Guidance for a newbie going forward from 5kms/8kms

martyboy48

Hi all, I've been lurking around her for a good while now but finally plucked up the courage to ask for advice
I've given up the smokes just over 2 months ago(20 june'12) and started to get back to exercise. History wise was mainly soccer up to about 5 years ago lower leagues ie tried hard, drank a lot, smoked just as much.

So far i'm happy enough how it's going just need some advice on training ect..
When I started I was doing a 4km circuit with 3 or 4 short rest/stretching breaks in between. 2 evenings ago I ran 17km non stop.. *NOTE all of these are at a sloooow pace and this is where my problem is.
5km race time 26 mins
8km race time 42 mins

Generally i would run 3-4 times a week distance of 8km.. all these times are 43-46mins...
General pace is 5-6min/km
How can I improve times by the greatest time over the shortest timeframe given that i'm an oldie 37

I know I probably should have a more structured training log but my ambitions in running are not set in stone, ie i want a faster short distance time plus improve my distance with a good time also... Not asking for much am I and this is turning into a ramble so i'll leave it here and see how it goes

ger664

run slower run longer

RayCun

ger664 wrote: »

run slower run longer

+1
The more you run the faster you'll get. Don't try to go faster every run, take it easy on most runs, then when you do time your runs (preferably in a race!) you'll find you're going faster.

And join a club. Training with other people is easier, and will bring you on. Most clubs will have people around your level, so go along to a couple of training sessions and see what they're like. (It's not like football training, you don't have to make every session if you join)

martyboy48

Thanks for the input guys... I'll take what ye have said on board and give it a go..
I'm sure i'm going to find it strange to run slower as I really do thinks I'm very slow as it is, just chugging along at times it seems, but I'll give it a go...
As for joining a running club i've seen it mentioned before but never plucked up the courage on that either, the fear of the unknown if you will... How is it structured generally, All meet up, take off at x pace for y distance and if you are to slow they will all throw their eyes to heaven leaving me feeling like a tit??? This is the kind of thing which plays in my head and has put me off joining a club thus far.... Generally, I do a lot of things on my own and am a good self motivator when i start something I see it through... But I do value your advice RayCun and will go to club and have a chat at the very least...

huskerdu

I completele agree with the advice above, and I'm another middle aged plodder. I have made huge improvements over the last two years , using similar advice,


BTW 5-6 min/km is not slow.

If you run the Rathfarnham 5k in 3 weeks time in 26 minutes , it will be mid table. Hundreds of runners of all ages will be behind you.

Think of it this way.

In order to get stronger and faster as a runner, you need to build up endurance.
You build endurance by running lots of miles.
You can only run lots of miles without risking injury and aches by running them at an easy pace.

Running 8km 3 times a week, as fast as you can, will not make you faster at 8km any time soon.

Running 3 times a week with a structured program to increase your mileage by 10% a week and increase the length of your long run by 10% a week will work, but it takes time.

Most of all, enjoy running.

RayCun

martyboy48 wrote: »

How is it structured generally, All meet up, take off at x pace for y distance and if you are to slow they will all throw their eyes to heaven leaving me feeling like a tit???

In any club you join there are going to be people of different levels. So you won't normally get sessions where everyone does 2 miles at 7 minute mile pace, for example - for some people that would be too slow to be useful, for others it would be too fast to keep up with.
So generally in our club (and I presume most others) we'd say we're doing km laps or something, with recovery in between each one. We'd sort ourselves into groups of about the same speed, and the faster groups might do more laps. Within each group some would be faster and some slower but we'd regroup at the end of each lap, and the different groups would overlap in recovery sometimes.
You would want to make sure that there are a few other people in the club at around your pace, but most clubs have a fairly good range of ability.

Clearlier

First off, congratulations on your progress already. From 4k with a few breaks to 17k over the course of 2 months is a massive improvement. It is time to add a bit of structure and variety to your training though if you want to keep improving.

My prescription for improvement would be:

Run more
Run more often
Run at a variety of paces
Add some structure to your training

You're definitely doing the first one, you might be doing the second one, you're definitely not doing the 3rd one and probably not the fourth one..

The first thing to do is work out how much time you want to spend training each week, the second is to work out when that training should take place. The stronger the routine you put in place the better your training will go.

