Best Steely Dan album

DrWu

There doesnt seem to be a general concensus on this one, even among critics. One or two are generally accepted as pretty weak (Two against nature and Everything must go) but no agreement on a best one.

So, what's everyone's favourite?

Rigsby

[Origanally quoted by Rigsby ] "Just thought I'd nip it in the bud before we have a plethora of "best classic rock album ever", "best classic rock song ever", "best classic rock lyrics ever" etc type threads."]


Here we go...!!!

In case you dont know what I'm talking about, see this thread :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056740971

DrWu

Sorry still dont get it. Isnt this a classic rock forum?

erm..nice weather today?

Rigsby

DrWu wrote: »

Sorry still dont get it. Isnt this a classic rock forum?

It is just that IMO "best XYZ" threads are boring. It usually ends up with posts like "X is best.... no, Y is best" type posts.

It would be a nice change to just discuss their music without including "best".

What say you ?

DrWu

Rigsby wrote: »

It is just that IMO "best XYZ" threads are boring. It usually ends up with posts like "X is best.... no, Y is best" type posts.

It would be a nice change to just discuss their music without including "best".

What say you ?

Yeah I'm good with that. I do feel that the Dan are unique in this. Take The Stones or Van Morrison, there's a pretty high agreement on their best album, but Steely Dan seems to be totally up for grabs.

Rigsby

DrWu wrote: »

Yeah I'm good with that. I do feel that the Dan are unique in this. Take The Stones or Van Morrison, there's a pretty high agreement on their best album, but Steely Dan seems to be totally up for grabs.

Well my favourite (not "the best" ) Dan albums are their first one "Cant Buy A Thrill", "Aja" and "Pretzal Logic". I never liked "Against Nature" despite numerous plays, in the hope that it would grow on me. To me it seemed very weak compared to their earlier output. Granted it is hard to continuously keep up the early high standard they set.

BTW have you ever went to see/hear the superb Dan tribute band who play in JJ's ?

DrWu

Rigsby wrote: »

Well my favourite (not "the best" ) Dan albums are their first one "Cant Buy A Thrill", "Aja" and "Pretzal Logic". I never liked "Against Nature" despite numerous plays, in the hope that it would grow on me. To me it seemed very weak compared to their earlier output. Granted it is hard to continuously keep up the early high standard they set.

BTW have you ever went to see/hear the superb Dan tribute band who play in JJ's ?

Is that the band with the really young lead guitarist? Heard they're brilliant. Must get along next time they're playing.

Re the Dan stuff. My favourite tracks are on Katy Lied (DrWu and Bad Sneakers) but the rest of the album is pretty weak stylistically. Pretzel Logic never tires though. Musically they kicked ass when Dias and co left, but that country/folk/jazz/rock vibe was lost and they became just another jazz-rock fusion band. Still flashes of brilliance like Deacon Blues and Home At Last but that country vibe was really missed.

Rigsby

DrWu wrote: »

Is that the band with the really young lead guitarist?

Their guitarist is not that young, unless they got a new one since I last saw them. They are called "Aja"...naturally. :pac:


Being a bassist, I really appreciate Chuck Rainey's contribution on the early albums. Story goes that he was particularly asked ( instructed, more like) not to use any slap bass on "Peg". Being the pro bassist that he is, he decided that the song could do with a little slap, so he went and put in just a little. When Becker and Fagan heard the end result, they agreed with him and it was left in.

DrWu

Rigsby wrote: »

Their guitarist is not that young, unless they got a new one since I last saw them. They are called "Aja"...naturally. :pac:


Being a bassist, I really appreciate Chuck Rainey's contribution on the early albums. Story goes that he was particularly asked ( instructed, more like) not to use any slap bass on "Peg". Being the pro bassist that he is, he decided that the song could do with a little slap, so he went and put in just a little. When Becker and Fagan heard the end result, they agreed with him and it was left in.

Saw that. Very sneaky. I think he got it past them by lowering the mids to get more of a dull popping sound. Great bassist. I'm a bassist too btw. Hats off to anyone who pulls off some of those basslines in a live setting (Green Earrings and Peg especially). Not an easy task.

