What would you upgrade first?

merc230ce

I got me a s/h ('08) Trek 1.2 a few months ago for commuting and fitness, and the cycling bug is now biting (I did a 75km and a 140km the last two Saturdays).

So what does any bloke do when he finds a new hobby? You got it in one - he spends money on it!

I am not going to waste my time drooling over luscious carbon-limbed lovelies just yet*, but I wouldn't mind dropping a few quid on stuff that'll make a difference to what I've got.

My first thoughts are:
- New wheels. Cutting the rotating weight seems like it could make an appreciable difference.
- Bike fit. I had a lot of shoulder and arm pain by the end of the 140k. Could be that I wasn't used to it, could be that I'm set up wrong. Could of course be that the bike is the wrong size, but I don't think so.

So, your budget is 'a couple of hundred' - what's the first thing you'd go for?

*Huge lie. Absolutely massive. I will, of course, spend hours doing exactly that.

Lemag

It ain't very bling but if you're still running on the original tyres then replacing these with something better should make a significant difference to your ride. Continental GP4000s come widely recommended around these parts.

Muhozol

New lighter wheels sounds like best idea for me... As for you riding position I suggest fiddling a bit with your stem, handle bar and saddle position. Not very difficult in fact, I'm not a handy man type but adjusted everything myself and after doing about 500 miles in last 4 weeks very pleased with the results.
What kind of pedals are you using? Maybe clipless shoes and pedals might increase your speed a bit?

merc230ce

Muhozol wrote: »

New lighter wheels sounds like best idea for me... As for you riding position I suggest fiddling a bit with your stem, handle bar and saddle position. Not very difficult in fact, I'm not a handy man type but adjusted everything myself and after doing about 500 miles in last 4 weeks very pleased with the results.
What kind of pedals are you using? Maybe clipless shoes and pedals might increase your speed a bit?

Are there guides for what to adjust and why? I'm happy enough with the saddle height, but I'm just not convinced the reach to the handlebars is right at present.

And clipless shoes still scare the sh*t out of me! I don't know if it's the physical pain or extreme mortification that I dread more about falling off ;-)

But I did ask what you'd upgrade and I guess that's a pretty obvious one...

Gallant_JJ

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm a newbie and in a similar position, willing to upgrade. A lot of people seem to think the wheels first, would anyone be able to offer a very basic reasoning as to how new wheels improve performance or what one could expect from new wheels.

Cee-Jay-Cee

merc230ce wrote: »

And clipless shoes still scare the sh*t out of me! I don't know if it's the physical pain or extreme mortification that I dread more about falling off ;-)

But I did ask what you'd upgrade and I guess that's a pretty obvious one...

I was the same and even though I actually had the shoes and pedals I kept putting it off but finally but the bullet and fitted the pedals. I don't know why I just didn't donut in the first place. They make a big difference and within a few weeks you'll be well used to them and like me, wonder why you didn't move to them earlier.

I'd recommend you change to clipless before doing anything else.

macnab

if you upgrade your wheels to something like Shimano rs80's with light tyres and tubes you will knock about 850g off the bikes weight.

smacl

You basically upgrade everything bit by bit until there' none of the original bike left, and then suddenly realise you could have had that lovely carbon bike for half the money you've spent

I also started from a 2nd hand bike as a base. For me the upgrade list so far includes a pair of fulcrum 7 wheels with durano plus tyres, brooks B17 saddle, M520 SPD pedals, 13/28 cassette at the back for the hills, compact bars (FSA omega) and bar tape, longer stem, IXON IQ lights, and a biggish saddle bag. Most of the upgrades were done to improve comfort on longer spins, and to improve the fit of a bike that is slightly small for me. I've also replaced all the cables, brake shoes and pads.

merc230ce

Hmm... B17.... that's another good idea.

monkeypants

merc230ce wrote: »

And clipless shoes still scare the sh*t out of me! I don't know if it's the physical pain or extreme mortification that I dread more about falling off ;-)

It shouldn't be the pain, as you'll most likely be toppling over while doing precisely 0 mph/kph. Mortification, followed by some laughter is much more likely.

I started using SPDs back in January when I bought the bike. The pedals are adjustable for fit. One foot (right) is locked in tight, whereas the other is left loose. That's the foot I put down when I need to.

manwithaplan

For small money, tyres are a great upgrade but wait until your existing ones need replacement.

For more money, sort out your pedals and shoes.

Then get a bike fit done (no point in getting a bike fit done in a pair of runners).

For even more money, look at wheels. They should save a nice bit of weight, be more aero and spin for about three days at the lightest touch. They also have the advantage of being easily transferable to the shiny carbon frame you will inevitably buy. How much to spend is a tough call but be good to yourself.

I wouldn't be arsed doing anything else (apart from bar tape - you can't beat the feel of really nice bar tape).

rflynnr

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm a newbie and in a similar position, willing to upgrade. A lot of people seem to think the wheels first, would anyone be able to offer a very basic reasoning as to how new wheels improve performance or what one could expect from new wheels.

