Is a PLC seen as progression from the Leaving Cert?

jaydoxx

I ask because a Fetac level 5 is on the same level as the Leaving Certificate (levels 4 and 5) on the National Framework of Qualifications as seen here:

[HTML]http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/FanDiagram/nqai_nfq_08.html[/HTML]

I figured a Post Leaving Certificate course would obviously be higher but now I'm confused as to my eligibility for the BTEA programme. For all intents and purposes, at least regarding BTEA eligibility, does a Fetac level 5 constitute progression from the Leaving Cert.?

Thanks in advance!:)

TomWN

jaydoxx wrote: »

I ask because a Fetac level 5 is on the same level as the Leaving Certificate (levels 4 and 5) on the National Framework of Qualifications as seen here:

[HTML]http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/FanDiagram/nqai_nfq_08.html[/HTML]I figured a Post Leaving Certificate course would obviously be higher but now I'm confused as to my eligibility for the BTEA programme. For all intents and purposes, at least regarding BTEA eligibility, does a Fetac level 5 constitute progression from the Leaving Cert.?

Thanks in advance!:)

Yes, a FETAC Level 5 plc is higher than a leaving cert. (generally you have to have completed a leaving cert to do a plc)

Yes you can get BTEA for a PLC as long as you meet the age requirements (or at least 2 years out of education for a plc), and being the right ammount of time unemployed (3 months for plc).

click the link for more details from citizens information

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/back_to_education/back_to_education_allowance.html

jaydoxx

Thanks for that!:)

daychris76

No is the simple answer.
Examples.
5 = leaving cert 6 = plc 7 =ord degree 8 = hons degree 9 = masters 10 = phd

TomWN

daychris76 wrote: »

No is the simple answer.
Examples.
5 = leaving cert 6 = plc 7 =ord degree 8 = hons degree 9 = masters 10 = phd

It's not quite as simple as what you are saying. There are different levels that are not properly explained on the national framework of qualifications.

In your example you have completely ignored a Hetac Level 6 higher certificate, which is a third level qualification. Is a level 6 plc, or a fetac level 6 componets certificate (something that can could be done in as little as a week) equivalent to it? No. You need 180 credits to get a Hetac level 6 award. A level 6 plc or Fetac component cert may only equate to 30 credits. If you progress to third level those 30 credits may exempt you from doing a module or 2 on a higher education course in some cases, if the courses are directly related. It's similar for level 5.

I've just looked at the framework in more detail, and quoting direct from the framework of qualifications:

Leaving Certificate and its various programmes is placed at levels 4 and 5. It is the final course in the Irish secondary school system. It takes a minimum of two years of preparation, but an optional Transition Year means that for some students it takes place three years after the Junior Certificate Examination. This award affords progression to programmes leading to a further education and training award at levels 5 and 6, or to a higher education and training award at level 6 or higher.

In order to get on a plc course it is required that you have completed the leaving, or have relevant "life experience" for the course, therefore a plc seems to be higher than the leaving.

GaryIrv93

Hope this isin't off topic:

I'm doing a Sustainable Construction related PLC which I quite like. It's well balanced with theory, practical work and includes Maths, CAD, Communications, Drawing, Work Experience and other subjects. It's a Level 5 course with links including Civil Engineering, Building Services Engineering, Architectural Technology, and Construction Management in DIT. The thing is I was hoping mainly for a technology related course in college, however fell short on points. So I was wondering whether a Distinction, the equivilant of 400 points if I'm right, could be used instead of Links Schemes to get into other random courses, as long as they require equal to or below 400 points? (Most of my CAO choices this year ended up being between the mid-100's and mid-300's)

paperclip2

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Hope this isin't off topic:

I'm doing a Sustainable Construction related PLC which I quite like. It's well balanced with theory, practical work and includes Maths, CAD, Communications, Drawing, Work Experience and other subjects. It's a Level 5 course with links including Civil Engineering, Building Services Engineering, Architectural Technology, and Construction Management in DIT. The thing is I was hoping mainly for a technology related course in college, however fell short on points. So I was wondering whether a Distinction, the equivilant of 400 points if I'm right, could be used instead of Links Schemes to get into other random courses, as long as they require equal to or below 400 points? (Most of my CAO choices this year ended up being between the mid-100's and mid-300's)

Hi Gary,

Many third level courses will accept FETAC courses as legitimate grounds for application even if they aren't part of the links scheme, which is going to go anyway, by 2014 and be replaced by the Common Awards System.
If you look up your preferred courses on http://www.qualifax.ie and scroll down to the FETAC Applicants section it will give you information on what specific FETAC modules are required.

