Enda Kenny, Arrest Paddy Cooney, former FG Justice Minister for High Treason.

An Claidheamh

After watching a repeat of the excellent TG4 series Brathadóirí, it once again shows that members of the Irish government of 1974, Fine Gael and Labour, collaborated with enemies of the Irish state.

This man, Paddy Cooney, who was our Minister for Justice at the time of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974, days later met with British representatives behind the atrocity to discuss Irish "co-operation" with their regime in the North.

This meeting was kept secret, the bombings were covered by the Fine Gael-Labour government of the time. Members included Liam Cosgrave, Garret Fitzgerald, Conor Cruise O'Brien, etc. All admitted the British were behind the terrorist attack on our citizens and democracy.

Yet, no prosecutions. An Oireachtas Committee in 2006, found that the British govt were indeed behind the bomb and other murders, yet would not cooperate with the investigation.

So now Mr Enda Kenny.
Now that we are aware of what happened as documented by TG4, after all this time, why is a politician who is implicated in the murder of Irish citizens in our Republic not in prison.

Or are you too a coward?

Sponge Bob

Would Cooney not be dead now ?

martingriff

An Claidheamh wrote: »

After watching a repeat of the excellent TG4 series Brathadóirí, it once again shows that members of the Irish government of 1974, Fine Gael and Labour, collaborated with enemies of the Irish state.

This man, Paddy Cooney, who was our Minister for Justice at the time of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974, days later met with British representatives behind the atrocity to discuss Irish "co-operation" with their regime in the North.

This meeting was kept secret, the bombings were covered by the Fine Gael-Labour government of the time. Members included Liam Cosgrave, Garret Fitzgerald, Conor Cruise O'Brien, etc. All admitted the British were behind the terrorist attack on our citizens and democracy.

Yet, no prosecutions. An Oireachtas Committee in 2006, found that the British govt were indeed behind the bomb and other murders, yet would not cooperate with the investigation.

So now Mr Enda Kenny.
Now that we are aware of what happened as documented by TG4, after all this time, why is a politician who is implicated in the murder of Irish citizens in our Republic not in prison.

Or are you too a coward?

So wait a minute because they met with some British politicans who may have known about it you are suggesting that the goverment of the day were in on it. Should we have arrested DeVelera because he sent condolense to Germany (bad idea) after Hitlers death is he now implicated in the Hollocaust (since he knew what was going on)

Sponge Bob

I also thought "high" involves special treason like killing our king n stuff. What offences in Irish law attract a charge of HIGH Treason then and have we a king?

Sunnyisland

An attitude of resignation appears to have been adopted by the Government insofar as the bombings were seen to have been inevitable because of the actions of the IRA. Speeches by the Taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave; the Minister for Justice, Paddy Cooney; the Minister for Posts & Telegraphs, Conor Cruise O'Brien; the Minister for Local Government, Jim Tully; the leader of the Opposition, Jack Lynch and the Attorney General, Declan Costello, all gave this message loud and clear.

It was repeatedly stated in the days following the bombing that any Irish citizen who had even entertained the thought of supporting the IRA's contemporary campaign was every bit as guilty of the slaughter of the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings as were those who had, cold-bloodedly and without any warning, planned and carried out the atrocity.

The whole Dublin/Monaghan bombings has been a cover up for years, until the whole files are opened up there will never be full disclosure by the Irish or British governments.And imo the cowardly and inaction by the Irish government is and was sickening.

Patrick cooney is still alive.

touts

Well if we apply the same conditions for definitions of High Treason

"Collaborated with enemies of the Irish state"
"Met with XXXX representatives behind the atrocity"
"Meeting was kept secret"
"Terrorist attack on our citizens and democracy"
"XXX were indeed behind the bomb and other murders, yet would not cooperate with the investigation".
"why is a politician who is implicated in the murder of Irish citizens in our Republic not in prison"

Then Gerry Adams and most of the Sinn Fein will be facing a firing squad in the morning for their meetings with IRA members (nevermind their possible membership of said IRA) at a time when the IRA wanted to overthrow the democratic Irish Republic and replace it with a socialist dictatorship.

After them several members of the current government would be in jail for their meetings and active association with those in the old Workers Party who headed to Moscow in the 70s and 80s to get funding for a possible communist coup and dictatorship in Ireland.

And lets not forgot those in the last government who met with and served under individuals who took part in illegal gun running to the aforementioned IRA.

Paddy Cooney might find a long queue ahead of him to get his day in the showtrials for all those who met with those who committed crimes against the Irish state and people!

