Socially acceptable racism.

stevelknievel

I think racism and xenophobia is alive and well in modern Ireland, butit has taken a stealthier, more subtle approach. It has become an insidiousforce which is not as easily recognisable as the blunt old-fashioned beat ups orobvious racial slurs. It’s taken the form of racism in the workplace and it hasto stop. Give the poor immigrants a job and we’re obviously not racist. But thenmake the immigrants work double shifts to allow for others to take time off. Orgive them the harder, more demeaning jobs. Yes there are times you need to beflexible in any job, but why is it nearly always the immigrant workers who haveto make the sacrifices. Many immigrant workers are dealing with illegalconditions in companies. And they’re the ones lucky enough to have ‘proper’jobs. The privately hired au pairs, carers and babysitters are expected to notonly take care of the person they were hired to, but also to clean the kitchen,hoover the house, scrub the bathroom, wash the windows, take out the garbageetc. And all for €5 an hour. And if they’vefinished everything 11 hours into their 12 hour shift? Well then they can justwash the floor again. And these are real life examples, not some excess image in my head. And in many cases these are people with degrees or evendoctorates. But they are not being given the chances and opportunities theydeserve. Intelligent, hardworking people who will literally bleed for theirjob. And they’re being abused. Not physically and in a lot of cases I don’t thinkit’s even intentional. But it still happens. It’s not right. It’s not fair. It is racism. And something needs to bedone. Boycott the businesses? A name and shame campaign? Any ideas?
As JFK used to say “In order for evil to flourish, all that is required isfor good men to do nothing”. And make no mistake. Evil is flourishing allaround us.

Procrastastudy

stevelknievel wrote: »

I think racism and xenophobia is alive and well in modern Ireland, butit has taken a stealthier, more subtle approach. It has become an insidiousforce which is not as easily recognisable as the blunt old-fashioned beat ups orobvious racial slurs. It’s taken the form of racism in the workplace and it hasto stop. Give the poor immigrants a job and we’re obviously not racist. But thenmake the immigrants work double shifts to allow for others to take time off. Orgive them the harder, more demeaning jobs. Yes there are times you need to beflexible in any job, but why is it nearly always the immigrant workers who haveto make the sacrifices. Many immigrant workers are dealing with illegalconditions in companies. And they’re the ones lucky enough to have ‘proper’jobs. The privately hired au pairs, carers and babysitters are expected to notonly take care of the person they were hired to, but also to clean the kitchen,hoover the house, scrub the bathroom, wash the windows, take out the garbageetc. And all for €5 an hour. And if they’vefinished everything 11 hours into their 12 hour shift? Well then they can justwash the floor again. And these are real life examples, not some excess image in my head. And in many cases these are people with degrees or evendoctorates. But they are not being given the chances and opportunities theydeserve. Intelligent, hardworking people who will literally bleed for theirjob. And they’re being abused. Not physically and in a lot of cases I don’t thinkit’s even intentional. But it still happens. It’s not right. It’s not fair. It is racism. And something needs to bedone. Boycott the businesses? A name and shame campaign? Any ideas?
As JFK used to say “In order for evil to flourish, all that is required isfor good men to do nothing”. And make no mistake. Evil is flourishing allaround us.

If you think the average work place bases their exploitation on nationality I'd think again! They are more than happy to exploit an Irish person along with someone from Poland. I have the opening scene from Full Metal Jacket in my head - 'you are all equally as worthless'

I thought we were going to have a good old yarn about it being perfectly acceptable to be racist towards the English, Irish, French and Americans

Priori

Racist attitudes increase, I believe, in so-called tough times. (I say so-called, as many Irish people who complain of hardship have little experience of what is it to be in truly straitened circumstances). Immigrants become an all-too-easy target.

People can disagree with immigration policy all they want, but no matter what the situation, no matter what people believe about a person's right to be here, there is no excuse for the treatment/abuse you describe above.

Fuinseog

Irish people find it funny to shout heil hitler at Germans. even in a school setting it is regarded as acceptable.


everyone is racist to a certain extent, even the blacks.

Fromthetrees

There is very strong legislation in force to protect workers, the case recently awarded nearly 100k to a Pakistani man who was treated badly by his employer's but couldn't actually access the money because he was working illegally, the thing is, the restaurant where he worked was opoperated by his second cousin, who's not Irish.
Trying to pay someone poorly is not a uniquely racist Irish thing to do.
The simple fact is that non Irish, especially non EU people, simply mightn't be aware of all their rights, might be here illegally, might not be entitled to benefits ect. which purely means non Irish are at greater risk of being exploited, that's just the way it is, I don't think it's xenophobia.
In fairness, Ireland would be among the best countries in the world for workers protection rights.

Fromthetrees

The one specific example in the OP is a child minder who gets 5 euro. That is a reasonable and standard rate. Childminders are self employed, not employees, so minimum wage does not apply. It's also tax free.