I had a look at some of the Computer and related courses in IT Carlow, Athlone IT and Tallaght IT. Several specify that a FETAC level 5/6 qualification in any subject is sufficient although you generally need to have completed a FETAC Maths module as part of the PLC.
Most commonly accepted ones are Maths, Maths for Computing and Maths for Engineering. However if you have a decent maths grade from Leaving Cert this can be accepted in lieu of these.

So if you check your preferred courses on Qualifax this should give you an idea if your current PLC is acceptable for the courses you want to apply for. Also if in doubt contact the college. Hope this helps.

GaryIrv93

paperclip2 wrote: »

Hi Gary,

Many third level courses will accept FETAC courses as legitimate grounds for application even if they aren't part of the links scheme, which is going to go anyway, by 2014 and be replaced by the Common Awards System.
If you look up your preferred courses on http://www.qualifax.ie and scroll down to the FETAC Applicants section it will give you information on what specific FETAC modules are required.

I had a look at some of the Computer and related courses in IT Carlow, Athlone IT and Tallaght IT. Several specify that a FETAC level 5/6 qualification in any subject is sufficient although you generally need to have completed a FETAC Maths module as part of the PLC.
Most commonly accepted ones are Maths, Maths for Computing and Maths for Engineering. However if you have a decent maths grade from Leaving Cert this can be accepted in lieu of these.

So if you check your preferred courses on Qualifax this should give you an idea if your current PLC is acceptable for the courses you want to apply for. Also if in doubt contact the college. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply paperclip. I was hoping for this course in DIT: http://www.qualifax.ie/qf/QFPublic/?Mainsec=courses&Subsec=course_details&ID=55267 It says in requirements that anything less than a full award (Distinction?) ''is not sufficient'', whether that goes for the PLC's which actually have links with the course or all of them I don't know. I'm assuming it's for all PLC's, with the best 8 modules counted, mine has 9 of them, which has Maths optional which I'm taking since I unfortunately failed Maths in the LC. Maths in my course is pretty much the equivilant to OL in the Leaving Cert.

paperclip2

Hi GaryIrv93.

This is a bit of a bummer but I had a look at the DIT course you linked and spoke to DIT Admissions.
The course you are interested in is currently part of the Higher Education links scheme which is in operation until 2014 and for entry in 2013 they are looking for applicants to have completed on of the named awards listed:

• CCTXX - Control Technology
• CELTX - Electronic Technology
• CENGT - Engineering Technology
• CITXX - Information Technology
• CMTXX - Motor Technology

Unless your plc course code is one of these, DIT can't offer you a place as the say you haven't met the entry requirements for the course.
I asked about entry beyond the Higher Ed links scheme under Common Awards Scheme but all the admissions office could say was that they don't see their entry requirements moving away from the modules covered in these courses.
Basically you can do any award but you must have covered in that award the relevant modules under CAS. The relevant modules in this case being those currently offered on the awards listed above.

GaryIrv93

Alright, thanks for doing all that. That's unfortunate news. I really want that DIT course so do you think it would be a good idea to apply to another PLC next year namely one of those which has links with it, or just hope that they'll accept a full FETAC award from my current PLC if the course turns out to have any available FETAC places left in it next year?

paperclip2

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Alright, thanks for doing all that. That's unfortunate news. I really want that DIT course so do you think it would be a good idea to apply to another PLC next year namely one of those which has links with it, or just hope that they'll accept a full FETAC award from my current PLC if the course turns out to have any available FETAC places left in it next year?

They will still have entry requirements based on the modules from the courses listed above so I can see you needing at least some of the core modules from these. Have you spoken to DIT admissions yourself yet? If you outline what you have they might be able to give you a better idea as to what you should do between now and next Sept.

Have you looked at similar courses in other colleges?

GaryIrv93

paperclip2 wrote: »

They will still have entry requirements based on the modules from the courses listed above so I can see you needing at least some of the core modules from these. Have you spoken to DIT admissions yourself yet? If you outline what you have they might be able to give you a better idea as to what you should do between now and next Sept.

Have you looked at similar courses in other colleges?

Here's a link to the course I'm doing at the moment: http://www.dlcfe.ie/11CT5.html By the looks of it it seems to have a few modules with some relations to Aviation Tech subjects, such as Maths (Leaving Cert OL equivilant), Communications, and there is a little bit of electronics involved in the Renewable Energy module in the making of wind turbines, and experimenting with solar panels etc. Also a lot of practical work involved. I've yet to speak to the admissions office. Most of my preffered course choices are technology related such as this DIT course, and am also interested in general technology/sciencey courses such as those in DIT / ITT.

phonypony

It may be unlikely, but not unheard of, to switch your course, as its only been a few weeks since you started. Maybe talk to your course admin. The 'Cert in Information Technology with Networking' at DCFE would lead to the CITXX certificate. I was offered a place on the Aviation Tech course based on that award.