Sponge Bob

Sure there are associates of the Official IRA in the current cabinet, where does poor Enda start???

Laminations

realies wrote: »

It was repeatedly stated in the days following the bombing that any Irish citizen who had even entertained the thought of supporting the IRA's contemporary campaign was every bit as guilty of the slaughter of the victims ....

Does it really matter what atrocity from the Troubles you finish that sentence with? With 7 still disappeared, supporters of IRA actions ARE guilty of condoning horrific acts..

golfball37

This is a stand slone slaughter of Irish citizens and any attempt to equate what the IRA did is only an attempt to muddy waters.

The IRA are called terrorists for their actions, what can we describe the people responsible for Dublin/Monaghan?

They are all traitors imo.

jhegarty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Would Cooney not be dead now ?

Still alive I believe.

goose2005

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I also thought "high" involves special treason like killing our king n stuff. What offences in Irish law attract a charge of HIGH Treason then and have we a king?

Treason referred originally to any kind of betrayal; high treason for betraying the monarch or the state (I think that Diana technically could have been executed for committing adultery against the Crown Prince).

Treason in Ireland is "levying war against the State, on assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government, established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt"

Reading through OP's forest of Shinnerisms (I needed "gerrymandered illegitimate statelet" for a full house) I think he's saying that members of the British security forces may have had a hand in the bombings, therefore any discussion with British political leaders is treason. Or something.

Sunnyisland

goose2005 wrote: »

Treason referred originally to any kind of betrayal; high treason for betraying the monarch or the state (I think that Diana technically could have been executed for committing adultery against the Crown Prince).

Treason in Ireland is "levying war against the State, on assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government, established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt"

Reading through OP's forest of Shinnerisms (I needed "gerrymandered illegitimate statelet" for a full house) I think he's saying that members of the British security forces may have had a hand in the bombings, therefore any discussion with British political leaders is treason. Or something.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The OP is not the only one to have misgivings about who was responsible...The McEntee Report (2007)highlighted the huge amounts of relevant documentation that have gone missing from the Garda files and the fact that it is impossible to determine whether further documentation may also be missing due to massive failures in the Garda document management system of the time. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is therefore impossible to ascertain with any degree of certainty from Garda records why the Garda investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings was wound down less than three months after the bombings. Serious questions thus remain regarding the investigation.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Most disturbingly however, it was acknowledged by the authors in all the inquiries that they had been significantly restricted in their investigations by the non-cooperation of the British authorities. [/FONT]

Without accessing crucial documents held by these authorities, deeply worrying questions remain unanswered for the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/CommissionOfInvestigationFinalReport.pdf

An Claidheamh

realies wrote: »

.

It was repeatedly stated in the days following the bombing that any Irish citizen who had even entertained the thought of supporting the IRA's contemporary campaign was every bit as guilty of the slaughter of the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings as were those who had, cold-bloodedly and without any warning, planned and carried out the atrocity.

.

They did of course because they were spineless. If the Irish govt helped the IRA bomb London, would the British govt give out to British people supporting the loyalists? The Irish govt needed a reason to give out to the victims.

In fact, they originally blamed the IRA for the atrocity to buy time.

And the media at that time and now all let them.

An Claidheamh

touts wrote: »

Well if we apply the same conditions for definitions of High Treason

"Collaborated with enemies of the Irish state"
"Met with XXXX representatives behind the atrocity"
"Meeting was kept secret"
"Terrorist attack on our citizens and democracy"
"XXX were indeed behind the bomb and other murders, yet would not cooperate with the investigation".
"why is a politician who is implicated in the murder of Irish citizens in our Republic not in prison"

Then Gerry Adams and most of the Sinn Fein will be facing a firing squad in the morning for their meetings with IRA members (nevermind their possible membership of said IRA) at a time when the IRA wanted to overthrow the democratic Irish Republic and replace it with a socialist dictatorship.

After them several members of the current government would be in jail for their meetings and active association with those in the old Workers Party who headed to Moscow in the 70s and 80s to get funding for a possible communist coup and dictatorship in Ireland.

And lets not forgot those in the last government who met with and served under individuals who took part in illegal gun running to the aforementioned IRA.

Paddy Cooney might find a long queue ahead of him to get his day in the showtrials for all those who met with those who committed crimes against the Irish state and people!

Actually IRA members in the Republic who carried out crimes tended to be arrested and charged, same as the UK.

You seem to think it's alright to cover up another country bombing ours. Why, because they could not control what they helped start in NI?

That's the whole point of the D and M victims.

