Am I being unreasonable?

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

I will keep this short and hopefully some of ye can help. I am living with my boyfriend, he has a 12 year old daughter. We are looking ahead to next summer and talking about a holiday for the three of us, that's grand. The only thing that is bothering me is that is just assumed I would pay for half his daughter's flight etc. Now I have no problem splitting everything when we are there i.e. eating out, shopping etc but it is really niggling at me that he expects me to pay.

I haven't said anything yet as we just talked about it over the weekend.

I'd appreciate any advice,

Thanks

Toast4532

Are you together long? How expensive is the holiday? If it is very expensive I'd agree with you not paying as she isn't your daughter.

If it really bothers you, you should say it to him, definitely, she is his daughter and he should be paying for her, but maybe he see's you three as a family unit so automatically assumed that you'd split everything.

If it was the other way around and she was your daughter, would you expect him to pay half for her or would you pay the full amount yourself? Would he be happy about you assuming he'd be paying half without you both discussed it before making decision/assumptions?

LegacyUser

I guess it depends on your relationship OP, how long you've been together, how serious you are, how long ye've been living together. If it's a new relationship then my gut reaction is yeah, he's being verrry cheeky and inconsiderate imho.

If on the other hand, you're at the point where you're in a long term committed relationship, then I'd imagine he hopes you view his child as part and parcel of a relationship with him. That you both are part of his life, a family of sorts, I mean if ye were to get married she'd no longer be "his" daughter she'd be "your" stepchild and this sort of stuff would be expected, so if that is where the relationship is headed, in that case, I can understand his reasoning.

So I guess I can see both sides of the fence OP, it's difficult to say who's right or wrong without specifics. Either way if it really bothers you you should sit down and have a chat with him about his expectation with regards the relationship between you and his daughter.

All the best OP.

Daisy M

Is he looking at the total cost of the holiday and just covering half? He probably sees you all as a family and is not thinking.

Its fantastic that you are automatically including her in your holiday, that is a rare thing.
Have a chat with him and see how he is reading the situation, maybe he just sees all the money you have as both of yours even though you keep separate accounts.

Piliger

Hi OP.

You chose to live with a guy who has a child, so I think he is absolutely right - you are now a family with all that that brings. You can't just cherry pick what you want out the situation and behave like an outsider when it suits. This may be his daughter but you are now IN the family.

Meauldsegosha

OP you and your boyfriend are living together so presumably spiltting the rent and bills. To me this is just another bill so why wouldn't you spilt it.

Ellsbells

How much is it going to cost you? Is money an issue between you in general?

StillWaters

I think you are right, this is not your bill.

I speak as a single parent in a relationship, I would never expect my partner to pay for something like this, meals out, the odd treat yes, but not towards holidays, clothes etc. Nor would I expect my ex's partner to pay towards this.

Ultimatley she is our financial, legal and moral responsibility. We pay for her holidays, clothing, education, healthcare etc, absolutely not our partners. I'm a bit shocked that he expects this, you need to have a chat OP!

Ellsbells

I agree but if it's €100 and is balanced out between them over the year then I would not worry.

LittleBook

I'm in the same situation as StillWaters and I agree, my daughter is mine and her father's responsibility and we pay for her holidays, not my partner.

ash23

I think if I were living with someone I would think it ok to assume we would split the bills, including those relating to my child.

I'd hate to be in a relationship where she was differentiated from any children we may have together so I would start as I mean to continue. I wouldn't like for 5 years down the road him to turn to me and say that he would split the cost of a holiday for me and our 2 kids and I could pay for my own child.

Plus, from pricing holidays, the child doesn't generally cost a huge amount to bring.

If you're not comfortable with it then say it and don't pay for her. But personally, I'd be thinking longer terms and about the precedent you may be setting.

Gooner111

I think you should talk to your partner. Everyone has different views on what is / what is not acceptable when it comes to things like this so hopefully he doesn't take it the wrong way and sees where you are coming from. Just curious but what if the situation was turned around... would you expect him to pay for half of a family holiday / what would you think if he came to you and said he thinks he should just pay his own share?????

