Lots of cost questions re new extension

BoardsMember

Hi all. I'm trying to get my head around a new project that we hope to be undertaking in the next few months. We plan to build an extension onto the side of the house, where there will be a kitchen & sitting room, the sitting room element spanning between the new part, and an existing sitting room.

We have drawings done ages ago just out of interest that we're largely happy with, we got these done by a reputable architect. So, as I understand it, the next step would be to choose an architect for the build. And then the architect puts the job out to tender.

Ok, so the part I am struggling with is the bit from choosing the architect and putting it out to tender. I think we'd be trying to negotiate a project fee rather than a % of build cost with the architect. But the specification of everything is presumably determined by the architect, in conjunction with the client.

How, in practise, does this happen? For example, how do you decide which supplier for the pricier goods? e.g. if you want concertina doors rather than simple folding doors, or putting in a modern kettel type fireplace or whatever....there are so many suppliers. Can the client go off and research the ones they want, rather than limit themselves to the suppliers the architect is familiar with? And if so, at what stage does this need to happen?

Do most people use a QS? If so, at what stage do you engage with the QS? Would it be better to be guided by the QS in deciding what architect to use?

If anyone has any recommendations for architects or QSs maybe they could PM me.

Sorry for the rambling post. I suppose I am coming from the perspective of someone that gets engrossed in projects, and likes to research in detail what is used, what the choices are, what the specs are and the pro's & cons, and feel like I'm getting the max bang for my buck. So, from the outset, I want to be sure my choice of architect, QS, and builder is good.

kkelliher

BoardsMember wrote: »

Hi all. I'm trying to get my head around a new project that we hope to be undertaking in the next few months. We plan to build an extension onto the side of the house, where there will be a kitchen & sitting room, the sitting room element spanning between the new art, and an existing sitting room.

We have drawings that we're happy with, we got these done by a reputable architect. So, as I understand it, the next step would be to choose an architect. And the architect puts the job out to tender.

Ok, so the part I am struggling with is the bit from choosing the architect and putting it out to tender. I think we'd be trying to negotiate a project fee rather than a % of build cost with the architect. But the specification of everything is presumably determined by the architect, in conjunction with the client.

How, in practise, does this happen? For example, how do you decide which supplier for the pricier goods? e.g. if you want concertina doors rather than simple folding doors, there are so many suppliers. Can the client go off and research the ones they want, rather than limit themselves to the suppliers the architect is familiar with?

Do most people use a QS? If so, at what stage do you engage with the QS? Would it be better to be guided by the QS in deciding what architect to us?

If anyone has any recommendations for architects or QSs maybe they could PM me.

Sorry for the rambling post. I suppose I am coming from the perspective of someone that gets engrossed in projects, and likes to research in detail what is used, what the choices are, what the specs are and the pro's & cons, and feel like I'm getting the max bang for my buck. So, from the outset, I want to be sure my choice of architect, QS, and builder is good.

In every instance I am inclined to say yes as you appear to have the main idea of the process.

As a QS I always advise clients to personally choose as much of the finishes and specification as possible as at the end of the day when all is done and professionals are long gone, you are the on living with the finish and product choice. Budget of course is always an issue and in some cases those you put around you will be able to give you options on items you want in order to achieve budget.

I would advise getting a QS as early as possible as a budget can be put in place from which the architect and you yourself can work with in design adn selection of each and every item. Your bank (if required) will also now probably request a costing from a QS in any event.

It always suprises me when I do the initial budget, how far above budget it is based on initial sketch designs and peoples want list, when you actually list it all down. At least if you have a budget to start with it restrains everyones imagination in respect to choice v budget.

Best of luck with your project.

BoardsMember

Thanks for the response kk.

This part doesn't surprise me at all, I have a huge list of ancilliary things I want to get done in the house while the builders are in, I am terrified at what the end cost will be. So your confirmation of enlisting a QS as early as possible is great, thanks!

kkelliher wrote: »

It always suprises me when I do the initial budget, how far above budget it is based on initial sketch designs and peoples want list, when you actually list it all down. At least if you have a budget to start with it restrains everyones imagination in respect to choice v budget.

The budget will be the hard part, we will probably have excess cash than is required, which is great, but we dont want to burn all our rainy day fund/savings. I suppose it is a question of choosing what we need, rather than getting carried away, looking at the total cost, and trying to strike the balance between having a great house with a nice finish and some nice things in it, to being too tight and not being happy with the end product. The QS on the RTE show Room to Improve looks like someone you would like to have in your corner!

fclauson

We used a QS on our new build - just to draw up a bill of quantities - has prooved absolutly invaluable.

Where we have deviated from the original spec then he raises a variation based on the BOQ - so for exampel an extra studd wall we had was priced before work started as per the BOQ and then haggled a little and then agreed.

This allowed us to keep total tabs on cost

For an existing build where you have "extra jobs" get each one priced/agreed before you give the go ahead.

On choosing windows etc - we had PC sums in for these which were best guesses at the time - we did our own research and then they became a "nominated sub contractor" under the master contract with the builder.

BoardsMember

fclauson wrote: »

We used a QS on our new build - just to draw up a bill of quantities - has prooved absolutly invaluable.

Where we have deviated from the original spec then he raises a variation based on the BOQ - so for exampel an extra studd wall we had was priced before work started as per the BOQ and then haggled a little and then agreed.

This allowed us to keep total tabs on cost

For an existing build where you have "extra jobs" get each one priced/agreed before you give the go ahead.

On choosing windows etc - we had PC sums in for these which were best guesses at the time - we did our own research and then they became a "nominated sub contractor" under the master contract with the builder.

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. So, the example of windows in your situation, the best guess was a part of the estimated total cost, but not part of the builder cost, the builder was asked to leave defined width & height spaces for a third party to install the glazing. What are PC sums?

kkelliher

BoardsMember wrote: »

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. So, the example of windows in your situation, the best guess was a part of the estimated total cost, but not part of the builder cost, the builder was asked to leave defined width & height spaces for a third party to install the glazing. What are PC sums?

A PC SUM or Prime Cost Sum to give it its official name is a value of money that you are specifically telling the builder to allow in his tender and subsequent contract for a specified item or company to carry out works.

IT is generally used for specialist items or products where you want to be very specific with the product you want. If you take windows as an example. You tell the builder to allow a PC SUM of €10,000 for the supply and installation of windows. He does this is in his tender. You then come along and nominate a company who you want to install the windows. The builder then goes and gets this company to do it. If it turns out that the windows cost €12,000 then you pay extra, if less you pay less.