More and More Often
Improving at running as a beginner is simple, run more and you'll get fitter. There will come a point where you have to add intensity to get fitter but it won't be apparent for quite a while. You can run more by doing longer individual runs or by running more often. Generally more often is preferable and at this stage I wouldn't spend more than 2 hours on an individual run. Measuring distance is better than nothing but for a beginner I prefer time as improvements are often made quite quickly.

Variety and Structure
I said in the previous paragraph that there comes a point where you have to add intensity to get fitter. That point is not the optimal point at which to add intensity though. Ideally you should be doing runs of varying intensity from now on.

If you are running 3 times a week you want one long run, one tempo run and probably one run at about marathon pace with some strides tacked on.

At this stage the long run is all about time on your feet. Increase the time spent running by approx. 5 mins per week. Stop increasing the time when you get to 2 hours. If you can't add another run into you week at this stage you can start mixing up the paces, e.g. run for an hour at an easy pace and run the second hour at a good pace.

For the tempo run warm up for 10 mins, then run at a pace that allows you to say a few words but not hold a conversation for 20 mins, then warm down for a few minutes jogging. Ideally you'll do the 20 mins on relatively flat terrain as you're looking to maintain an even effort. Add 2 mins per week until you get to 30 mins.

A marathon pace run is probably around about what you're running at most of the time now. Same as before, start at something like 45 mins and add a few minutes each week. 60 - 75 mins is a good place to max out here. Strides are where you run about 100m at a fast but totally relaxed place. It's a good time to focus on a particular aspect of your form. You walk back slowly to where you started from and repeat. 6 - 10 strides is about standard.

Other runs to consider trying to fit in (not all each week) are:

a medium long run where you're running at long run pace maxing out at around 90 mins.

Diagonals - Find a football pitch, jog the goal line then run to the opposite corner at a fast but relaxed pace. Warm up, warm down, max out at 20 - 30 mins on diagonals for the moment, maybe start with 10 mins.

Intervals - good for peaking for a race do these with a club or do long ones like 3 * 10 mins with a warm up and warm down. Near enough but not quite at the fastest pace you could handle for that length of time

Recovery runs - the day after a hard/long run take it easy and do a recovery run. The goal is to feel better after it do always a nice relaxed pace.

Edit to say take an easier week every 4th week. Leave the intensity about the same but reduce the time by 20% or so. This will help you to consolidate the training that you have done.

Good luck!

martyboy48

Clearlier wrote: »

First off, congratulations on your progress already. From 4k with a few breaks to 17k over the course of 2 months is a massive improvement. It is time to add a bit of structure and variety to your training though if you want to keep improving.

My prescription for improvement would be:

Run more
Run more often
Run at a variety of paces
Add some structure to your training

You're definitely doing the first one, you might be doing the second one, you're definitely not doing the 3rd one and probably not the fourth one..

The first thing to do is work out how much time you want to spend training each week, the second is to work out when that training should take place. The stronger the routine you put in place the better your training will go.

More and More Often
Improving at running as a beginner is simple, run more and you'll get fitter. There will come a point where you have to add intensity to get fitter but it won't be apparent for quite a while. You can run more by doing longer individual runs or by running more often. Generally more often is preferable and at this stage I wouldn't spend more than 2 hours on an individual run. Measuring distance is better than nothing but for a beginner I prefer time as improvements are often made quite quickly.

Variety and Structure
I said in the previous paragraph that there comes a point where you have to add intensity to get fitter. That point is not the optimal point at which to add intensity though. Ideally you should be doing runs of varying intensity from now on.

If you are running 3 times a week you want one long run, one tempo run and probably one run at about marathon pace with some strides tacked on.

At this stage the long run is all about time on your feet. Increase the time spent running by approx. 5 mins per week. Stop increasing the time when you get to 2 hours. If you can't add another run into you week at this stage you can start mixing up the paces, e.g. run for an hour at an easy pace and run the second hour at a good pace.

For the tempo run warm up for 10 mins, then run at a pace that allows you to say a few words but not hold a conversation for 20 mins, then warm down for a few minutes jogging. Ideally you'll do the 20 mins on relatively flat terrain as you're looking to maintain an even effort. Add 2 mins per week until you get to 30 mins.

A marathon pace run is probably around about what you're running at most of the time now. Same as before, start at something like 45 mins and add a few minutes each week. 60 - 75 mins is a good place to max out here. Strides are where you run about 100m at a fast but totally relaxed place. It's a good time to focus on a particular aspect of your form. You walk back slowly to where you started from and repeat. 6 - 10 strides is about standard.