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

Thank you all for your replies. I will try answer some of your questions. We are together 2 years, we are living together. We have separate accounts and pay half mortgage, bills etc. He was recently out of work for a while and I paid for everything, I have a decent paying job but it was a struggle so money has been an issue at times. He is back in employment and things have gone back to normal re finance. I don't believe in having a joint account, neither does he therefore whatever we have that is extra is our own, he buys what he wants and I buy what I want.

The holiday would be to Greece so we are talking a decent sum of money. A few of you have asked how would I feel if situation was reversed and I can hand on heart say I would not even dare ask him to pay for my child. Money was always tight when I was growing up so our parents taught us to me very wise financially. I am very, and always have been, financially independent. I would not expect anyone to pay for me to do anything. I have a clear view on that.

The child went to London this summer with her mother and her partner and I know that her mother paid for her.

I have to respectfully disagree with those who said that I pay half bills etc so this is the same thing. It is not. I am happy to pay for meals etc while there but I think half flights etc is a bit much. I am not her parent, therefore not financially responsible. Don't get me wrong I never go into town withoug picking her up clothes, books or something small but this is different.

I would not expect someone else to pay for my child no matter what the nature of our relationship.

gagiteebo

Piliger wrote: »

Hi OP.

You chose to live with a guy who has a child, so I think he is absolutely right - you are now a family with all that that brings. You can't just cherry pick what you want out the situation and behave like an outsider when it suits. This may be his daughter but you are now IN the family.

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. I was in a similiar situation, I was living with a guy, now married to, who had a 12 year old. We went abroad on holidays during first few years and he paid for her and never assumed I would and rightly so. I have a great relationship with her and I am IN the family but she was not my financial responsibility. OP isn't cherry picking what suits her. It is tough enough entering into a relationship with someone who has a child without this nonsense of being made to feel guilty that she doesn't want to pay for the girl's holiday.

Now that I have my own children my opinion has not changed.

Piliger

ash23 wrote: »

I think if I were living with someone I would think it ok to assume we would split the bills, including those relating to my child.

I'd hate to be in a relationship where she was differentiated from any children we may have together so I would start as I mean to continue. I wouldn't like for 5 years down the road him to turn to me and say that he would split the cost of a holiday for me and our 2 kids and I could pay for my own child.

Absolutely right. People need to decide if they are in or out of a family setup and staying semi detached on the basis of money is such a materialistic and petty way to be. God help a child living in those situations where they realise that one parent is paying and the other is so tight with their money that they withhold it from that child. I can hardly imagine a more mean spirited setup.

LegacyUser

I say pay it :-)

I was in the same situation as you and I didn't pay and I regret it so much now I'm not with them any more.

When you meet someone with kids from before they met you, you have to realise that you are taking on a package, not just one person.

Ellsbells

It's ridiculous to say that because you are living with someone with a kid they you should pay for them.

ash23

What if there were more children?

Would it be ridiculous if a man turned to his wife and said he'd pay for half their childrens christmas presents, birthday presents, holidays, food but that she could sort out the cost of the child from her own relationship herself? Ot vice versa with the sexes reversed.

I don't know, it just doesn't sit well with me.

I wouldn't ever want someone marking my child as the odd one out in the family and I do think the OP needs to consider the long term element of it. To say now that she isn't willing to split any costs of his existing child isn't really conducive to integrating the child into their new family.

Maybe she never intends to have kids with him which would alter my view slightly because it's the element of exclusion and differentiation that I take issue with to be honest. Marking out one child in the family as different isn't fair or practical.

gagiteebo

Piliger wrote: »

Absolutely right. People need to decide if they are in or out of a family setup and staying semi detached on the basis of money is such a materialistic and petty way to be. God help a child living in those situations where they realise that one parent is paying and the other is so tight with their money that they withhold it from that child. I can hardly imagine a more mean spirited setup.