AFAIK there a a couple of reasons:

1. For reasons that involve physics I don't properly understand and therefore can't properly explain, the fact that a bike wheel rotates adds a disproportionate amount of weight to the bike when in movement. In other words, if you swap your existing wheelset for wheels that are 100g heavier, it'll feel like they're 300g heavier when cycling. The obverse is true for wheels that are lighter.

Obviously the lighter the total load on the road (you plus bike), the less effort is involved in moving. That said, it remains far cheaper to simply lose body weight (although if you're already at a healthy weight that may not be an option).

2. Better bearings. The difference between a cheap wheel and an expensive wheel will be obvious simply by spinning them with your hands: a cheap wheel will come to rest faster because the bearings aren't as good and thus there's more friction. This means that, all other things being equal, a more expensive wheel presents less resistance and is easier to cycle.

3. Better spokes. When cycling you want all your effort going into making the bike go forward. (This is why I'd generally think suspension is a bad idea outside MTB-ing.) Cheaper spokes are more likely to flex and permit some lateral movement in the wheel, effectively wasting energy.

4. Aerodynamics. Here, you're really looking at disc wheels (i.e. €1k plus) as used on time trial bikes which present less wind resistance. More expensive wheels are likely to have deeper rims and possibly bladed spokes which are moving in the direction of discs.

Given all this, my Ksyriums are the only major upgrade I've ever made to my bike (although it came with an Ultegra groupset so there wasn't a huge amount of scope for upgrading the other parts). This, along with a shift to Continental GP 4000s (from the admittedly slow Specialized Armadillos), more or less immediately added 1-3kms per hour to my average speed on a spin.

Finally though - the easiest thing to upgrade is yourself - and happily this is achieved simply by doing more cycling, although Joe Friel's "Cyclist's Training Handbook" offers very focused approaches to achieving specific performance improvements.

Gallant_JJ

rflynnr wrote: »

AFAIK there a a couple of reasons:

1. For reasons that involve physics I don't properly understand and therefore can't properly explain, the fact that a bike wheel rotates adds a disproportionate amount of weight to the bike when in movement. In other words, if you swap your existing wheelset for wheels that are 100g heavier, it'll feel like they're 300g heavier when cycling. The obverse is true for wheels that are lighter.

Obviously the lighter the total load on the road (you plus bike), the less effort is involved in moving. That said, it remains far cheaper to simply lose body weight (although if you're already at a healthy weight that may not be an option).

2. Better bearings. The difference between a cheap wheel and an expensive wheel will be obvious simply by spinning them with your hands: a cheap wheel will come to rest faster because the bearings aren't as good and thus there's more friction. This means that, all other things being equal, a more expensive wheel presents less resistance and is easier to cycle.

3. Better spokes. When cycling you want all your effort going into making the bike go forward. (This is why I'd generally think suspension is a bad idea outside MTB-ing.) Cheaper spokes are more likely to flex and permit some lateral movement in the wheel, effectively wasting energy.

4. Aerodynamics. Here, you're really looking at disc wheels (i.e. €1k plus) as used on time trial bikes which present less wind resistance. More expensive wheels are likely to have deeper rims and possibly bladed spokes which are moving in the direction of discs.

Given all this, my Ksyriums are the only major upgrade I've ever made to my bike (although it came with an Ultegra groupset so there wasn't a huge amount of scope for upgrading the other parts). This, along with a shift to Continental GP 4000s (from the admittedly slow Specialized Armadillos), more or less immediately added 1-3kms per hour to my average speed on a spin.

Finally though - the easiest thing to upgrade is yourself - and happily this is achieved simply by doing more cycling, although Joe Friel's "Cyclist's Training Handbook" offers very focused approaches to achieving specific performance improvements.

Many thanks, very thorough. No doubt the last bit is most applicable!

monkeypants

rflynnr wrote: »

1. For reasons that involve physics I don't properly understand and therefore can't properly explain, the fact that a bike wheel rotates adds a disproportionate amount of weight to the bike when in movement. In other words, if you swap your existing wheelset for wheels that are 100g heavier, it'll feel like they're 300g heavier when cycling. The obverse is true for wheels that are lighter.

So the faster you go, the heavier the bike gets?

rflynnr

monkeypants wrote: »

So the faster you go, the heavier the bike gets?

Eh...I refer the honourable gentleman to my initial comments relating to my ignorance.

rflynnr

Actually I suspect the answer to your question is to be found in here but I'm not exactly sure where.

MakeNine

After reading that article I probably won't bother upgrading my stock wheels until they wear out or are damaged.

Lumen

I own wheels that are light and supposedly fast (50mm 1400g deep section carbon) and wheels that are heavy and supposedly slow (Mavic Aksiums and Fulcrum 5s).

I have raced badly on both and found no correlation between the slowness or otherwise of my wheels and the degree to which I lose.

Objectively speaking it is IMPOSSIBLE for wheels to make 3kph/10%/whatever of difference to your speed, because they don't create that much drag in the first place, regardless of what terrain you throw them at. Even if you had wheels that weighed nothing and had zero drag, they still wouldn't make you 3kph faster.

