Any tips and tricks for negotiating with a Dealer?

Birroc

I am looking for a new used car but the Dealers seem be overpriced and reluctant to negotiate unless I am doing something wrong.
I have looked at a couple of private sales too but they fell through and private sales make me nervous.

Any tips on what to do/say?

Do you have a trade in?

CreepingDeath

I imagine there's certain times, eg. the end of the month, end of sales quarter when they're more desperate to make a sale for bonuses/monthly figures.

Also, if you see a car you like say at €5500, then go in and tell them you've a budget of €4500 but that you really like that car.
Make it seem like you're stretching your budget for it.

I'm sure there's other tips though.
You have to be realistic, you're not going to get something for half price.

Birroc

RoverJames wrote: »

Do you have a trade in?

Nope

username123

Last time I asked a sales rep in work for advice on this! What it comes down to is who is willing to walk away. The car dealer will walk away if you are going way below where he makes any profit. But you can just as easily walk away as well.

Last time (using actual numbers), the car I liked was 11k. The dealer was willing to take my valueless fiesta against it he opened bargaining at 9,500.

I offered 7. He said he could go to 9. I offered 7,500. He said no, absolutely not, and I said, 'ok thanks' and began to walk off. He said he would go to 8,700. I said 8,000 and that was it, not gonna budge. He said no. I said 'ok thanks' and kept on walking, he followed me to my car and said if Id go to 8,100 we had a deal.

I was happy with it. He started at 9.5 and I started at 7 so we landed closer to my opening offer than his, plus I was happy with the car.

Incidentally, I told my sales rep friend the story after and he said I should have opened at 6

coylemj

OP, there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to secondhand cars. The car might be priced for a quick sale in which case the sales guy will have very little fat to negotiate. Some cars on dealer lots do have silly prices because there's always the punter who likes the colour and trim combination and he's prepared to pay a premium for the package he's looking for.

You need to suss out the price he is asking vs. the market. The fact that you're looking at that car suggests that you like the price which in turn means it's a competitive price and there probably isn't much to negotiate about.

kaku777

coylemj wrote: »

OP, there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to secondhand cars. The car might be priced for a quick sale in which case the sales guy will have very little fat to negotiate. Some cars on dealer lots do have silly prices because there's always the punter who likes the colour and trim combination and he's prepared to pay a premium for the package he's looking for.

You need to suss out the price he is asking vs. the market. The fact that you're looking at that car suggests that you like the price which in turn means it's a competitive price and there probably isn't much to negotiate about.

Do not listen to this guy, hes prob a car dealer.

There is always room for negotiating. There is no such thing as a reasonably priced car, some are just more reasonable then others.

Drummerboy08

kaku777 wrote: »

Do not listen to this guy, hes prob a car dealer.

There is always room for negotiating. There is no such thing as a reasonably priced car, some are just more reasonable then others.

Wow, what's it like under that tinfoil hat of yours?

Anan1

kaku777 wrote: »

Do not listen to this guy, hes prob a car dealer.

There is always room for negotiating. There is no such thing as a reasonably priced car, some are just more reasonable then others.

I'm an ex car salesman, and i'm telling you that he's right.

MetzgerMeister

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm an ex car salesman, and i'm telling you that he's right.

How long did it take to get your soul back once you left that job? :pac:

Anan1

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

How long did it take to get your soul back once you left that job? :pac:

If you think car salesmen are dodgy, wait until you meet the punters..

MetzgerMeister

Anan1 wrote: »

If you think car salesmen are dodgy, wait until you meet the punters..

LOL

AltAccount

kaku777 wrote: »

Do not listen to this guy, hes prob a car dealer.

There is always room for negotiating. There is no such thing as a reasonably priced car, some are just more reasonable then others.

What are you talking about? A less reasonably priced car is otherwise known as poor value. How does your post even constitute a valid opinion, never mind useful advice?

kaku777

AltAccount wrote: »

What are you talking about? A less reasonably priced car is otherwise known as poor value. How does your post even constitute a valid opinion, never mind useful advice?

My advice is always negotiate.

The dealer is always making money on the asking price, how much he makes is up to you. There is always room for negotiation.

coylemj

kaku777 wrote: »

My advice is always negotiate.

The dealer is always making money on the asking price, how much he makes is up to you. There is always room for negotiation.

He also always makes money on the end price, it's called business.

IrishZeus

I work as a "specialist" sales rep (or so they tell me!) and the one piece of advice I would give you is to get as much info from the dealer as you can - and always use open ended questions.

e.g. if you find out the car has been on his forecourt for 12 months, he may be more willing to take a hit and get rid of the car as opposed to a car that has just arrived.

Ask "Where do you stand on the price?" as opposed to "Would you take XX amount for it?" (Mentioning an amount indicates your level of budget.)

Essentially what I'm saying is get as much info as possible whilst giving away as little as possible. At the end of the day he will have a price limit he will not pass - its up to you to discover that limit and get useful information to bargain him down as close as possible to it

djimi

kaku777 wrote: »

My advice is always negotiate.

The dealer is always making money on the asking price, how much he makes is up to you. There is always room for negotiation.

No, how much he makes is up to him. Most dealers will have room to negotiate so by all means try your luck, but there is always a point where they will walk away, and for some dealers or with certain cars that point will be a lot higher than with others.

