Junctions & yields.

Lando Griffin

Daily I use these 3 junctions and it seems to me that each one the drivers make up their own rules.

Fig A. Crossroads with traffic lights.
Car A is turning to his left while Car B is turning to his right onto the same road. Here again Car B assumes right of way although it is crossing the junction. My understanding is Car A should have right of way as it is not crossing traffic.
Fig B The car is turning to his left and the traffic light on the little island is red. Car assumes that the traffic light is for straight ahead and proceeds turning left. I am actually in favour of this but is it legal?
Fig C. T junction with mini roundabout. Each driver arrives at junction together and Car A has indicated to turn right. Car A expects to have right of way and more times than not Car B stops to give right of way. My understanding is Car B is not crossing the junction so A has to yield right of way.
Is this just a case of the drivers not having a clue and is there any other “unwritten” rules?

Mycroft H

Fig A: Car B has right of way.

Fig B: I'd stop. It depends on where the stop line is.

Fig C: Its a roundabout, give way to traffic proceeding from the right. If Car A is crossing the roundabout as Car B is getting to the junction, Car B should yield.

kbyte61

I've come junctions with stop signs beside them and yield signs painted on the ground

Tallon

My eyes hurt looking at that drawing

kbyte61

In the case of figure A I would have thought that car A would have right of way since if both cars were turning off of a major road onto a minor one thats the way it would be.

IrishZeus

In Fig A, the traffic lights determine who has right of passage. If somehow, the lights signal both sides to move, then Car A turning left has right of way as they are not crossing the junction.

There is no way that B has right of way from the information you provided, unless there is a green arrow (pointing right) telling him to proceed.

Valetta

Surely in Figure A Car A has the right of way?

How does he know that Car B isn't going straight on?

Lando Griffin

IrishZeus wrote: »

In Fig A, the traffic lights determine who has right of passage. If somehow, the lights signal both sides to move, then Car A turning left has right of way as they are not crossing the junction.

There is no way that B has right of way from the information you provided, unless there is a green arrow (pointing right) telling him to proceed.

There is no arrow on the lights, but everytime I arrive at this junction, Car B cuts across forcing the Yield.

Mycroft H

Valetta wrote: »

How does he know that Car B isn't going straight on?

Positioning, speed and (not always) indicators

mathepac

OSI wrote: »

A: Car B does have right of way. There is more often than not a yield at the junction where A is sitting.

B: Of all the ones of these I come across, the lights are for the main carraigeway, not the turn off, whihc usually has it's own lights. So the car would be fine assuming there is no red for them.

C: A has right of way here. I'm pretty sure yielding to your right on a roundabout (which is whats is in affect here) is a written rule.

Well done spot on IMHO. It really is simple you yield to traffic approaching from your right.

In B above take Newland's Cross as an example. Traffic coming down the Belgard road will have a filter light on thgeir left that acts in unison with the traffic coming up the Naas Rd. from Dublin.

seamus

In Fig. A, practically every junction I've ever encountered of this type gives priority to Car B. Logically it's a "offset" junction, so Car B is not crossing the same road as Car A, instead Car A is joining the road where Car B is already driving.

Fig. B is more ambiguous and impossible to say for sure without being there, but in general if there is no traffic light on the left-hand edge of the lane, then the light on the right doesn't apply. The old N4/M50 northbound junction used to have a problem with this; There was a continuous lane (separated by a kerb) for traffic going onto the N4 westbound and traffic signals for cars joining the roundabout to go eastbound. Now and again some numpty would get confused by the lights and stop dead in the westbound lane, thinking the traffic lights (on their right) were for them.

Fig. C is a roundabout and should be treated exactly the same.

IrishZeus

Lando Griffin wrote: »

There is no arrow on the lights, but everytime I arrive at this junction, Car B cuts across forcing the Yield.

If there is no yield sign or other signage, then car A has right of way.

Valetta

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html


This should be definitive for Figure A, showing that Car A has the right of way.

If you plan to turn right at a junction and a vehicle from the opposite direction wants to turn into the same road, the vehicle that is turning left has right of way. If yours is the vehicle turning right, you must wait for the other vehicle to turn first.

Mycroft H

Another thread that proves that nobody has a clue on the roads.....

Patrick2010

Valetta wrote: »

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html


This should be definitive for Figure A, showing that Car A has the right of way.

Nope, assume the junction is like here where car A is turning left , joining a road B is already on. A has to give way.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Butterfield+Avenue,+Rathfarnham&hl=en&ll=53.293028,-6.308684&spn=0.013698,0.027595&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=7.001993,14.128418&oq=butterfield&hnear=Butterfield+Ave,+County+Dublin&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.293777,-6.309005&panoid=4F9AQaCq452lKFcap8nJQw&cbp=12,45,,0,0

Try this, the view from car A

Valetta

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Nope, assume the junction is like here where car A is turning left , joining a road B is already on. A has to give way.

http://goo.gl/maps/Hhtqk[/QUOTE]

Can't see the junction from that link.

leeomurchu

Do you actually have a driving licence you're wrong in all circumstances. How is that possible ???

I think you better take a read of the rules of the road again before you get back into your car.

Lando Griffin

Fig A & B is this junction

Figure A & Figure B

seamus

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Fig A is this junction

Figure A

What a wonderful piece of road planning :rolleyes:

The placement of the lines and the lights would indicate to me that what you say is correct. The "islands" appear to be a piece of road furniture and not lane separators.

In Fig. A, Car a has right of way. In Fig B, all vehicles must stop at the red light (actually behind the white line).

However, it's understandable why people would get confused, I imagine even a judge would have difficulty making a definitive call on it.

IrishZeus

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Fig A is this junction

Figure A & Figure B

One of the worst junctions I've seen in terms of signage and who has right of way. I think if I was turning left there - I would yield to the right. (I know this goes against what I said above but seeing the junction in the flesh shows how crappy it really is!)

leeomurchu

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Fig A is this junction

Figure A

I'd say that traffic light is meant for both cars.

In other words they both have to stop when it turns read as it doesn't appear to be a filter lane left as there's no yield sign or road markings to indicate this.

There doesn't appear to be a filter light so it should be treated as normal junction and all cars must obey lights but yes it is a terrible lay out for a junction as it creates a filter lane that isn't there.

So as you were saying earlier the car turning right should yield to the oncoming car turning left.

ofcork

Car A must have right of way there,car B is just anticipating the lights trying to get through first although its not the worst junction ive been through.