CQA Simmental Bull

pault153

have a cow due out of this bull beginning of october, she's a big 2nd calf chairlais cow. Does he calf handy enough and also does he bring much time? looking at his figures says 3days, what does this mean?

pakalasa

The norm is 286, as far as I know. So CQA at +2.2 would be 288 days.
6% calving diff, so around normal for a Simmental.

Bodacious

This CQA has good figures, wide at hips etc but not over tall. KFY seems a bigger bull... ging to order few straws in to put on best cows to get a few good heifers.. in your opinions lads.. which bull (any company) is an out and out producer of big wide growthy sim daughters with milk? IS4?! APZ?! Thanks

foxfield21

KFY for me all day long. Size, milk, calving, femininity, markings, he has the lot in my opinion.. Plus he is proven now and that counts for a lot against the young pretenders until their reliability climbs.

Bodacious

foxfield21 wrote: »

KFY for me all day long. Size, milk, calving, femininity, markings, he has the lot in my opinion.. Plus he is proven now and that counts for a lot against the young pretenders until their reliability climbs.

good man foxfield .. im thinking the same but we all munster/progressive around here, so saw no calves out of him, who does he stand with!?

foxfield21

Eurogene 12 euro per straw, value for money!

bogman_bass

Bodacious wrote: »

This CQA has good figures, wide at hips etc but not over tall. KFY seems a bigger bull... ging to order few straws in to put on best cows to get a few good heifers.. in your opinions lads.. which bull (any company) is an out and out producer of big wide growthy sim daughters with milk? IS4?! APZ?! Thanks

IS$ would fit the bill if you can get the straws. APZ wont do that job. he is more like a blue; small and muscley

Bizzum

foxfield21 wrote: »

KFY for me all day long. Size, milk, calving, femininity, markings, he has the lot in my opinion.. Plus he is proven now and that counts for a lot against the young pretenders until their reliability climbs.

Has his daughters the milk though? I'm not so sure.

Bigbird1

Was chatting a pedigree breeder from the north at a sale in roscommon a year or two ago, he told me that kfy wasn't great for milk,he also said that simmentals are not near as milky as they once were!

redzerologhlen

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Was chatting a pedigree breeder from the north at a sale in roscommon a year or two ago, he told me that kfy wasn't great for milk,he also said that simmentals are not near as milky as they once were!

To be honest there was some of the older type sim's too milky for suckling in my opinion, going back 10 years ago we had 55 sim cows here and a lot of them were a nuisance with big udders which calfs couldnt suck and for getting mastitis because the calves couldnt keep them sucked. They used to rear smashing charolais though. I had much the same conversation a few years ago with a well known Saler breeder, I asked him about various different bulls in A.I but apparently his own were the only ones in the country bred to have milk :rolleyes:

Bodacious

foxfield21 wrote: »

Eurogene 12 euro per straw, value for money!

Was onto dovea today for Kilmoney Bruce and BBQ, rang eurogene and KFY is gone upstairs and no straws for sale, I kinda thought that considering he such a great bull but didn't feature in 12/13 catalogue ... Back to the drawing board... What is the alternative big wide at the hips, milky daughters ... Not APZ as Bog says, Is4 maybe ? Any other can be any Ai company ?

pakalasa

bogman_bass wrote: »

IS$ would fit the bill if you can get the straws. APZ wont do that job. he is more like a blue; small and muscley

What good is a small muscley simmental bull? Ok, if his heifers calve ok, I suppose.

Andy Gray

KFY bred good females with milk. Straws are gone though.

Curaheen Vio (CQA) is UNREAL!! Easy calving, docile, long, great legs and feet. Bulls are long wide and very heavy. Females are spectacular. Only thing left to prove for this bull is whether he'll have milk or not. €34 in the cow from Eurogene. Worth every penny if you want good cattle.

Seaview Tommy (SEV) is breeding great heifers with size and milk. Bulls are heavy but maybe a bit plain. Available from Dovea. Temperament might be an issue here so don't use on wild or wicked cows.

Apostle (APZ) is fine bull. Very easy calving. Calves born > 40 Kgs birth weight. Calves really take off after about a month. From strong maternal breeding in Canada. Available from NCBC.