An Claidheamh

Garret Fitzgerald very openly allowed armed SAS men in the Republic go free, after they were caught trying to plant a bomb. He interfered with the justice system.
They went back across the border to terrorise civilians.

Blood was on his hands, yet he's called "Garret the Good".

Sponge Bob

Emmm the sas didn't explode a bomb before they were set loose so what are you on about this time.

round tower huntsman

a shamefull shamefull cowardly response by our gov at the time. yes i'd agree. treason.

Sunnyisland

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Emmm the sas didn't explode a bomb before they were set loose so what are you on about this time.

AT 10.40pm on May 5 1976 SAS soldiers Illisoni Ligairi and John Lawson were stopped at an Irish army/Garda checkpoint on the Flagstaff Road between Newry and Omeath.The SAS men, driving a Triumph 2000 and in civilian clothes, were armed with two Browning pistols and two Sterling submachine guns.

Four hours later six more SAS men in two cars were arrested at the same checkpoint after also "misreading" their maps.All six were heavily armed, the weaponry including a pump-action shotgun and a dagger. They refused to hand over their weapons until their cars were surrounded by Irish soldiers.

The next day all eight appeared at the Special Criminal Court in Dublin on charges of possession of fire-arms without certificates with intent to endanger life.The charges carried a maximum sentence of 20 years imprisonment.
The arrests came at a time when allegations of security force involvement in attacks in the Republic were at an all-time high.

Former British army intelligence officer Fred Holroyd would later claim that Captain Robert Nairac, who operated undercover, had admitted taking part in the murder of IRA man John Green at a farm in Castleblaney in the Republic in January 1975.

Confidential government papers now reveal that the SAS soldiers were questioned about three people found murdered in suspicious circumstances in the Republic at that time.One of those was forestry worker Seamus Ludlow, whose body had been found near Dundalk four days before the SAS arrests.

The report recently published by Mr Justice Henry Barron confirms that the SAS soldiers were also questioned about the Dublin Monaghan bombings that killed 33 people in 1974.

There was a very very dirty war played out in Ireland and it will be years before the truth if ever comes out.

The Idyll Race

"Thundering bollocks and a fúcking disgrace"

We could do with more politicians like that.

The Idyll Race

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald very openly allowed armed SAS men in the Republic go free, after they were caught trying to plant a bomb. He interfered with the justice system.
They went back across the border to terrorise civilians.

Blood was on his hands, yet he's called "Garret the Good".

Plenty of 'Ra men went free through our court system, I'd say you were about even on that.

allthedoyles

Can't understand how you could expect anyone to be charged with treason , with evidence based on a tv programme .

An Claidheamh

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Plenty of 'Ra men went free through our court system, I'd say you were about even on that.

Typical spineless lackey response. What does that have to do with anything?

The Irish Defence Forces are our army, under instructions from our govt, it's not my fault if "plenty of Ra' men went free".

The IRA were not our problem, another country's army are. Our army did not terrorise London.

An Claidheamh

allthedoyles wrote: »

Can't understand how you could expect anyone to be charged with treason , with evidence based on a tv programme .

It's not like the DPP of the time or Oireachtas had/have any inclination to.

(Incidentally, TV programmes provide evidence all the time, clerical child abuse, whistleblowing, and the Guildford Four were released due to an investigation by ITV)

An Claidheamh

realies wrote: »

AT 10.40pm on May 5 1976 SAS soldiers Illisoni Ligairi and John Lawson were stopped at an Irish army/Garda checkpoint on the Flagstaff Road between Newry and Omeath.The SAS men, driving a Triumph 2000 and in civilian clothes, were armed with two Browning pistols and two Sterling submachine guns.

Four hours later six more SAS men in two cars were arrested at the same checkpoint after also "misreading" their maps.All six were heavily armed, the weaponry including a pump-action shotgun and a dagger. They refused to hand over their weapons until their cars were surrounded by Irish soldiers.

The next day all eight appeared at the Special Criminal Court in Dublin on charges of possession of fire-arms without certificates with intent to endanger life.The charges carried a maximum sentence of 20 years imprisonment.
The arrests came at a time when allegations of security force involvement in attacks in the Republic were at an all-time high.

Former British army intelligence officer Fred Holroyd would later claim that Captain Robert Nairac, who operated undercover, had admitted taking part in the murder of IRA man John Green at a farm in Castleblaney in the Republic in January 1975.

Confidential government papers now reveal that the SAS soldiers were questioned about three people found murdered in suspicious circumstances in the Republic at that time.One of those was forestry worker Seamus Ludlow, whose body had been found near Dundalk four days before the SAS arrests.