GaryIrv93

phonypony wrote: »

It may be unlikely, but not unheard of, to switch your course, as its only been a few weeks since you started. Maybe talk to your course admin. The 'Cert in Information Technology with Networking' at DCFE would lead to the CITXX certificate. I was offered a place on the Aviation Tech course based on that award.

It's an idea, though most PLC's were full up by the time I started looking - only got my current course in a bit of an emergency, as I was expecting fully to get a course in DIT. I think I might've looked at the IT course you mentioned. If I were to do another PLC with actual links next year which I could, I'd rather have it closer to home, such as in Greenhills College, which is only around a fifteen minute cycle from where I live. That college also has a few courses with close links to my desired courses and especially ITT. Depends though, how was the IT course for you? And how's Aviation going at the moment assuming you've accepted the offer?

phonypony

I deferred the place in DIT 'til next year, looking forward to it. Like yourself, I've been trying to get people's opinions of the course, with little success... I was (and am) at Greenhills too as it happens; it was a decent course and, provided you put the effort in, an all distinctions result is achievable, I'm sure you'll find that out yourself this year anyway. There were a lot of all-nighters towards the end, but it was worth it. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to get back in touch with them to see if there's a place, last year we were a few people short of a full class and this year we have had people join the course just this week...

paperclip2

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

It's an idea, though most PLC's were full up by the time I started looking - only got my current course in a bit of an emergency, as I was expecting fully to get a course in DIT. I think I might've looked at the IT course you mentioned. If I were to do another PLC with actual links next year which I could, I'd rather have it closer to home, such as in Greenhills College, which is only around a fifteen minute cycle from where I live. That college also has a few courses with close links to my desired courses and especially ITT. Depends though, how was the IT course for you? And how's Aviation going at the moment assuming you've accepted the offer?

Just be aware that if you are currently getting a grant or BTEA for this level 5 you wont be eligible for these for a 2nd level 5 course. You would need to be progressing.

GaryIrv93

paperclip2 wrote: »

Just be aware that if you are currently getting a grant or BTEA for this level 5 you wont be eligible for these for a 2nd level 5 course. You would need to be progressing.

I'm fully aware of this, however paying for it shouldn't be too much of a problem if I choose to do another Level 5 next year. I'm also still waiting on my grant application this year to go through.

I'm still debating with myself whether I should or shouldn't use (assuming I'll get it) a full FETAC award to use my current course's links with DIT and go onto Civil Engineering or go onto another Level 5 with links with many courses I'm interested in. Although Civil Engineering looks like a decent course, and the best link, I started a thread on it several months ago asking what it was like and got a good few responses about it being full of complex maths, physics, not to mention a massive workload and a high failure / dropout rate. I've a brother doing Mechanical Engineering and the same went for his course. Although I wouldn't want to spend another year out of college (mainly not wanting to be behind my friends and miss out again on the many clubs and societies in college) I don't think it would be a great idea to do CE for the sheer hell of it with a high likelihood failing/dropping out of it. Wheras doing a Level 5 again would give me a broader education and idea of what I want to do, with the possibility of moving on to my most preffered course choices, but it would mean spending another year out of college.

GaryIrv93

paperclip2 wrote: »

Hi GaryIrv93.
The course you are interested in is currently part of the Higher Education links scheme which is in operation until 2014 and for entry in 2013 they are looking for applicants to have completed on of the named awards listed:

Are the links schemes being replaced in 2014?

paperclip2

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Are the links schemes being replaced in 2014?

There's going to be changes to module scoring in it.

There will be no change in the way CAO points are allocated to FETAC graduates for entry into Institutes of Technology in September 2012. However, for entry into Institutes of Technology from September 2013, all FETAC level 5 and FETAC level 6 awards will be scored to deliver a maximum of 400 CAO points.

http://www.fetac.ie/fetac/documents/Progression_to_Higher_Education_2013.pdf

GaryIrv93

paperclip2 wrote: »

There's going to be changes to module scoring in it.



http://www.fetac.ie/fetac/documents/Progression_to_Higher_Education_2013.pdf

So a full award will deliver a maximum of 400 points which could then allow entry into any course as long as it's below 400 points?

paperclip2

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

So a full award will deliver a maximum of 400 points which could then allow entry into any course as long as it's below 400 points?

That's the theory but it wont be universally applied afaik. I emailed CAO to ask them about it and got this:

*** DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL ***
To submit a query, go to http://www.cao.ie/contact


Dear XXX,

The present position will continue, with some courses having quotas and others having FETAC scores competing directly with leaving certificate and other school leaving scores.

Yours sincerely,

Joseph O`Grady

Operations Manager

Its a case of speaking to colleges directly to check what their policy is I think.