Disputing infraction in Politics forum

Permabear

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nesf

I think Dades is on holidays and I'm on hiatus at the moment from the role, so I'm afraid you might have to wait a few days for a reply Permabear. My apologies.

It would also not really be suitable for me to get involved as this is a Politics matter.

Permabear

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Dades

nesf wrote: »

I think Dades is on holidays...

How I wish that was still the case.

Permabear, is it your contention that because of Scofflaw's editing of his post here, you were prompted in posting the post that garnered you a verbal warning?

That - assuming you missed that edit - seems fair enough to me. The original post did not answer the question that was being asked. However, I don't think that this is the issue here.

Lets now assume you've seen the edited post, as well as the warning that followed. You clearly ignored a mod warning earning you an infraction. The card was given specifically for "Ignoring Mod Instruction". The outcome was inevitable.

What ultimately you're contesting is the instruction to drop the subject - although this is now really a Helpdesk issue. Regarding the subject in question, I'll agree there was some prevaricating on behalf of the mods before that page, but to me that post of Scofflaw's cleared up the situation.

Scofflaw wrote:

In answer to the question "is the use of scumbag ever warranted" the answer is a simple no - I can't see any justification for using a specific word where that word is not a factual description of any kind but simply an epithet. Its use is occasionally permitted without infraction, but it should in general be assumed that its use will attract an infraction of some kind.

I fail to see the need to amend the charter to reflect this concession that moderators can use their common sense - doing so would only open the door to people with a gripe. The best course of action is to keep the blanket ban in place.

As an ex-moderator you should know that mods are tasked with using their heads and that there could, conceivably, be a situation where the word "scumbag" was used in a context that it would not be correct to infract it. What Scofflaw said reflects this. And Scofflaw's warning to you reflects his experience that some posters will not let an issue drop while there remains a sliver of ambiguity, and seems to me to be a valid attempt to plug a time-sink.

However, to conclude, the infraction was for ignoring a mod instruction which is exactly what happened. But for the record, I also agree that a mod instruction was the prudent thing to do given the black hole that was the topic, and the response from Scofflaw mentioned above.

Permabear

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Dades

Permabear, the relevant times are of the warning (whether or not based on a post that was completed after the 'edit'), and your post that got infracted.

Those times are 10:39 and 10:45, respectively. Are you telling me you made that post at 10:45 without having seen the warning 6 minutes earlier?

If this was the premise of this thread you've gone a bloody long way abut it.

Permabear

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Dades

Permabear, I've discussed the timing issue with Scofflaw and am willing to lift the red card on the basis of your claim to have not seen the warning before making the post in question.

It isn't lost on me however that posts can be deleted once made and you could have done so afterwards, as Scofflaw's warning would have appeared as soon as you hit submit.

At any rate I'm content to draw a line under this incident. Your other points are not really relevant to DR, but let me just say I've no problem with the way things were handled in the thread.

Regarding history between you and Scofflaw, an examination of your User Log indicates that you will have received (once this is lifted) a mighty total of three red cards from Scofflaw in the last four years. I should also mention the two yellows from different mods in that period, and the four infractions and a ban from different mods in the year preceding that convenient cut-off date. This, together with the fact that you are one of the most prolific posters in the forums of which Scofflaw is one of the most active mods, does not suggest to me anything out of the ordinary. Clearly you're both very familiar with each other, but this does not an agenda make.

Anyhow, If you want follow this further, you'll need to take it Helpdesk. I'm going to assume you are at least content to have the red card lifted and will request same.

Dades

Permabear

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Dades

Your points are on the record and I've asked for the infraction to be lifted.

I think we're done here.

Asiaprod

Thanks, I'll wrap up the thread so.