The report recently published by Mr Justice Henry Barron confirms that the SAS soldiers were also questioned about the Dublin Monaghan bombings that killed 33 people in 1974.

There was a very very dirty war played out in Ireland and it will be years before the truth if ever comes out.

As I recall, the SAS were only charged and fined for stealing someones car or van. Thanks to our govt. Soon after they went back over the border, more murders of innocent civilians by the aforementioned and their colleagues. Thanks to FG, the law and order party.



These things, of course, were openly talked about when the state papers for those years were released some years ago. Common knowledge.

Sponge Bob

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald very openly allowed armed SAS men in the Republic go free, after they were caught trying to plant a bomb. He interfered with the justice system.
They went back across the border to terrorise civilians.

Blood was on his hands, yet he's called "Garret the Good".

When were SAS operatives caught planting a bomb OR with bomb materials in the South??

I am aware that armed SAS men were caught south of the border.

The Idyll Race

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Typical spineless lackey response. What does that have to do with anything?

The Irish Defence Forces are our army, under instructions from our govt, it's not my fault if "plenty of Ra' men went free".

The IRA were not our problem, another country's army are. Our army did not terrorise London.

Spineless lackey, you are hilarious. By the way there is only one Oglaigh na hEireann, all other imposters should be interned.

getzls

An Claidheamh wrote: »

They did of course because they were spineless. If the Irish govt helped the IRA bomb London, would the British govt give out to British people supporting the loyalists? The Irish govt needed a reason to give out to the victims.

In fact, they originally blamed the IRA for the atrocity to buy time.

And the media at that time and now all let them.

The fact that some people believe is not proof. Where is the proof the British Goverment were part of this? Sounds like more Republican/ I.R.A. propaganda.

The Idyll Race

getzls wrote: »

The fact that some people believe is not proof. Where is the proof the British Goverment were part of this? Sounds like more Republican/ I.R.A. propaganda.

I read Joe Tiernan's book and it dissolves into a rant against Fintan O'Toole. In any case, violent Republicans know in their heart of hearts that they are wholly irrelevant to the People of Ireland, even if they pulled off another Omagh, and that is why there is so much impotent rage on this thread.

Sunnyisland

getzls wrote: »

The fact that some people believe is not proof. Where is the proof the British Government were part of this? Sounds like more Republican/ I.R.A. propaganda.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe if the British government opened there files on the case we would have many answers,So far they have refused, why ? Do you think the motion passed below by all parties in the dail is just republican/IRA propaganda ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As a consequence of the January 2008 Dáil debate on collusion, we worked with members of all parties to ensure the passage of a motion endorsing the Barron Reports. This motion was approved by the Dáil in July 2008, which calls on the British government to release all documents, relating to the atrocities that occurred in this jurisdiction, to an independent, international judicial figure. [/FONT]

dlofnep

The OP is making a sound and valid point, and the only opposition consists of whataboutery. I'd say things are pretty much consistent as always here.

getzls

dlofnep wrote: »

The OP is making a sound and valid point, and the only opposition consists of whataboutery. I'd say things are pretty much consistent as always here.

Is speculation now a sound and valid point?

Dubhlinner

Kevin Myers: The Miami Showband massacre was one of the most depraved atrocities of the Troubles

THE official confirmation by the Historical Enquiries Team of collusion in the Miami Showband massacre of 1975 should surprise no one. It was widely known that UDR members of the UVF were involved and there was no serious attempt at the time to cleanse the UDR of loyalist terrorists. This was an utter scandal.

But it doesn't stop there. Most of the UVF men responsible for the Miami massacre had probably been involved in the Dublin bombings the year before. Within a week of these bombings, I met a garda detective inspector in Dublin, who showed me a list of suspects. The only surname that I remember is Somerville, belonging to two UVF brothers, unspeakably evil associates of the supremely wicked Robin Jackson. I believe he too was one of the Dublin bombers.

However, the Dublin government chose not to seek the extradition of the UVF men who had caused the biggest loss of life in the Troubles. Quite simply, the State didn't want later to have to extradite IRA terrorists as a quid pro quo for having got the Dublin bombers. There is no documentary trail to prove this assertion, just missing files and conspicuously discreet inertia. Thereafter, the UVF felt they were immune to the rule of law; and they were right, were they not? Thus the Miami Showband massacre; in scale not the worst of the atrocities, but in its diabolical inventiveness against such a group of harmless and naïve young men, easily one of the most depraved.