Rigsby

DrWu wrote: »

Hats off to anyone who pulls off some of those basslines in a live setting (Green Earrings and Peg especially). Not an easy task.

You should definitely go and see "Aja" if you get a chance. Tommy Moore on bass, is an old pro who makes playing their music so effortless and easy, which we all know it is anything but... Any time I go, I watch him like a hawk.

Here is their facebook page :

http://www.myspace.com/ajaplaysdan

The Royal Scam

I would have to say The Royal Scam !

mike65

Either Royal Scam or Katy Lied for me, Aja sounds sublime but it just a bit too laid back. The only thing wrong with Katy is the last track "Throw the little ones in" which almost sounds like CD extra track, Any World is a strong track to end the album with. Katy also contains possibly the most outré song every snuck on to a "mainstream" rock album - "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" It not everyday you find your tapping your toes to a tale of....ah but that would be telling.

iomega

I rate them

1 Aja
2 The Royal scam
3 Goucho
4 Two against nature
5 Can't buy a thrill
6 Pretzel Logic
7 Countdown to ecstasy
8 Kathy Lied
9 Everything must go

DrWu

iomega wrote: »

I rate them

1 Aja
2 The Royal scam
3 Goucho
4 Two against nature
5 Can't buy a thrill
6 Pretzel Logic
7 Countdown to ecstasy
8 Kathy Lied
9 Everything must go

Ooh, controversial! Really interesting though the way their music changed over the years. I love that early country influence and the band vibe with Denny Dias and co. Not so keen on the strictly jazz-rock stuff that came in with Aja though.

That drift from east coast cynicism to west coast slickness (started with Aja and finishing with Two Aginst Nature) kind of jarred with me too. Although I love the songs and the musicianship the whole Michael McDonald ultra smooth thing took their edge off a little.

nlgbbbblth

Aja for me.

I got into them via De La Soul's Eye Know. I bought the 12" during the summer of 1989 and checked out the samples [of which Peg was one].

singlesnights

"Aja", the band, are AMAZING - go see them!

My fave Steely album would probably be Aja, followed closely by The Royal Scam. I was obsessed with Katy Lied a while back.

Their "Alive in America" album is a must-have. Steely Dan is so heavily and perfectly produced, it's really nice to hear them raw in concert. Plus the performances of Dennis Chambers (basically the best drummer ever) and Georg Wadenius (AMAZING guitarist) are especially mindblowing.

If you like the studio version of Bodhisattva, just imagine it on steroids! :cool:

Zeek12

Countdown to Ecstasy......too good for words!

Honourable mention too for Pretzel Logic

bnt

Another vote for Aja here too: it has that "West Coast slickness" & stellar production values but doesn't lose the essence of The Dan.

But I would also want to include Donald's The Nightfly in any such list, as an honourary Steely Dan album. About the only person missing from the credits is Walter Becker.

Rigsby

There are a few clips on You Tube where Becker and Fagan talk about how certain songs were recorded. On one of these clips they talk about how they tried out six guitarists before deciding on one ( I think this particular song was the guitar solo in "Peg").

It begs the question though, did they ever disagree on how a song was to sound, and if so, how did they decide on the final product ?

nlgbbbblth

This book is well worth checking out - a great series.

bnt

Rigsby wrote: »

There are a few clips on You Tube where Becker and Fagan talk about how certain songs were recorded. On one of these clips they talk about how they tried out six guitarists before deciding on one ( I think this particular song was the guitar solo in "Peg").

It begs the question though, did they ever disagree on how a song was to sound, and if so, how did they decide on the final product ?

Chuck Rainey makes a comment along the lines of "they didn't just play Musical Chairs with band members, they played Musical Bands". :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIBA6_0GQc

Rigsby

bnt wrote: »

Chuck Rainey makes a comment along the lines of "they didn't just play Musical Chairs with band members, they played Musical Bands"

Yeah, he also describes how he "sneaked in " the slap bass in the chorus of Peg. :pac:

washiskin

At the risk of getting the stuffing knocked out of me, is there a case for nominating "The Nightfly" as the best album they never made?

I've had it on shuffle in the gaff here for the past 16 months and can honestly say I've never tired of it and hear something new each time I listen. "Maxine" has even grown on me.