9959

Fuinseog wrote: »

Irish people find it funny to shout heil hitler at Germans. even in a school setting it is regarded as acceptable.


everyone is racist to a certain extent, even the blacks.

Some Irish people, but hopefully others can find things that are actually funny to make them laugh. I find your use of the phrase 'even the blacks' at best whiffy but at worst borderline racist. Perhaps you might consider using 'black people' rather then the questionable 'the blacks'.

Priori

Fuinseog wrote:

everyone is racist to a certain extent, even the blacks.

9959 wrote:

Perhaps you might consider using 'black people' rather then the questionable 'the blacks'.

I thought Fuinseog was making a joke in using that turn of phrase, but maybe I've misunderstood!

9959

Priori wrote: »

I thought Fuinseog was making a joke in using that turn of phrase, but maybe I've misunderstood!

Maybe you're right, perhaps I didn't get the joke. Having conceded that, the assertion "everyone is racist to a certain extent" is an extremlely contentious one or perhaps that's 'irony loaded' too. If Fuinseog could come back and tell us what he/she meant, it would be helpful.

SPQRI

Fromthetrees wrote: »

The one specific example in the OP is a child minder who gets 5 euro. That is a reasonable and standard rate. Childminders are self employed, not employees, so minimum wage does not apply. It's also tax free.

I wouldn't walk your dog for €5 an hour!

€5 an hour for minding children!!!!

Equality

Racism is an issue in many workplaces.

In mine we are all white, mostly Irish or British, mostly Catholic/Christian.

It is common to hear comments such as 'immigrants should go back to their own countries when...' or 'Don't tell him that he is entitled to apply for X..'

Sometimes I find it sad, because you would get scolded by colleagues if you told a guy who was homeless and starving that he was entitled to food and accommodation and how to access these, but the same people who scold if you do this are 'good Catholics'. They see no conflict between their Christian faith and refusing the basics needed for survival to those who are destitute/peniless, so long as the destitute are 'immigrants'. At the same time, they ensure maximum access for their own families and friends.

In fairness, this is not limited to immigrants. Poor Irish people, particularly those who are poorly educated or who have limited intellectual ability, are treated in the same way.

It is more about ensuring that there are enough resources to facilitate wealthy Irish people than it is about race.

Resources can include anything from jobs to housing to health care to education.

Equality

'then make the immigrants work double shifts to allow for others to take time off. Or give them the harder, more demeaning jobs. Yes there are times you need to be flexible in any job, but why is it nearly always the immigrant workers who haveto make the sacrifices.'

Again, this is not limited to immigrants. Poor Irish are treated the same way. The harder jobs are always allocated to those who are vulnerable, whereas those who have powerful relatives are given the work that allows them access to further opportunities.

For example, 20 staff and one needs to be chosen as a trainer. The person chosen will be the one with a relative in a senior management position. This allows that person to gain greater knowledge (as they have access to the best training), to network with others (again, an asset) and to mention this when opportunities for promotion or further training occur. Access to this type of opportunity then means that they are more likely to be promomted, and they can then assist other relatives, as they are now in a promoted position.

Dr Turk Turkelton

I'm fairly racist against walls of unreadable text.

Gurgle

SPQRI wrote: »

I wouldn't walk your dog for €5 an hour!

€5 an hour for minding children!!!!

Minding children in this sense isn't a full time job.

Its usually at-home mothers who have their own kids, are doing school runs anyway, and can get on with shopping / cooking / housework / yoga / embroidery / assembling iphones / cold calling eircon customers / whatever else housewives do these days while minding these children along with their own.

€5 an hour is worth their while

Walking a dog is an hour when you're not getting anything else done.

mikemac1

stevelknievel wrote: »

Give the poor immigrants a job and we’re obviously not racist. But thenmake the immigrants work double shifts to allow for others to take time off. Orgive them the harder, more demeaning jobs. Yes there are times you need to beflexible in any job, but why is it nearly always the immigrant workers who haveto make the sacrifices. Many immigrant workers are dealing with illegalconditions in companies. And they’re the ones lucky enough to have ‘proper’jobs.

Do you think Irish workers don't come across this?

When I was a kitchen porter earning 2.50 punts an hour the head chef would make Gordon Ramsey look like a wimp.

Now I have an office job and the workload is so much you can forget about lunch break. :rolleyes: Big deal says you but I don't get paid for lunch.

Farm labourers don't get overtime and there is work to be done every day at all hours of the day in brutal weather

Reading your post you'd think immigrants are the only hard workers in Ireland

I've worked with plenty. Some are good workers, some are pissheads. No nationality is better or worse for that

kupus

Ah here mickeymac leave it out you cant be bringing common sense into a debate, what would the lefties have to whinge about then:pac: