My Underage Nightmare

doirepol

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

My son was one of the main players in the local team before this year however he has been going backwards to the point where even I can see he is only holding down a place on the team because I'm helping coach.
He is leaner and fitter than in previous years however he always seems to be content to run a few yards behind the forward he's marking and when he does get the ball he either panic's and gives a bad pass or will loose possession to weaker players in the tackle.
I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

Brain Stroking

doirepol wrote: »

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

My son was one of the main players in the local team before this year however he has been going backwards to the point where even I can see he is only holding down a place on the team because I'm helping coach.
He is leaner and fitter than in previous years however he always seems to be content to run a few yards behind the forward he's marking and when he does get the ball he either panic's and gives a bad pass or will loose possession to weaker players in the tackle.
I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

I think your son may have the common problem found predominantly amongst club footballers called "not being very good"

looder

doirepol wrote: »

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

My son was one of the main players in the local team before this year however he has been going backwards to the point where even I can see he is only holding down a place on the team because I'm helping coach.
He is leaner and fitter than in previous years however he always seems to be content to run a few yards behind the forward he's marking and when he does get the ball he either panic's and gives a bad pass or will loose possession to weaker players in the tackle.
I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

Maybe he's not enjoying it? especially if you're arguing with him the whole time.

If this is the case, I wouldn't be blaming the wife or inlaws. That blame lies directly at your door for being too pushy with him.

At 12, the games are about fun and not win at all costs which is the attitude you seem to have. That's why the GAA brought in the Go Game in 2011.

Tonight I seen a 50 year old man celebrate an u14 B hurling final (Divisional) more than his son did. It was sad to look at.

I really don't mean to be harsh on you but you really need to have a long hard look at yourself when it comes to how you are dealing with your son.

Have a read here too. (I'm not claiming to be an expert on the area or anything but here's an excerpt from a study on player retention in GAA that myself and another chap compiled earlier this year - I hate seen parents ruin a childs enjoyment in sport.):

3.1 Environmental Factors
Environmental factors refer to the social and external factors as well as the interpersonal influences on sport participation. Ferreira and Armstrong (2002) suggest that previous research has proven that environmental factors contribute to the entrance into, continuance and enjoyment of sport activities. The environmental factors examined in this study include: (a) coaches, (b) parents, (c) peers, (d) team-mates and (e) geographic location.
3.1.1 Coaches
Coaches can have a persuasive influence on youth sport dropout. Authors as far back as Ames (1992) argued that coaches create psychological climates that affect participants in sports. Children in organised sports are exposed to goal structures created by adults who govern the achievement context. Coaches can create either an environment that is more conducive to skill learning or an environment that focuses purely on competition (i.e., mastery and competitive environments, respectively). These environments created by the coaches’ influence may affect sport participants’ motivations to continue or drop out of their respective sport. Coaches can become a potential causal attribution for parents who observe the child–coach interaction. Hence the need for quality coaches to deal with such situations. The Ferreira and Armstrong (2002) study found that coaches create the psychological environment for the child’s participation, and when the climate created does not match with parents’ or children’s expectations, dislike for the organisation that supports this coach can occur. Other authors such as Salguero et al. (2003) and Molinero et al. (2006) all agree with these findings by suggesting that conflict with coaches is among the primary reasons for player dropout, regardless of age or gender. Fraser-Thomas et al. (2008) found that dropouts received significantly less one-on-one coaching throughout their developmental years. This may be due to the fact that these players weren't viewed by their coaches as top players or players who could make it. Coaches have to be aware of the potential talent that a child may possess.

Colm Burtchaell, hurling development officer of Dublin stressed the importance of coaching the coaches. In their Blueprint for Change and Success report it states that they will have succeeded when the professionalism of their management and the quality of their coaches is envied and emulated and according to Michael O’ Grady this situation has now arrived. O’ Grady was part of the Dublin Hurling Review Group that penned the report back in 2001. Burtchaell also advised that Dublin GAA created an online resource for coaches () which provides coaches with information on a number of workshops and coach education programmes being run within the county. There are also lots of ideas on different drills for coaches to bring back to their training session within their clubs available as well as a number of relatively inexpensive books, which have been produced by Dublin GAA Games Development, which can be purchased from the website. Eoin Walsh, the Waterford games development officer also stressed the importance of providing assistance to help improve their coaches. He said Waterford are currently working in association with Waterford Institute of Technology in developing players programmes and educating coaches in best practice. It will be interesting to monitor Waterford’s progress in the coming years. Brian Ryan, who is the games development officer in Kilkenny, stated that they are always looking to up skill their coaches through coach education programmes and making other coaching resources readily available to all coaches in the county.
3.1.2 Parents
Ferreira and Armstrong (2002) note that perceptions and behaviours of parents undoubtedly influence youth sport participation. As is the case for coaches, parents can also foster a competitive environment and influence their child’s goal structure to be task or ego oriented, subsequently influencing their sport experiences. In addition, parents’ reactions to game outcomes and their general influence on their children may also influence other participants and other parents due to parent–child interactions that occur during practices and games. A study by Babkes & Weiss (1999) found that youths who have parents or are exposed to other parents who are positive role models regarding sport participation, who have positive beliefs about their children’s competency, and who also give frequent positive responses to their children’s sport performances, are more likely to continue participation in the respective sport activity. Therefore, parents in general, may directly (and/or indirectly) influence youth sport dropout. A more recent study by Boiche and Sarrazin (2009) concluded that clubs should involve parents as much as possible in order to decrease player dropout. According to the US Youth Soccer (2007) development plan, Real Madrid CF, Bayern Munich, and Ajax Amsterdam all provide parents with information on “how to be a better Soccer Parent.” They also provide communication channels where parents can ask questions and provide feedback that will give them realistic goals and expectations for their child. Real Madrid CF provide courses for parents which help provide factual information on codes of conduct, health, diet and fitness while also providing technical information on recommended practices and skill tips and challenges. Pat Daly also stresses the importance of parents in GAA. He states that it is imperative that parents are informed when/where games are to be played in advance. He advised that if fixtures didn’t go ahead at their scheduled times, it could lead to the parent being unimpressed with the organisation of games which in turn will lead to player dropout/ the player choosing to play another sport. Molinero et al. (2006) back these findings up by declaring that one of the primary reasons for player dropout in their formative years is that parents or peers no longer wanted the participant to compete in his/her chosen sport.

doirepol

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think your son may have the common problem found predominantly amongst club footballers called "not being very good"

He inherited that from his father !!

curraghduff

I'm going to agree wit LOODER on this one, its obvious he isnt enjoying playing. the enthusiam is gone, when i was playing underage it was the same story, i wanted to play soccer but the father wanted me to only play hurling, i used to hate going playing it.

doirepol

looder wrote: »

Maybe he's not enjoying it? especially if you're arguing with him the whole time.

If this is the case, I wouldn't be blaming the wife or inlaws. That blame lies directly at your door for being too pushy with him.

At 12, the games are about fun and not win at all costs which is the attitude you seem to have. That's why the GAA brought in the Go Game in 2011.

Tonight I seen a 50 year old man celebrate an u14 B hurling final (Divisional) more than his son did. It was sad to look at.

I really don't mean to be harsh on you but you really need to have a long hard look at yourself when it comes to how you are dealing with your son.

Have a read here too. (I'm not claiming to be an expert on the area or anything but here's an excerpt from a study on player retention in GAA that myself and another chap compiled earlier this year - I hate seen parents ruin a childs enjoyment in sport.):

Thanks for that Looder, he really isn't enjoying football at the minute.

My son's main gripes is he always gets substituted first and it's true however by trying to be seen to be fair I have to show I'm giving the full panel the same opportunity as my son. The locals have only been too quick to offer advice over the fence in the past and by taking my own child off I give them no room for complaint. Since the move from U12 Go Games to U14 a few of them are very like your 50 year old hurling fan.

I've already advised weeks ago I won't be helping out next year due to work as I realised the two of us enjoy the banter on the way home from his hurling match's a lot more and maybe it's because I've no involvement in that set-up.

Should parents be banned from coaching underage ? My experience of it at times is "You can't please anyone"

DoctaDee

I've coached from U8 to U16, including 2 stints with my own young lads in the team. The secret is to view them the same as anyone else on the team. I've personally found it rewarding taking kids from U8 to U14 in one instance, and watch their development and enjoyed their sucesses - nothing wrong with that.

robbiezero

looder wrote: »

Tonight I seen a 50 year old man celebrate an u14 B hurling final (Divisional) more than his son did. It was sad to look at.

What's sad about that?
Without people like that lad, the GAA would be dead.

DoctaDee

robbiezero wrote: »

What's sad about that?
Without people like that lad, the GAA would be dead.

Yep agreed ... I wish more parents would come to watch, encourage their young lads/lasses, underage games at times are viewed as just cheap childcare

yop

Wouldn't panic OP, he is only 12, the lad is hitting the hardest years of his life becoming a teenager, so on top of that any pressure on the field isn't going to help.
Plenty of county players were average underage and then progressed well in their teens, and vice versa!

So let him enjoy his game, don't criticize him though as that won't help anyone. Encourage him at every chance and suggest as opposed to dictate to him.

Good luck with it.

farmerval

Just a little thought, has your son gotten a bad belt or knock, from what I've seen with tens and twelves sometimes a bad bang or knock can take a while for them to get their confidence back.
One of our under 10's last year in a puck around got hit in the thigh by a sliotar that had been hit in from distance and he never saw coming, and it definitely took him two months to come back to hiself playing. He was just a little nervous and apprehensive playing.
Another thing to look at might be drills at training where the players compete for the ball, we are doing it for the last few weeks in hurling and football, just tossing the ball up between two players and getting them to compete for it. When they are isolated and have to compete one on one it showed us a lot of kids that were uncomfortable with the physical aspect of the game. We try and build it into training more now to give the kids confidence in the hurly burly of sport.
In the broad spectrum at training we see the more different drills you do the more you see in the kids, drills isolate the skills and makes it easier to see the deficits and positives players have and what they need help with.

DoctaDee

Yeah I've found it hard to "coach" timidness out of some of the kids. The old adage about telling them that they'll be twice as likely to get hurt if they go in half hearted doesn't work ... they're more liable not to go in at all ! As the previous poster said .. I think they're more worried about the ball injuring them than an opponent

bruschi

DoctaDee wrote: »

Yeah I've found it hard to "coach" timidness out of some of the kids. The old adage about telling them that they'll be twice as likely to get hurt if they go in half hearted doesn't work ... they're more liable not to go in at all ! As the previous poster said .. I think they're more worried about the ball injuring them than an opponent

do more games in smaller areas, ie have a 5 on 5 possesion game or something in a really confined area where they have no choice but to get "stuck in". Another one is to have a tennis ball or sliothar, and have them throw it and have goals either end, again in a small area, and tell them no rules apply. Parents wont like it, but once the kids get going, they'll be grabbing lads and throwing shoulders and hitting off each other. obviously there is a balance to these, and niether of these coach skills, but it shows them a carefree attitude to go in for a ball and not really worry about their own consequence.

DoctaDee

bruschi wrote: »

............, but it shows them a carefree attitude to go in for a ball and not really worry about their own consequence.

And sure they're all covered on the player insurance and with the mouthguard/gumshield compulsory next year i was thinkin of bringing some white collar boxing into the training ! .. Ta

nice_guy80

why not help coach a different team in the club and leave him to enjoy the football with his friends?

just an idea.

rebel girl 15

yop wrote: »

Wouldn't panic OP, he is only 12, the lad is hitting the hardest years of his life becoming a teenager, so on top of that any pressure on the field isn't going to help.
Plenty of county players were average underage and then progressed well in their teens, and vice versa!

So let him enjoy his game, don't criticize him though as that won't help anyone. Encourage him at every chance and suggest as opposed to dictate to him.

Good luck with it.

Eoin Cadogen is a case in point - he was barely making the third team in his club at 16,

doirepol wrote: »

Thanks for that Looder, he really isn't enjoying football at the minute.

My son's main gripes is he always gets substituted first and it's true however by trying to be seen to be fair I have to show I'm giving the full panel the same opportunity as my son. The locals have only been too quick to offer advice over the fence in the past and by taking my own child off I give them no room for complaint. Since the move from U12 Go Games to U14 a few of them are very like your 50 year old hurling fan.

I've already advised weeks ago I won't be helping out next year due to work as I realised the two of us enjoy the banter on the way home from his hurling match's a lot more and maybe it's because I've no involvement in that set-up.

Should parents be banned from coaching underage ? My experience of it at times is "You can't please anyone"

I'd say you getting out of it will help - leave him play what he enjoys, and keep encouraging him. Give him things that he can improve on, and what he has done well in a very positive manner, in a banter sort of way. Leave him play the hurling, and see how he gets on with the football next year if he goes back. Keep encouraging him, and don't get too serious with things atm either!

Tom Joad

At 12 key thing should be that he enjoys the game with no pressure - at that age they develop at different rates... if by the time he is 16 he is still playing and enjoying his ball you can look at what needs improving and help him there.

Put too much pressure on him and he will resent you, the game and walk away..

Only you can tell if you need to walk away from the teams he's involved with in terms of coaching - go with your gut and have a chat with the young lad - am sure there are other jobs around the club you could do..

Good luck with it OP

IrishAm

doirepol wrote: »

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

My son was one of the main players in the local team before this year however he has been going backwards to the point where even I can see he is only holding down a place on the team because I'm helping coach.
He is leaner and fitter than in previous years however he always seems to be content to run a few yards behind the forward he's marking and when he does get the ball he either panic's and gives a bad pass or will loose possession to weaker players in the tackle.
I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

Hey,man.


I know what your son is going through. My da did the same. Voluntereed for all my training sessions. He was there for all my games and all my training games. When I made a mistake, he was the first to let me know. I played for a soccer team too. Same experience.

All the other players had their parents turn up for half their home games. But I was the kid who had my da judge me from every game I played. As a 12-13 year old.

My da got involved in all three of my sports, soccer, GAA and boxing. He was an aloof motherfoooker, yet he was able to bring me down with his mere presence.

Da, what did you think of that hat trick?

Da, me points?

Da, did you hear me trainer, my hands are rapid!

All of them, which were true, were put down.

My dad is very aloof. He came to all my games. And made me as nervous as a priest in a playground.

Let your son play the sport he loves, with his pals. If he excels great. If he does not, great. Once he enjoys it is all that matters.

I was relatively good at the sports I played. But my father turned up at all my games. It made me nervous. I scored hat-tricks and he still gave out to me. Got top scorer for a centre mid and me da told me I should learn to pass it. Playing GAA up front and he told me I should become more ruthless.

Eventually, I hated playing sport in front of him.

When my da went abroad for a week, I loved it. Me da is gone. I can play sport without him there. Excellent.

Let your kid appreciate sport without you. Let him enjoy it. Try and not get too involved. Don't show up for all histraining sessions and all his games.

Let him take to the game. If he shows himself as a class player, great. If he doesn't, great. Just let him enjoy it and step back.

areyawell

Its only under 12's for crying out loud. He probably doesn't gave a ****e with his father roaring at him on the sidelines. Its all about fun at that age and if the team is winning its an added bonus

matildajane

growth spurt might be an issue. Sometimes their coordination goes awol during a growth spurt. Re. parents on the sideline I am always amazed at how many drop and go. I go to 95% of my kids matches and I work fulltime.

harpsman

matildajane wrote: »

growth spurt might be an issue. Sometimes their coordination goes awol during a growth spurt. Re. parents on the sideline I am always amazed at how many drop and go. I go to 95% of my kids matches and I work fulltime.

Do kids want their parents at all their matches?

popebenny16

doirepol wrote: »

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

you're underage nightmare????

judging from the thread title and the bit i quoted up there I think - as someone who has a 12, 11 and a 7 year old playing, and as someone who has done underage coaching and refereeing - that you should take a little break. this isnt actually about your son, this is about you.

as i am sure you have noticed, lots of kids play away and then at the end of primary school or nearing it they lose the enthusiasim. that is one of the reasons why the go play system was brought in, in tipp they abolished compititions and made round robin blitzes instead. it still hasnt always worked, kids will still slack off, they lose that very young ability to buzz around at 90 miles an hour all day long at about the age your lad is at now. you have just got to accept it. this is not a nightmare, if it is, then you are the one causing it.

you have had 2 months of falling out with your 12 year old?? and your wife?? why?? well, if you are honest and step back, you know why.

if you think he is riding on your good name and should not be in the team, and he is a detriment, drop him. simple as, just so long as he knows why he is being dropped. all that is happening otherwise is you on the sideline seething at him every match and bringing it home with you. otherwise, ask someone else to coach the team. been there myself, done that, but i copped onto it very early. wont be long before he is into full on moany i hate you i never asked to be born teenage ****e, you will need all your credits then, stop flushing them down the toilet now for u-12 success that nobody will remember in two years apart from you.

equivariant

Jebus wept, this thread is scary.