I agree that tyres make a big difference. Bad tyres feel awful and tend to make me fall off at speed.

Surinam

Lumen wrote: »

I own wheels that are light and supposedly fast (50mm 1400g deep section carbon) and wheels that are heavy and supposedly slow (Mavic Aksiums and Fulcrum 5s).

I have raced badly on both and found no correlation between the slowness or otherwise of my wheels and the degree to which I lose.

Objectively speaking it is IMPOSSIBLE for wheels to make 3kph/10%/whatever of difference to your speed, because they don't create that much drag in the first place, regardless of what terrain you throw them at. Even if you had wheels that weighed nothing and had zero drag, they still wouldn't make you 3kph faster.

I agree that tyres make a big difference. Bad tyres feel awful and tend to make me fall off at speed.

I thought Fulcrum 5's were well regarded? After reading things on here I think I'll buy a pair of good tyres (gp4000s) and postpone any purchases of wheels.

Lumen

Surinam wrote: »

I thought Fulcrum 5's were well regarded? After reading things on here I think I'll buy a pair of good tyres (gp4000s) and postpone any purchases of wheels.

There's nothing particularly wrong with Fulcrum 5s (although I don't like the way the spokes enter the front hub), I just used them as an example of a fairly traditional non-aerodynamic non-weight-weenie wheel.

rflynnr

Lumen wrote: »

I own wheels that are light and supposedly fast (50mm 1400g deep section carbon) and wheels that are heavy and supposedly slow (Mavic Aksiums and Fulcrum 5s).

I have raced badly on both and found no correlation between the slowness or otherwise of my wheels and the degree to which I lose.

Objectively speaking it is IMPOSSIBLE for wheels to make 3kph/10%/whatever of difference to your speed, because they don't create that much drag in the first place, regardless of what terrain you throw them at. Even if you had wheels that weighed nothing and had zero drag, they still wouldn't make you 3kph faster.

I agree that tyres make a big difference. Bad tyres feel awful and tend to make me fall off at speed.

It'll be the tyres so. Mind you, I gather it's not about the bike at all, at all...

Miklos

Definitely get some clipless pedals and shoes, once you go 'clack' you never go back!

monkeypants

So what are the pros and cons to using deep rims over regular rims?

kincsem

My greatest increase in speed was getting a track pump and pumping the tyres up to the max on the tyre sidewall. I immediately reduced a 1h 55m trip to 1h 40m.

Unregistered.

+1 on the bike shoes!

Muhozol

merc230ce wrote: »

Are there guides for what to adjust and why? I'm happy enough with the saddle height, but I'm just not convinced the reach to the handlebars is right at present.

And clipless shoes still scare the sh*t out of me! I don't know if it's the physical pain or extreme mortification that I dread more about falling off ;-)

But I did ask what you'd upgrade and I guess that's a pretty obvious one...

No need to be scared of them clipless pedals, for me falling on a bike is a pretty natural process and everyone should experience it ;-) NOT!
Just kidding, I only found those pedals bit dodgy in commuting situations and wouldn't recommend them for town rides, any other situation they're actually very safe and clipping in and out is easier than you could imagine.
As for saddle and handle bar adjustments I got a second hand Cannondale Six13 which was actually raced by a guy who had built it so the position on the bike was too agressive for my taste, I needed something more relaxed for longer spins. I simply turned the stem upside down, it was pointing down originally, and then simply pulled the horns towards me for better grip on brakes and gears. Secondly I pushed saddle slightly forward and lowered it a bit. You might take a look at some handlebar stems because they differ in angle from 5 to 17 degrees or so and there're also adjustable once like this one http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39262 with lots of room for manoeuvre.

merc230ce

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I reckon I'll just have to man up and go clipless!
Can anyone provide a lInk to a good guide to adjusting bars, saddle etc. for fit? Not so much the 'how' as 'how do I know when it's right?'

rflynnr

monkeypants wrote: »

So what are the pros and cons to using deep rims over regular rims?

I think for most mere mortals there's little to be gained by going for (really) deep rims unless you're contemplating time-trialling. They're expensive and they also mean having to buy tubes with really long valves which can be difficult to immediately source in your local bike shop.

High Nellie

smacl wrote: »

You basically upgrade everything bit by bit until there' none of the original bike left, and then suddenly realise you could have had that lovely carbon bike for half the money you've spent

That's about the size of it really.
If you are very skinny then you can talk about lighter wheels to take of a few gramms, etc. A lot of overweight guys spend mega-bucks on gear that saves the weight of half a bottle of water.
If you are going fast, you can talk about aerodynamics to get that little extra edge, etc.
You have to ride for a while for you body to make basic adjustements, so you will get a few aches and pains no matter how 'comfortable' or 'fitted' the bike is, so wait until those adaptations take place.
If you do have the urge to spend money, spend it on good quality cycling clothing - this will not be wasted when you eventually buy the bike you want.