Maths for Adults

KenW123

Yesterday my 15 yr old comes to me with his JC Maths book with a problem on HCF's that he couldn't figure. After 20 minutes reading the examples and looking at answers I had to tell him I couldn't figure it out either. It brought back memories of school where the maths teacher would tell me "this goes there, so that equals that" to which I invariably responded, Why? Only to be told, "Because it just does....OK?". So perhaps I had a bad maths teacher. I don't think so because I had many of them. As an adult, I am intrigued by my inability to understand - not learn by rote, but to understand maths. Those with maths ability seem not to understand when someone cannot grasp basic concepts in the way that they are typically taught.

Ironically, I work in the IT services sector where problem solving is a major part of my everyday work. I have no doubts about my logical thinking or learning abilities. Over the past year I have been looking for a Junior Cert Maths class for adults but none seem to exist. Does anyone know of any? My interest is again sparked by the push in our education system on Maths; it would seem like a good idea if interested parents had a facility to learn maths themselves and help their kids out.

Thoughts.....?

TheBody

KenW123 wrote: »

Yesterday my 15 yr old comes to me with his JC Maths book with a problem on HCF's that he couldn't figure. After 20 minutes reading the examples and looking at answers I had to tell him I couldn't figure it out either. It brought back memories of school where the maths teacher would tell me "this goes there, so that equals that" to which I invariably responded, Why? Only to be told, "Because it just does....OK?". So perhaps I had a bad maths teacher. I don't think so because I had many of them. As an adult, I am intrigued by my inability to understand - not learn by rote, but to understand maths. Those with maths ability seem not to understand when someone cannot grasp basic concepts in the way that they are typically taught.

Ironically, I work in the IT services sector where problem solving is a major part of my everyday work. I have no doubts about my logical thinking or learning abilities. Over the past year I have been looking for a Junior Cert Maths class for adults but none seem to exist. Does anyone know of any? My interest is again sparked by the push in our education system on Maths; it would seem like a good idea if interested parents had a facility to learn maths themselves and help their kids out.

Thoughts.....?

First of all I think it's great that you are taking an interest in your kids education.

I'm not aware of adult coures that are at Junior cert level. I'm sure some schools do basic (adult) maths courses but I get the impression you are looking for something a bit harder than that. Perhaps you could organise something in your local community centre? I'd say it could be very popular.

There are some greeat websites with maths videos. For example:

www.patrickjmt.com
www.khanacademy.com

KenW123

Thanks so much for your reply. I should have been more specific about classes. There are maths classes for Junior Cert sometimes at community centres but they tend to be back to education type courses and run on mornings or daytime. Not quite like the evening classes that are offered in other subjects.

I have seen many paid and free websites with video and interactive online tutors. The video example you mention is offers a perfect example of what I was mentioning earlier. Take the http://patrickjmt.com/factoring-the-difference-of-two-squares-ex-1/ video where the tutor advises the A2 - B2 (squared) don't factor but if they were 3 then they would. Why? Video presumes this will make sense to a learner. This why I need a class. Hopefully I'm not the only one who needs this level of instruction!

Turtwig

Pace yourself.

To use a terrible analogy but it is the only one I can currently think of. When you're a Catholic you don't notice how silly the Ash on your forehead appears to non Catholics. You've just become so accustomed to it and used to it that you barely notice how bizarre it seems to the non Catholic. It's the same thing here, certain mathematical operations become so intuitive to use than we don't even realise the complexities or bizarreness involved in doing them. The thing is it's like anything at first it appears alien to use but if you keep reading it, persevering with it it will begin to click. Everyone just has their own pace and once you get over the first hurdle the second one will be easier, the third one even easier again, until at some point down the road you hit on another concept that is totally abstract to you and the process begins all over.
Just stick with it, keep patience, don't give up and in time it'll sink in and 'click'.:)

Whatever you do, don't assume you ought to know or understand something by a certain period. If you've got time check out this Khan Academy and this video. It's about 20 mins long, but worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTFEUsudhfs

KenW123

Thanks for the link and encouragement. While I'd prefer a class, it would probably be a good idea to try to isolate the videos there that match the JC maths book. Has this been done before or already available on the web?

Pursuing this I have come across so many maths teaching resources, Alta Maths, Borenson Visual Algebra, Destination Math, Explore Learning Gizmos, Jaguar Maths Challenge, GeoGebra to name but a few. And then the intriguing teaching/learning ideas in the Ted talks videos, why does none of this seem to get into the Irish maths classroom?

Michael Collins

You could always try the grinds route. Maybe start off with some grinds and then try a bit of self learning using the videos as you progress, then you can go for more grinds as you need them.

Anyone giving grinds would probably be delighted to get an interested adult that might actually do some work in between the lessons! Just a thought...

KeithTS

It sounds to me like you're trying to solve problems without understanding the basic concepts behind them.

Instead of taking the JC maths books and looking at the HCF problems, or that chapter, start at the beginning of the book and work through it from page 1.