The lad is 12 FFS!! And the OP is talking about HIS nightmare

ah sure !

I bring my kids to all their underage football games , somebody needs to cheer for them ! Too often i see parents ( 99 % of the time dads ) roaring on the side at everything that moves. Once my lad was marking a kid who's dad was on the sideline, he was like a lion in a cage that didn't eat in weeks ! the lad went to see his dad and told him to " shut the fxxxk off " , unreal ! And wait for it , these were 13 years old kids playing a challenge game on a nice sunday moning .
i very much enjoy bringing my boys to game but as it was said before they need to enjoy it as well and have fun. They win , great. They lose , that's fine too. Never stop praising them.

For the OP , may be your kid doesn't like playing anymore ? or maybe he is sick listening to you giving out at him everytime he misses a ball.

areyawell

I really think this guy is actually a troll!

doirepol

Thanks for the advice, the one thing that crops up in nearly all replies is that he has to enjoy it and I'd maybe lost sight of this.

keane2097

Didn't read the entire thread but if it hasn't already been suggested maybe the OP should consider avoiding being involved with the age group his son is playing at. Puts unnecessary pressure on both son to perform and parent to be overly hard on their child and there's pretty much no benefit tbh.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Best just to ease off him and let him do his own thing. Maybe he's just fed up of it at the moment. Even if he took year out of playing it what's the harm? He'll be in secondary school soon so he'll have plenty of chances to play there

WumBuster

It sounds like he just may not enjoy the sport all that much, for whatever reason. I know it might be hard for you to accept as you seem to be well invested into it but you just cant ram it down his throat. Try and give him constructive advice, gently, about his game, or ask him if there is any other sport, or activity he would like to take up and support him.

tonyduggan

doirepol wrote: »

In bad need of advice as I've spent the past 2 months falling out with my 12 year old son and my wife over underage football.

My son was one of the main players in the local team before this year however he has been going backwards to the point where even I can see he is only holding down a place on the team because I'm helping coach.
He is leaner and fitter than in previous years however he always seems to be content to run a few yards behind the forward he's marking and when he does get the ball he either panic's and gives a bad pass or will loose possession to weaker players in the tackle.
I've made the mistake of blaming the in-laws as they would have a very love everybody mindset and they view me as a muck savage who uses sport as a way of proving I'm the alpha male however I've noticed in training match's he will not tackle the smaller players and his mother was not impressed when I blamed her entire clan for this :eek:

Kick the shíte of the in-laws and set a good example

doirepol

tonyduggan wrote: »

Kick the shíte of the in-laws and set a good example

Much as I'd love to

kstand

Simple as this - he has to want it - enjoyment comes after that. If you dont wnat something enough you're not going work hard enough to get the enjoyment out of it. If his best pals are all playing and they wnat it big time then that rubs off on him. You cant make him wnat it - it has to come from within. You can give him all the training in the world but if he doesnt wnat to do it then you're wasting your time. He has plenty of time yet though - if he was say 15 or so even I'd say give it time. Some lads develop late.
Cant blame you thinking its the Mrs side. Sometimes I think it has to come from both sides of the house. A lot of great sports people thank their mother for the extra bit of drive and help they needed - its easy if things go against him to lean on the mother who just says "dont worry about it, it doesnt matter". If she was "dont worry, just work hard and it'll come better the next day" then maybe thats what he needs. You cant push him though.

BnB

nice_guy80 wrote: »

why not help coach a different team in the club and leave him to enjoy the football with his friends?

just an idea.

That's what I do. I got involved with underage when my own son started playing just to do my bit. I found myself getting frustrated with him. Treating him like my son and not just like another player. Nothing OTT but I'd see him messing instead of doing drills properly and I'd be pulling him up and telling him to cop on. But then when I stood back and looked at it, sure, all the other kids were doing the same.

So now I just basically avoid him down there. I always go down with him because, well I love it myself, but I'll help out with a different group from his, or if there are lots of helpers around, just stand around and talk shoite..!!!

He is really thriving in it. While he's no Joe Canning, the important thing is he just loves it.