How dare you! Having been in the same situation as the OP I take extreme offence to this 'God help the child' attitude. OP specifically says she has no problem sharing everything else and often buys the child things when in town and considers teh child in everything, this shows her to be a very thoughful person. Where are you getiing that she is tight? I certainly wasn't tight with my step daughter, not being funny but she adores me and I her but there are responsibilities that are the child's parents. I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for my children.

Mean spirited set up for the child? This coming from a man who told a girl on another thread who knowingly entered into an affair with a married man with 2 small children that she was completely blameless and had done nothing wrong!

ash23

gagaiteboo, now that you and your husband have children together, do you still insist he pays for his child and you both pay for your own children?
Just curious as to how it works now.

gagiteebo

ash23 wrote: »

What if there were more children?

Would it be ridiculous if a man turned to his wife and said he'd pay for half their childrens christmas presents, birthday presents, holidays, food but that she could sort out the cost of the child from her own relationship herself? Ot vice versa with the sexes reversed.

I don't know, it just doesn't sit well with me.

I wouldn't ever want someone marking my child as the odd one out in the family and I do think the OP needs to consider the long term element of it. To say now that she isn't willing to split any costs of his existing child isn't really conducive to integrating the child into their new family.

Maybe she never intends to have kids with him which would alter my view slightly because it's the element of exclusion and differentiation that I take issue with to be honest. Marking out one child in the family as different isn't fair or practical.

She is hardly marking the child as the odd one out. I know of more blended families where the children wouldn't be brought on holiday etc than I care to think about.

I don't think she is excluding the child at all. She said she is willingly to pay for half meals, shopping etc just not the expensive flights. My children are solely my and their father's responsibility when it comes to providing for them in all areas of their life and I wouldn't dare expect anyone else to do so not matter who they were.

It is also the fact it was just assumed she would pay. I'd have an issue with that.

gagiteebo

ash23 wrote: »

gagaiteboo, now that you and your husband have children together, do you still insist he pays for his child and you both pay for your own children?
Just curious as to how it works now.

My step daughter is an adult now so it doesn't really affect us as much as it would if she were a child.

Just to clear something up, it was never a case I didn't contribute financially to her life, that is impossible but the major things were paid for by her parents and that was the way it was. I didn't 'insist' on anything. We were both on the same wave length, he didn't expect me to pay for anything big so it was never an issue.

ash23

gagiteebo wrote: »

My step daughter is an adult now so it doesn't really affect us as much as it would if she were a child.

Just to clear something up, it was never a case I didn't contribute financially to her life, that is impossible but the major things were paid for by her parents and that was the way it was. I didn't 'insist' on anything. We were both on the same wave length, he didn't expect me to pay for anything big so it was never an issue.

gagiteebo wrote: »

She is hardly marking the child as the odd one out. I know of more blended families where the children wouldn't be brought on holiday etc than I care to think about.

I don't think she is excluding the child at all. She said she is willingly to pay for half meals, shopping etc just not the expensive flights. My children are solely my and their father's responsibility when it comes to providing for them in all areas of their life and I wouldn't dare expect anyone else to do so not matter who they were.

It is also the fact it was just assumed she would pay. I'd have an issue with that.

Personally I just wouldn't want my daughter finding out that I had to pay for her holiday while my new partner went halves on the other kids. I don't know, it just seems so wrong to start up with that "she's yours, you pay for her" thing. Truthfully, I wouldn't be into living like that. But then again I wouldn't be into a formal 50/50, separate bank accounts thing either where everyone keeps their "own" money.

Each to their own. OP seems fairly adamant she is right so she should say it to her OH and see what he says. But he may be the type who thinks that if they are doing the 50/50 thing, then that should be for everything. Not just the mundane stuff where the % for his child can't be calculated.