If you take the JC course from page 1 of book 1 I'd say you'll have no problem getting through the material. By the time you hit HCF it will make sense to you

ray giraffe

KenW123 wrote: »

Take the http://patrickjmt.com/factoring-the-difference-of-two-squares-ex-1/ video where the tutor advises the A2 + B2 (squared) don't factor but if they were 3 then they would. Why? Video presumes this will make sense to a learner.

This is actually a fairly deep question. It's not supposed to make sense yet!

A quote from the Matrix is appropriate:
"After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill -- the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill -- you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." :cool:

[latex](a^2+b^2)=(a+\sqrt{-1}b)(a-\sqrt{-1}b)[/latex]

Michael Collins wrote: »

You could always try the grinds route. Maybe start off with some grinds and then try a bit of self learning using the videos as you progress, then you can go for more grinds as you need them.

Anyone giving grinds would probably be delighted to get an interested adult that might actually do some work in between the lessons!

I give grinds and would be delighted to have an interested student.

I am in Dublin 18 and you can come for help as often or as seldom as you like! ******** (More info about me in the 3rd Level grinds thread)

Justin1982

KenW123 wrote: »

Yesterday my 15 yr old comes to me with his JC Maths book with a problem on HCF's that he couldn't figure. After 20 minutes reading the examples and looking at answers I had to tell him I couldn't figure it out either. It brought back memories of school where the maths teacher would tell me "this goes there, so that equals that" to which I invariably responded, Why? Only to be told, "Because it just does....OK?". So perhaps I had a bad maths teacher. I don't think so because I had many of them. As an adult, I am intrigued by my inability to understand - not learn by rote, but to understand maths. Those with maths ability seem not to understand when someone cannot grasp basic concepts in the way that they are typically taught.

Ironically, I work in the IT services sector where problem solving is a major part of my everyday work. I have no doubts about my logical thinking or learning abilities. Over the past year I have been looking for a Junior Cert Maths class for adults but none seem to exist. Does anyone know of any? My interest is again sparked by the push in our education system on Maths; it would seem like a good idea if interested parents had a facility to learn maths themselves and help their kids out.

Thoughts.....?

I'll just say that in my experience, having seen complete maths geniuses at work in college, the way to get good at maths is to really enjoy it, immerse yourself in it and to tackle mathematical problems with complete confidence. The best mathematicians get stuck on maths problems as well but they just keep at a problem for long periods of time, sometimes abandoning a problem for a period and returning to it later. The average Joe Soap gets stuck on a problem, cant solve it, gets frustrated and walks away from it with their confidence to tackle maths shattered.

Go back to the maths problem your son showed you which you couldnt solve. Go through the related chapter or chapters of the maths book your son has and study it. Tackle the problem again and again. If you fail then keep re-reading the related chapters. Maybe attempt some other problems in the same section. I guarantee that if you get the answer you'll be over the moon and you'll understand how to attempt to solve any solve in your sons maths book and you wont be intimidated by maths so easily again.

Also dont rely on grinds and classes as a way to learn maths. If you want to be able to do maths then you need to do the hard ground work of reading JC or LC maths books (they generally are very good) and attempting problems. Having a tutor can be a real help of course but the ground work has to be done on your own.

I'd recommend immersing yourself in popular maths books like "Fermats last theorem" by Simon Singh or his other book called "The Code Book". They can really spark an interest in Maths and inspire one to tackle Maths head on. JC and LC maths can be very abstract with little emphasis if any at all on why you would need to learn a particular section of maths.

TheBody

Justin1982 wrote: »

I'll just say that in my experience, having seen complete maths geniuses at work in college, the way to get good at maths is to really enjoy it, immerse yourself in it and to tackle mathematical problems with complete confidence. The best mathematicians get stuck on maths problems as well but they just keep at a problem for long periods of time, sometimes abandoning a problem for a period and returning to it later. The average Joe Soap gets stuck on a problem, cant solve it, gets frustrated and walks away from it with their confidence to tackle maths shattered.

Go back to the maths problem your son showed you which you couldnt solve. Go through the related chapter or chapters of the maths book your son has and study it. Tackle the problem again and again. If you fail then keep re-reading the related chapters. Maybe attempt some other problems in the same section. I guarantee that if you get the answer you'll be over the moon and you'll understand how to attempt to solve any solve in your sons maths book and you wont be intimidated by maths so easily again.

Also dont rely on grinds and classes as a way to learn maths. If you want to be able to do maths then you need to do the hard ground work of reading JC or LC maths books (they generally are very good) and attempting problems. Having a tutor can be a real help of course but the ground work has to be done on your own.

I'd recommend immersing yourself in popular maths books like "Fermats last theorem" by Simon Singh or his other book called "The Code Book". They can really spark an interest in Maths and inspire one to tackle Maths head on. JC and LC maths can be very abstract with little emphasis if any at all on why you would need to learn a particular section of maths.

I just want to say that I agree with everything here. Good post. Maybe add The Man Who Knew Infinity to your popular maths book list. It's my favourite.

Yakuza

I'd throw in "How many socks make a pair?" and "Why do buses come in threes?" as good popular maths books to read - they're both fairly easy reads. Martin Garnder's books are also good reads.