Derough Samual (DRU) in Dovea is a super all round bull. Big powerful females with milk, and extremely heavy bulls with a huge killout.

Not biased towards Simmental but ye were only talking about them

Andy Gray

And the last people to be taking advice on bulls from are pedigree breeders. 9 times outta 10 if they're knocking a bull it's because they don't like the breeder or the bull is in competition with something they bred themselves. Commercial suckler farmers that use a lot of AI and breed good cattle will tell you straight up whether a bull is good or bad. No bull****.

pakalasa

As they say, you don't ask the barber if you need a haircut.

Andy Gray

Great analogy Whoever told that bigbird that KFY females have no milk either hasn't a clue or has it in for the bull or breeder. He's 5 star for milk within and across breed on the ICBF figures with 92% reliability. Anything over 90% reliability is proven.

Bigbird1

Andy Gray wrote: »

Great analogy Whoever told that bigbird that KFY females have no milk either hasn't a clue or has it in for the bull or breeder. He's 5 star for milk within and across breed on the ICBF figures with 92% reliability. Anything over 90% reliability is proven.

Ya the guy just said he was a top bull,but wouldn't do much for milk, so i dont know after that i wouldn't be too well up with the sims,Andy gray what bulls are you using yourself of each breed that you find are breeding well?..dovea have a good selection this year,use mainly charolais myself

pakalasa

I just had a look through the 2013 Dovea catalogue. Great choice of simmental bulls compared to NCBC.
The new bull Cloondroon Calling, QCD is by Curaheen Vio.

Andy Gray

Well bigbird. I have 5 heifers to put in calf this year. 3 x Lims out of TON, EPN and CWI and 2 x Sims out of SEV and IS4. I will put HUZ in the three Lims. He's an old simmental that i picked up a few straws from in Dovea. The two Sims will be bulled probably to HCA. Easy calving and milk. Anybody that's thinking of using OZS on heifers to calf at 2 years should think again. He is too hard calving for this. He is no problem on cows but just a bit too strong for heifers.

On the cows i'll be using KFY and CQA simmentals. In limos i'll be using OZS and I might get a few ONI straws from the Lim Society. They're expensive but he's meant to breed outstanding females. I managed to get my hands on a few CF61 straws and i might put one on a really good Malibu cow. She bred a show calf off 61 last year so might try for another one.

I've been going for 100% maternal over the last few breeding seasons as I want to build my cow numbers. By doing this every heifer calf is suitable for breeding. I like to indulge in the odd show calf as well. I pick my cows for this job though as 1 wrong straw in an unsuitable cow can spell disaster!!

Andy Gray

pakalasa wrote: »

I just had a look through the 2013 Dovea catalogue. Great choice of simmental bulls compared to NCBC.
The new bull Cloondroon Calling, QCD is by Curaheen Vio.

Yeah it's a very strong catalogue. Only thing it lacks is a proven easy calving Limo bull. They're pushing RHF for easy calving but his cattle are wild. They have a few new bulls that look well but test bulls, no matter how easy the back pedigree suggests, are not for heifers.

Pat the lad

Andy Gray wrote: »

I've been going for 100% maternal over the last few breeding seasons as I want to build my cow numbers. By doing this every heifer calf is suitable for breeding. I!!

Hi Andy

when you went 100% maternal bulls did you notice much of a drop off in the quality of your male animals???

Bigbird1

Andy Gray wrote: »

Well bigbird. I have 5 heifers to put in calf this year. 3 x Lims out of TON, EPN and CWI and 2 x Sims out of SEV and IS4. I will put HUZ in the three Lims. He's an old simmental that i picked up a few straws from in Dovea. The two Sims will be bulled probably to HCA. Easy calving and milk. Anybody that's thinking of using OZS on heifers to calf at 2 years should think again. He is too hard calving for this. He is no problem on cows but just a bit too strong for heifers.

On the cows i'll be using KFY and CQA simmentals. In limos i'll be using OZS and I might get a few ONI straws from the Lim Society. They're expensive but he's meant to breed outstanding females. I managed to get my hands on a few CF61 straws and i might put one on a really good Malibu cow. She bred a show calf off 61 last year so might try for another one.