Ellsbells

But there are no more kids ash so we are dealing with her situation now. I personally would pay but would not like the assumption from him that I had to

ash23

Ellsbells wrote: »

But there are no more kids ash so we are dealing with her situation now. I personally would pay but would not like the assumption from him that I had to

Yes we are, but the precedent will be set based on what she does now.
So if she is saying to him that she doesn't want to cover the child's expenses now, then that is how it will be from here on in. And if she wants to have kids with him, that would be creating a divide in the family further down the road.
That is something she needs to think about.
It might not be the here and now but it's not to be dismissed either.

Meauldsegosha

Bainnesiopamilsean wrote: »

I have to respectfully disagree with those who said that I pay half bills etc so this is the same thing. It is not. I am happy to pay for meals etc while there but I think half flights etc is a bit much. I am not her parent, therefore not financially responsible. Don't get me wrong I never go into town withoug picking her up clothes, books or something small but this is different.

I would not expect someone else to pay for my child no matter what the nature of our relationship.

So what is the situation with accommadation? Are you paying 1/3 and your partner paying 2/3 or are you spiltting that 50/50. If yes then how is that any different from spiltting the cost of the flights?

Mervenut

I think we need to step back a minute here, before we start talking about "precedents" etc. it may well be he just hasn't thought it through and made an "unthinking assumption" about the flight costs.

I would suggest that the OP has a chat about the situation and respectfully suggest that she is uncomfortable with splitting the cost, she is not the child's mother, neither has she "married" the child's father, they are living together and it seems not that long, so like many of these thing it needs to discussed, negotiated, and probably re-negotiated as the relationship changes, commitment to the relationship increases etc. The child has 2 parents who presumably are covering her "child support" costs, so I don't think the OP is obliged to cover this cost, she is happy to cover meals, etc. which I think that is fair. The child's mum should be covering 50% of the cost unless the OP's BF has negotiated something otherwise with the mum, in my view.

Piliger

ash23 wrote: »

Personally I just wouldn't want my daughter finding out that I had to pay for her holiday while my new partner went halves on the other kids. I don't know, it just seems so wrong to start up with that "she's yours, you pay for her" thing. Truthfully, I wouldn't be into living like that.

I agree. what a ghastly thing for a child to find out. It's all money money money as far as I can see. Not a very loving partnership and more like a business deal where the kids are 'overheads' and 'liabilities'. Ghastly.

Ickle Magoo

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solerina

Just thought I would add my two cents worth.....just because you live together doesnt mean you shoudl have to pay half of the cost of his daughters holiday....he is taking advantage by even expecting it....she is his child he should pay for her...its enough that your happy for her to accompany ye on holiday.

fungun

I think this is a little tricky. In general I agree with the OP that the financial responsibility for the child lies with their natural parents.

But lets look for a sec. She went to London with the mother and the mother paid. Now she is going to Greece with the father, so from their 'couple' point of view it probably makes sense that he pays for this. He may well then have just thought of you as a couple whereby all your expenses are shared and assumed you would pay half - not out of badness, but just because he thinks of your and his finances as joint. Thats sometimes the problem with family, assumptions are made.

I wouldnt think any more about it because thinking about it is probably making you annoyed and he probably didnt mean it like that- if you have decent communication, Id just say it to him that you think either he (or he and his ex) should cover that cost. If you have more ready cash than he though (due to unemployment or whatever), he may just be assuming/hoping you will dig him out on this one

strandroad

I think it may be a good moment for you OP to assess where your relationship is with regard to child responsibilities.

If you were only dating, not living together etc. it would be logical that you do not contribute to his child upbringing. If you were married or fully committed as a family with the girl being your stepdaughter, the money would be coming from your household money so technically from both of you. You seem to be somewhere in between - you live together, but have no household budget and the girl is not your stepdaughter.

I think it's worth analysing a bit more as to where you are and where you want to be, as you are now straddling two worlds. Where do you see yourself and where does your partner see you in this family setup? Do you plan to have children of your own and what would be the relation between their status and that of the girl, how will you treat them in comparison? If you agree to split holiday costs now, will you be asked to contribute to her school fees, healthcare etc?

Gooner111

OP are you close to your family?? Imagine if there was a wedding/birthday on that was down the country or abroad. Would you expect him to pay half the costs of attending that????