Other runs to consider trying to fit in (not all each week) are:

a medium long run where you're running at long run pace maxing out at around 90 mins.

Diagonals - Find a football pitch, jog the goal line then run to the opposite corner at a fast but relaxed pace. Warm up, warm down, max out at 20 - 30 mins on diagonals for the moment, maybe start with 10 mins.

Intervals - good for peaking for a race do these with a club or do long ones like 3 * 10 mins with a warm up and warm down. Near enough but not quite at the fastest pace you could handle for that length of time

Recovery runs - the day after a hard/long run take it easy and do a recovery run. The goal is to feel better after it do always a nice relaxed pace.

Edit to say take an easier week every 4th week. Leave the intensity about the same but reduce the time by 20% or so. This will help you to consolidate the training that you have done.

Good luck!

Whoooah... Plenty to work on with this and previous posts Thank you very much.. OK so here's what i'm thinking...
From what i've read, basically I have to run more, plus more often with a proper structured plan including varoius paces.. So here's where I have to work on.. PACING... This is probably my biggest hurdle with most of my training. The problem is I have one pace I can use for running, I struggle to change it unless i'm going for a short sprint. It's something I will have to really work on so..
hows this :
1* LSR
1* tempo/strides
2* 8kms easy pace
1* short recovery run after LSR
(order will be recovery/tempo/8km/8km/LSR) This ok??
LSR and 8kms run distances increased by 10% per week..


OK, does this seem reasonable to start? I've gone through my home/work life and I have the time to do this schedule..
A big fear for me would be injury/overtraining. Suffered a slipped disc before and was wary about getting back out there but glad I got up of my arse... Small bit of pain on the ball of my feet but recon it's just a matter of getting sore more miles in the legs...

Thanks again for all the advice, it is most appreciated

Clearlier

martyboy48 wrote: »

Whoooah... Plenty to work on with this and previous posts Thank you very much.. OK so here's what i'm thinking...
From what i've read, basically I have to run more, plus more often with a proper structured plan including varoius paces.. So here's where I have to work on.. PACING... This is probably my biggest hurdle with most of my training. The problem is I have one pace I can use for running, I struggle to change it unless i'm going for a short sprint. It's something I will have to really work on so..
hows this :
1* LSR
1* tempo/strides
2* 8kms easy pace
1* short recovery run after LSR
(order will be recovery/tempo/8km/8km/LSR) This ok??
LSR and 8kms run distances increased by 10% per week..


OK, does this seem reasonable to start? I've gone through my home/work life and I have the time to do this schedule..
A big fear for me would be injury/overtraining. Suffered a slipped disc before and was wary about getting back out there but glad I got up of my arse... Small bit of pain on the ball of my feet but recon it's just a matter of getting sore more miles in the legs...

Thanks again for all the advice, it is most appreciated

Hi Marty,

First point to note is that you shouldn't jump into your new schedule, you need to build into it over a few weeks. Get the frequency of runs first so that you're in the habit of getting out, then start turning them into the different type of runs.

Start every run slowly, for most people it takes their body about 10 minutes to get used to the idea of running. You'll do better if you allow your body that time to adjust. By slowly I mean nothing much faster than a walk for a couple of minutes and then slowly pick it up.

For injury prevention most people mention core and they're half right. A weak core is usually the source of many injuries for people with desk jobs however the real problem is posture. The reason that 'core' is half right is because many people can't hold good posture/form because of a weak core. For my money though the part of the core that most people need to look at is their back.

Good posture = good form and good posture is something that you should practice all day long.

In terms of the runs that you mention they seem ok but you don't mention the days that you'll do them on which has an impact, e.g. the recovery run should only be done the day after a hard run - there's not much point in doing one if you're fresh. If you're doing the 8k run the day after the tempo you should turn it into a recovery run.

The only other change I would make at this stage is to change your training units from distance to time.

martyboy48

Thanks for that Clearlier. I will take what you said on board and make the appropriate changes. It all seems logical when it's posted there in front of you
My posture hasn't been great but it has improved since giving up smokes and getting out there doing a bit. The extra bit of energy I have has given me a spring in my step and I find myself walking taller. The previous back injury I put down to poor running form, not warmed up too long a stride and jarred/jolted back coming off a step I think it was.. Don't want to go back to that pain again

So, to summarise, I'm going to do this properly this time and please God it will all work out. I'll amend my plan as advised by you Clearlier, and would like to thank all previous posters for their input also..