Two UVF men, Wesley Somerville and Harris Boyle, were killed in the premature explosion as they put the bomb on board the showband's bus. In the butchery that followed, three young musicians were hunted down and murdered: Fran O'Toole, Tony Geraghty and Brian McCoy. Brian was the son of the Orange Grand Master for Tyrone and he was buried in Caledon. Nineteen years later, Brian's sister's husband, Eric Smyth, a former soldier, was murdered by the IRA. She lost her brother to the UVF, and her husband to the IRA: a very model of Irish ecumenism.

I know, beyond all doubt, that senior members of the British government, army and RUC were aware of the degree to which the UVF had penetrated the UDR in the Dungannon/Portadown area. But I also know that the governments of the Republic of Ireland failed to act on the terrorism threat. Throughout this time, members of the IRA army council, such as Daithi O'Connell and Ruairi O Bradaigh, were living at home and running the IRA like a lawful business. Thomas 'Slab' Murphy, who lived in Louth, was never once arrested throughout the Troubles. Successive governments of this Republic allowed the semi-autonomous IRA heartland of south Armagh to be extended across Cavan, Monaghan and Louth.

Over time, Shinners and their fellow-travellers sedulously created a new folklore about the Troubles, which is rapidly becoming the standard narrative of a carefully monitored, daily updated internet campaign. This runs as follows: the Troubles -- "the British war in Ireland" as Gerry Adams memorably called them in 'The Guardian' -- were either the creation of the British or of loyalists working with their collusion. In reply, the IRA conducted a largely gallant Human Rights Struggle, which was marred by a few unfortunate excesses.

No serious counter-narrative is being offered to these myths. Indeed, if anything, official amnesia now prevails. When recently giving evidence to the Smithwick Tribunal into garda collusion with the IRA in Dundalk, I testified that a garda had given information to the IRA about the investigations into the murders of the British ambassador Christopher Ewart-Biggs and the Northern Ireland Office official Judith Cooke. Counsel for An Garda Siochana subsequently took advice and later rose to rebut my allegation, declaring I had confused it with the case of a garda who had been convicted of assisting MI5. I insisted that I was right and that counsel had been misinformed, adding that the garda concerned -- whose name I had forgotten -- had appeared in court.

THE tribunal has now written to me, accepting that my claim was correct. But how is it that the name of Garda Patrick Kirby, traitor and fellow traveller of the IRA, who was convicted of passing on information to the IRA on January 8, 1978, is not a name that endures in infamy within the corporate memory of An Garda Siochana? Well, in much the same way that almost no one remembers that if the Dublin bombers had been extradited to this Republic, as they could and should have been, there would have been no Miami Showband massacre.

This article from last year I thought was very good. Admittedly one Myers hobby horses is criticising the role of the Irish state in relation to the IRA but I think he makes some valid points here

jbkenn

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Would Cooney not be dead now ?

No only still alive, but still has his hand in our pocket to the tune of €84,628.41 p.a. pension

SocSocPol

An Claidheamh wrote: »

After watching a repeat of the excellent TG4 series Brathadóirí, it once again shows that members of the Irish government of 1974, Fine Gael and Labour, collaborated with enemies of the Irish state.

This man, Paddy Cooney, who was our Minister for Justice at the time of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974, days later met with British representatives behind the atrocity to discuss Irish "co-operation" with their regime in the North.

This meeting was kept secret, the bombings were covered by the Fine Gael-Labour government of the time. Members included Liam Cosgrave, Garret Fitzgerald, Conor Cruise O'Brien, etc. All admitted the British were behind the terrorist attack on our citizens and democracy.

Yet, no prosecutions. An Oireachtas Committee in 2006, found that the British govt were indeed behind the bomb and other murders, yet would not cooperate with the investigation.

So now Mr Enda Kenny.
Now that we are aware of what happened as documented by TG4, after all this time, why is a politician who is implicated in the murder of Irish citizens in our Republic not in prison.

Or are you too a coward?

OP should learn a little about the law, the ONLY person who can instigate proceedings is the DPP, and rightly so. Furthermore their is no such offence as "High Trason" in Irish law.
The emotive nature of the post and the wild allegations and innuendo contained therin hardly amount to evidence, rather the OP's assertions appear based more on a highly subjective view of a very limited number of facts.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

I'm not sure how people are supposed to have a discussion about a video that most have not seen and that there are no links to. Considering the nature of the (very serious) allegations in this thread, I think there needs to be more supporting evidence than "I saw it on tv" - we have no way of knowing if this is just one person's interpretation of the show, or if this is what it actually said.

If someone can link to a transcript then maybe we can reconsider re-opening the thread, but as it stands, there are several posts here that, given that they are unsubstantiated, could be considered libelous (and have been deleted). So I'm just going to end things here.