I am not suggesting you pay half the fare. It shouldn't be expected or assumed and without talking to him you won't know if he just did it thoughtlessly or actually expected you to pay.

So talk to your partner and gently explain your position since it is something that is bothering you.

Glendambo

ash23 wrote: »

Personally I just wouldn't want my daughter finding out that I had to pay for her holiday while my new partner went halves on the other kids. I don't know, it just seems so wrong to start up with that "she's yours, you pay for her" thing. Truthfully, I wouldn't be into living like that. But then again I wouldn't be into a formal 50/50, separate bank accounts thing either where everyone keeps their "own" money.

Each to their own. OP seems fairly adamant she is right so she should say it to her OH and see what he says. But he may be the type who thinks that if they are doing the 50/50 thing, then that should be for everything. Not just the mundane stuff where the % for his child can't be calculated.

Ash, with all due respect, you seem to be unable to see past your own situation. Does your child's father contribute financially? If not, then your circumstance is not in any way similar to the OP's situation.

This child has a mother and a father and they should be responsible for big expenses like holidays, school costs etc. If the OP and her partner do have children down then line this won't make this little girl's mother suddenly irrelevant. Her mother will still be expected to contribute to the raising of her child financially and why shouldn't that include holidays?

Moving in with someone who has a child doesn't make you responsible for 50% of that child's costs. Particularly when there is a co-parent very much on the scene.

ash23

Glendambo wrote: »

Ash, with all due respect, you seem to be unable to see past your own situation. Does your child's father contribute financially? If not, then your circumstance is not in any way similar to the OP's situation.

I can only give my perspective and how I would feel. I am not the OP. Opinions are formed based on our own lives and experiences. I can only give mine. Nobody has to agree.

Do you have a stepchild? Have you been in the OPs exact situation? If not then by your own admission your circumstances are not in any way similar to the OP and your advice is invalid as is most advice posted on the internet.

Glendambo

ash23 wrote: »

I can only give my perspective and how I would feel. I am not the OP. Opinions are formed based on our own lives and experiences. I can only give mine. Nobody has to agree.

Do you have a stepchild? Have you been in the OPs exact situation? If not then by your own admission your circumstances are not in any way similar to the OP and your advice is invalid as is most advice posted on the internet.

Again, with all due respect, I am not the one who is blinded by my own circumstances and am in a position where I can look at both sides. As it happens, my sister has a child and so does her partner. Both co-parents are very much around and contribute to their children's upbringing, as they should. The fact that my sister and her partner are living together doesn't suddenly remove the need for the children's biological parents. They haven't become this isolated family unit where all expenses must be paid for by those living in the house. Such nonsense.

OP, you should speak to your partner and explain to him that you feel that big expenses for the child should be paid for by her parents. Doing this doesn't make you mean or tight.

username123

A slightly different situation but myself and my husband often bring his father (my father in law) out for meals, theatre etc... and we pay for him. I would never ever say (or even think) 'its your father, you pay'.

As a couple we split bills. There is no his money or my money, its our money. We dont have a joint account incidentally, we simply share whatever expenses come up.

Is that not what living together as a family unit is about?

P. Breathnach

OP, I think you have your answer: some people think that it is appropriate that you pay towards bringing the child on holidays with you, and some don't. And that's exactly what you have happening in your household: you think one thing, and your partner thinks the other.

So I would suggest that it is not a matter of either you or your partner being unreasonable. It's a matter of making different assumptions, with there being no simple right or wrong answer. I think you need to have a conversation about this. Just be careful that you don't get into difficulty through seeming to reject the child. Your partner is probably assuming that you are functioning pretty well as a family unit, something which is in many ways a big affirmation of your relationship.

A2LUE42

To look at this from another perspective.
'If his ex and her new partner decided to go on holidays with the child, would you be happy if your partner was presented a bill for 50% of the child's costs for the holiday', or would you expect his ex and her partner to be responsible for that and you and your partner to be responsible for the costs of any 'family' holidays that you have.

