When does a minority cease existing as a minority?

paky

For instance in Ireland, Irish people have existed as a minority group within the British Isles. What set Irish people apart from the other minority groups within the British Isles i.e. the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish(?) was the fact that they were predominantly Catholic. This lead to widespread persecution up until very recent times predominantly at the hands of the dominant group, the English.

My question is, did Irish Catholics seize existing as a minority group once they gained independence, or once the Irish Free State was created, and is the fact that the Irish Free State was created by the British a relevant factor in answering that question?

paky

Sorry the title was suppose to be 'When does a minority seize existing as a minority'.

I suspect you also meant to say "cease" (as in "put an end to, stop existing") as opposed to "seize" (as in "to take hold of, to capture"). A common mistake that I've been subject to myself many times. I'll update the thread title and body for you, if you like.

I'll reply to your OP a little later, too.

paky

paky wrote: »

My question is, did Irish Catholics seize existing as a minority group once they gained independence, or once the Irish Free State was created, and is the fact that the Irish Free State was created by the British a relevant factor in answering that question?

Yes, the Irish people (or Irish Catholics as you state) ceased to be a minority group under the Irish Free State, just like they're not a minority group in the Republic of Ireland. In reference to the Irish Free State, how could the Irish people have been a minority when they constituted a majority of the population and held control of the government? The Irish Free State was an autonomous nation, so minority groups of that state were defined in relation to the demographics of that state. If you're defining the Irish in relation to the British Empire/Commonwealth, then they would have been a minority, but I see no reason to do so.

Nitochris

Are we talking minority or sub-altern?

paky

gvn wrote: »

Yes, the Irish people (or Irish Catholics as you state) ceased to be a minority group under the Irish Free State, just like they're not a minority group in the Republic of Ireland. In reference to the Irish Free State, how could the Irish people have been a minority when they constituted a majority of the population and held control of the government? The Irish Free State was an autonomous nation, so minority groups of that state were defined in relation to the demographics of that state. If you're defining the Irish in relation to the British Empire/Commonwealth, then they would have been a minority, but I see no reason to do so.

My argument is that Irish people never ceased existing as a minority group for the simple fact that the Irish Free Sate's/Republic of Ireland's borders were drawn up by the British Government. This fact instills a British perception of what it is to be Irish i.e. a minority group and also creates a sense that to be Irish is to be Catholic. This holds bearing on how Irish people percieve themselves and perceive other Irish people.

Jan Hus

When they become a majority obviously

Jan Hus,

I appreciate your posts in this forum, but, while your posts are welcome, simple, meaningless one-line remarks are not. All of your posts in this forum thus far have been meaningless one-line remarks or tautological statements, neither of which are particularly welcome. Please aim to write posts that have quality and substance — we aim for this to be a forum with high-quality discussion.

Thank you.

chezter

If the world had a single government & let’s use Britain as an example In Britain the British exist as a minority in Europe & in Europe the Europeans exist as a minority within the world. Would Britain gaining independence from that world government change the fact they are a minority within Europe or the world for that matter. So your right the Irish are still a minority. I don’t get the religious part. How does been catholic make Irish people perceive themselves?

Been part of one religion while your neighbour is part of another is commonplace everywhere, so how does this make you perceive yourself to me it makes no difference it’s just the way we have built our society, I suppose there are some intrinsic details that link up but everything is linked even on these isles our two religions are linked & these are again linked to the other religions beyond these isles.

Sivousplait

Power is the most crucial aspect of a minority ceasing to be a minority. Population and control of land are aspects of power. The British population and land space obviously dwarfs the Irish land space - we are a smaller nation and have a smaller population than the British. Nobody could imagine the Irish taking over control of English land but one did see the English controlling the Irish land through sheer brute force when it came to armies and this paved the way for control and implementation of English power in Ireland by way of the Plantations.

I hold the point that we did stop existing as a minority once we gained independence just as the Scottish people would have remained a minority within the English state if they hadn't of gained independence to become a sovereign State within the British nation and thus, usurped the hegemony of the English dominance of the British Isles to some extent.