One of the best bands I ever seen live too.

bnt

I love The Nightfly too (see above), but if I was going to pick a great Steely Dan album not made by Steely Dan, it would be Flaunt The Imperfection by China Crisis. The guys were such great Dan Fans that they asked Walter Becker to produce it, and it spawned such hits as King In A Catholic Style and Black Man Ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2UriAMDuwA

nlgbbbblth

bnt wrote: »

I love The Nightfly too (see above), but if I was going to pick a great Steely Dan album not made by Steely Dan, it would be Flaunt The Imperfection by China Crisis. The guys were such great Dan Fans that they asked Walter Becker to produce it, and it spawned such hits as King In A Catholic Style and Black Man Ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2UriAMDuwA

I really like that LP - reminds me of school. Also love Difficult Shapes & Passive Rhythms, Some People Think It's Fun to Entertain - especially African and White.

RINO87

gotta be pretzel logic, its my go to record when I cant think of anyhting to listen to. While we are on the topic of the dan if anyone has a copy of two against nature on viny going spare i would be willing to part with a few quid for it. Its the only dan album that i dont have on vinyl and have yet to come across it anywhere.

mike65

The Nightfly is indeed almost certainly the best album Steely Dan never made. A perfect mix of moods and styles.

nlgbbbblth

RINO87 wrote: »

gotta be pretzel logic, its my go to record when I cant think of anyhting to listen to. While we are on the topic of the dan if anyone has a copy of two against nature on viny going spare i would be willing to part with a few quid for it. Its the only dan album that i dont have on vinyl and have yet to come across it anywhere.

I've seen it at record fairs. Supposedly it's sourced from the digital master and doesn't sound too good. An analogue master also exists so a future reissue might happen.

Walter Becker wrote:

There have been questions now and again about the prospect of vinyl pressings of the "Two Against Nature" album. We have not mastered such a disc as of this time and so anything that you see out there along these lines is an unauthorized version. Such a pressing would incorporate all the limitations of digital audio (frequency response limit, converter artifacts, etc.) plus all the limitations of vinyl (phase shift, limited frequency response, noise, distortion, etc.). Also, such a pressing would also not have been done by us and so the aesthetic compromises made to master the album to vinyl would represent someone else's taste and judgement (or the lack thereof) and so I suggest you give this one a miss.

However, at the time the album was mixed, a set of high quality analog master mixes was made along with the digital ones, and, knowing that some people still prefer the vinyl format, we are exploring the idea of using these tapes to make a vinyl pressing at some time in the future. We'll keep you posted on this possibility as time goes on.

RINO87

^^cheers for that, interesting!

10000maniacs

DrWu wrote: »

There doesnt seem to be a general concensus on this one, even among critics. One or two are generally accepted as pretty weak (Two against nature and Everything must go) but no agreement on a best one.

So, what's everyone's favourite?

I wish people wouldn't be making rash statements like this. The general concensus is that Two Against Nature is up there with their best.

witty username

Only recently started listening to them (hangs head in shame) but I've had them on a continuous loop in my head ever since. The Royal Scam and Aja are the standout albums for me so far. Amazing stuff in every album though.

DrWu

Fagen's solo stuff is great too. Sunken Condos and Kamakiriad are my faves. Talk of a new Dan one sometime soon.

Ray John Robbie Jim

I've got them all on original Vinyl (boasting about my babies can be hard thing to quell).

My favourite at the present juncture is "Countdown to Ecstasy".

Reasons: The Dan have continued to be a great collection of highly talented studio musicians however, with Countdown they were an actual band of working musicians that had just finished a grueling tour and who were being pushed for that make or break 2nd release. What you hear are vibes that can only be ground out through the telepathic links generated via sweaty motel nites shared in the back-end of that next college town venue. Grinding, Sweaty, Shared, Back-end... oh sh*te I'd better stop. Anyways, after Countdown the studio band thing prevailed.

Totofan99

It's really difficult to pick out the best Steely Dan album... At least for me! So many great songs....

iomega

Donald Fagen's solo albums:

1 The Night Fly
2 Morph the cat
3 Karmakiriad
4 Sunken Condos