DeValera

Crann na Beatha

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nuac

One should not consider any film a serious historical source

Would take too long to reply to your query - too many pros and cons

steddyeddy

This is just a legend probrably but my granny personally hated devalera because "he came out under sheet" after surrender. Is there any truth in that or is it propaganda? Sounds like the latter.

goose2005

It's easier to love people when they're dead. If DeV had died in the civil war, and Collins gone on to be Taoiseach for decades, DeV would be our heroic lost leader and Collins the arch-conservative authoritarian weirdo who held Ireland back.

nuac

goose2005 wrote: »

It's easier to love people when they're dead. If DeV had died in the civil war, and Collins gone on to be Taoiseach for decades, DeV would be our heroic lost leader and Collins the arch-conservative authoritarian weirdo who held Ireland back.

As some cynic said "an early tragic death is always a good career move"

nuac

To properly debate Dev I would need to re-read McArdle, Coogan, Ferriter etc.

Further I actually met the man, and had relations who were with him and some against him at various dates from 1916. Further back he was a teacher and Rugby coach when my father was at school. Therefore if I had the time and ability, I would need space for a long essay.

However as for me history is only an occasional recreational diversion from work, to get the ball rolling on this rather quiet forum I would suggest for discussion some of Dev's good and bad points as follows

Good

1. He was an able publicist for the cause of independence in the US during 1919/20

2. He used the League of Nations and Commonwealth conferences to advance this country's cause

3. Got the ports back just in time before WW2

4. Maintained a precarious neutrality, leaning towards the Alliers, during WW2 despite a lot of pressure from Churchill and later Gray the US ambassador

5. For a man reputed to indecisive, when Belfast was bombed he had the Fire Brigades on their way within hours of the request, which came in the early hours of the morning of the bombing

6. His reply to Churchill at end of war was a classic

Bad points

1, He should have gone to London for at least the final phase of the treaty negotiations, to seal the deal. The Irish team were up against the world's wiliest politicians. We should have fielded our best team

2. If he had supported the treaty in DÉ, there might not have been a Civil War

3. Economic War - big mistake imho

4. Visiting Hempel on death of Hitler - misguided sense of protocol - probably did us more damage in UK and US public opinion than denying the ports during the Battle of the Atlantic

5. Staying on too long as Taoiseach - should have stood aside for Lemass, thus allowing economy to be opened up.