I've been going for 100% maternal over the last few breeding seasons as I want to build my cow numbers. By doing this every heifer calf is suitable for breeding. I like to indulge in the odd show calf as well. I pick my cows for this job though as 1 wrong straw in an unsuitable cow can spell disaster!!

Cheers for that are TON straws still available do you know?
In my breeding for replacements i got nearly all bull calves,mainly off DRU,will try CQA now an see how it goes,i have some Panda straws in the flask but i see his icbf figures are well down for terminal traits,he seems still ok for maternal tho,Andy gray wat sires are you using to breed these show type calves,did you sell that CF61xMalibu calf yet?

Andy Gray

Pat the lad wrote: »

Hi Andy

when you went 100% maternal bulls did you notice much of a drop off in the quality of your male animals???

I lost a bit of muscle but my weaning weights actually improved. This is primarily own to using a lot of simmental and my cows having plenty of milk. I have no allegiance whatsoever to simmental but their weight gain is phenomenal. I have been selling weanlings the last 5 years and the fancy ones have done well but the heavier ones with a bit less muscle aren't selling for enough. I'm going to look at the economics of keeping my bull calves and building them up to ad lib ration at 10 months. With the weaning weights I've been getting I would hope to get bulls to approx 350 Kgs carcass weight at 12-13 months. This would mean a live weight of 600 Kgs. From doing some basic sums with current ration and beef prices I would be about €300 per head better off than selling as weanlings.

Andy Gray

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Cheers for that are TON straws still available do you know?
In my breeding for replacements i got nearly all bull calves,mainly off DRU,will try CQA now an see how it goes,i have some Panda straws in the flask but i see his icbf figures are well down for terminal traits,he seems still ok for maternal tho,Andy gray wat sires are you using to breed these show type calves,did you sell that CF61xMalibu calf yet?

I only got a few TON straw as my AI man is 95% dairy cows and he had a few straws in the tank with years. They won't have them in the stock but a few AI men might have them in their tanks. CQA is the business. I would use him on milky cows though as his breeding wouldn't be bursting with milk. Panda are super. Have three off him so far and as luck would have it, only one came as a heifer. Have 3 more due to him so hopefully get heifers. One of the bull calves is unreal. Mightn't be muscley enough for showing but his topline and front shoulder is powerful. I'd say he'll breed huge powerful heifers. Don't use him on heifers though as calves are quite big and are long gestation.

CF61 was great. His calves are muscley but they have style as well. Had an ERE calf as well that was probably more muscled but was just a bit rough looking. I sold both calves at a weanling show and sale. CF61 off a MBU cow won the Charolais class and was reserve champion. 435 Kgs made €1340.
ERE off a MWN cow was 3rd overall. 465 Kgs made €1280. Don't be fooled though. Both these calves took a fair pull to get out of the cows so these fancy calves do come with a health warning. The new Charolais LGL in NCBC is breeding fantastic stuff by all accounts. Not hard calving. Muscle and style.
There is a blue in the NCBC catalogue also called Adajio AJY. Doesn't look to be easy calving but on a mature cow should be ok.
A lot depends on the cow. Some bulls work well on some cows and others not so well.

Bigbird1

I look for forward to getting CQA and Panda into a few cows soon so..

On the terminal side of things im nearly all out of BYU,ROX and KIB straws.

In dovea im looking at the charolais FGG and FYB,they look decent bulls,also might try the blue bull germinal. Adajio from pg is breeding very well but is leaving some calves a bit short! The new simmental in dovea bought in England should breed decent females.

Bodacious

Bigbird1 wrote: »

I look for forward to getting CQA and Panda into a few cows soon so..

On the terminal side of things im nearly all out of BYU,ROX and KIB straws.

In dovea im looking at the charolais FGG and FYB,they look decent bulls,also might try the blue bull germinal. Adajio from pg is breeding very well but is leaving some calves a bit short! The new simmental in dovea bought in England should breed decent females.

What's the new bulls name ? Lady on phone was on about a bull called Baldwin ?!

Bigbird1

The new sim in dovea is called Islavale cracker 11,i think Baldwin is a new sim bull eurogene have.