I was slow to post on this as it seems a very emotive subject and without knowing how the OP and her partner organise their finances it is very hard to give any reasoned advice, other than they should discuss it so that they are both happy with the situation.

Glendambo

username123 wrote: »

A slightly different situation but myself and my husband often bring his father (my father in law) out for meals, theatre etc... and we pay for him. I would never ever say (or even think) 'its your father, you pay'.

As a couple we split bills. There is no his money or my money, its our money. We dont have a joint account incidentally, we simply share whatever expenses come up.

Is that not what living together as a family unit is about?

That is not in any way comparable to the raising of a child that is not yours when both of her biological parents are involved.

username123

Glendambo wrote: »

That is not in any way comparable to the raising of a child that is not yours when both of her biological parents are involved.

We are not talking about the raising of a child. We are talking about a holiday with the OP, her partner, and her partners child.

Please re read my post if you do not understand the point I am making, I thought it was clear.

In the above situation and in all situations, myself and my partner split expenses. The holiday would be no different.

tinkerbell

OP, I think it is really rude for your partner to just assume that you will pay half for his child's flight. Ok so you are living together and things are serious, however you are not married and not the child's stepmother. You aren't even together that long either. It would be completely different if you were a family unit and you both are contributing to the same pot and then that pot pays for all your stuff.

Your partner should be covering his child's flight. You said you are more than happy to help cover the costs of meals, etc. on the holiday but I think it's completely taking advantage of you if he wants you to pay half the flight as well, that is just taking the p!ss altogether. By the way, I don't think the mother should be paying for this flight either - the child's father has chosen to take his child on holiday, so he should be paying for it, not the mother.

Daisy M

username123 wrote: »

A slightly different situation but myself and my husband often bring his father (my father in law) out for meals, theatre etc... and we pay for him. I would never ever say (or even think) 'its your father, you pay'.

As a couple we split bills. There is no his money or my money, its our money. We dont have a joint account incidentally, we simply share whatever expenses come up.

Is that not what living together as a family unit is about?

Well before my husband and I married, probably when we moved in together all our money was our. My husband has a child from a previous relationship but anything she needed and indeed all the court costs came from our finances, there was no wondering or resentment it was the way it was. However maybe the op and her partner have not reached a full commitment stage in their relationship but I think the op needs to look long term at both finances and the relationship and put this issue to bed.

username123

Daisy M wrote: »

Well before my husband and I married, probably when we moved in together all our money was our. My husband has a child from a previous relationship but anything she needed and indeed all the court costs came from our finances, there was no wondering or resentment it was the way it was. However maybe the op and her partner have not reached a full commitment stage in their relationship but I think the op needs to look long term at both finances and the relationship and put this issue to bed.

Yeah the real key here is the level of commitment and how the finances are viewed. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that as they were a couple living together that they were committed and had one pot for the finances. Thats what I had as soon as my now husband moved in. Im not really sure how clearly I can envisage any other way of living together without it becoming petty over who pays for what.

Ickle Magoo

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LegacyUser

Hi all,

First of all thank you to everyone who posted in a constructive manner. Secondly my partner and I have separate accounts but pay for all household bills etc together. Whether or not we have separate accounts is in no way a reflection on our level of commitment. I am shocked by the 'Oh my husband and I share OUR money in OUR joint account' brigade and 'anyone who doesn't aren't in a relationship as secure as ours'. How very close minded to assume your way is the right way and judge others for different choices. OUR decision works extremely well for both of us.

As regards the poster who said what a ghastly situation for the child and people who have thrown the word 'petty' around I would ask ye to get off your high horse and cop on. Some people can't see past their own situation. I have a great relationship with my partner's child and we are all very happy, this boils down to a difference in attitudes and is the first time it has arisen.

Anyway I have spoken to my partner and he said he just didn't think and of course he doesn't expect me to pay for half her flights etc so my issue has been solved. Mods you can close the thread now if you wish.

Thanks again to everyone who posted constructively