OP how much negotiating room you have depends on the actual car and price. If its a popular model at a decent price then Id say youll have very little room for negotiation, as the dealer knows that if you dont pay the asking price then someone else almost certainly will. However if its a less desirable car then the dealer will probably bend over backwards just to get it off the forecourt (I once got a 9 year old Accord that was marked at €7k for €2500k and a crashed Civic worth about €1500!). Always chance your arm but know what to expect in advance.

kaku777

coylemj wrote: »

He also always makes money on the end price, it's called business.

Exactly and if the car is always priced to make him money....there is always room for negotiating.

Its a buyers market these days, do not fall for this "priced to sell quickly" rubbish.

Anan1

kaku777 wrote: »

Exactly and if the car is always priced to make him money....there is always room for negotiating.

That doesn't necessarily follow. A keenly-priced car will sell fast regardless of how much money the dealer is making.

djimi

kaku777 wrote: »

Exactly and if the car is always priced to make him money....there is always room for negotiating.

Its a buyers market these days, do not fall for this "priced to sell quickly" rubbish.

I think the point Coyle is trying to make is that the dealer is not going to give the car away. He buys in a car for €7k and needs to make €1000 off it in order to maintain enough of a profit margin to pay the bills and pay his staff then hes not going under €8k, for you or for anyone. Noone is going to make a loss of a sale.

Likewise if he is confident of getting the asking price for the car then why would he sell it to someone who is offering less? As a customer by all means as the question but there are times when no means no and thats all there is to it.

Fergus Curley

Your greatest asset is being prepared to walk away, to stay emotionally detatched but make your position clear to the sales man without getting him upset. If he does not get a better offer he knows he can come back to you.
essentially its a game of poker!

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

I think the point Coyle is trying to make is that the dealer is not going to give the car away. He buys in a car for €7k and needs to make €1000 off it in order to maintain enough of a profit margin to pay the bills and pay his staff then hes not going under €8k, for you or for anyone. Noone is going to make a loss of a sale.

Likewise if he is confident of getting the asking price for the car then why would he sell it to someone who is offering less? As a customer by all means as the question but there are times when no means no and thats all there is to it.

Ish. I've blown the odd car out at a loss when the market turned against me. The seller wants to get as much as the market will bear for the car, how much profit (or loss) this will leave him with is largely determined by how much he paid for it. For a buyers offer to be accepted, the seller must not feel confident that they can get more elsewhere. One more detail - personality counts. I always made more of an effort for people I liked.

Gurgle

Birroc wrote: »

private sales make me nervous.
Any tips on what to do/say?

Have a read through this forum and peoples' experience with dealers.
Get over the nervousness.

Get someone to give the car a thorough inspection before even thinking about making an offer. (This applies to both dealer and private sales)

Dealers:
Want as much money as possible
Know how to hide faults with cheap tricks
Will lie through their teeth at every opportunity to make a sale
Are experienced hagglers
Inflate their price to cash in on the perceived security of buying from a dealer

Private sellers:
Want the car off their driveway because they're getting something newer and/or better.
Don't want to spend money preparing it for sale
Cut their asking price because they think they're competing with the perceived security of buying from a dealer
Are always willing to accept less than their asking price

-edit- the above is not absolute. You will find private sellers doing the 'cute hoor' bit and dealers who just want to earn an honest day's pay doing an honest day's work

djimi

Gurgle wrote: »

Have a read through this forum and peoples' experience with dealers.
Get over the nervousness.

Get someone to give the car a thorough inspection before even thinking about making an offer. (This applies to both dealer and private sales)

Dealers:
Want as much money as possible
Know how to hide faults with cheap tricks
Will lie through their teeth at every opportunity to make a sale
Are experienced hagglers
Inflate their price to cash in on the perceived security of buying from a dealer

Private sellers:
Want the car off their driveway because they're getting something newer and/or better.
Don't want to spend money preparing it for sale
Cut their asking price because they think they're competing with the perceived security of buying from a dealer
Are always willing to accept less than their asking price

The flipside to that is that the massive advantage of buying from a dealer is that if something goes wrong then you are entitled to some comeback; there is no protection with a private sale. That alone would swing a lot people in favour of buying from a dealer. Even with the best will in the world getting the car checked over in advance is not going to highlight every potential problem.

Gurgle

djimi wrote: »

The flipside to that is that the massive advantage of buying from a dealer is that if something goes wrong then you are entitled to some comeback

This is true, but in my experience (always in the €2k to €5k region) the saving made buying privately has always been enough to cover anything but the most disastrous faults.

Purely anecdotal evidence: In my extended family over the last decade its been maybe 50:50 between dealers and private sales. Ignoring the price difference, in simple terms of who ended up with the more reliable car, private sales wins hands down. This has lead me to the 'who knows how to hide problems' conclusion.

coylemj

djimi wrote: »

The flipside to that is that the massive advantage of buying from a dealer is that if something goes wrong then you are entitled to some comeback; there is no protection with a private sale. That alone would swing a lot people in favour of buying from a dealer. Even with the best will in the world getting the car checked over in advance is not going to highlight every potential problem.

The 'massive advantage' as you call it only applies to a main dealer i.e. a dealer with a franchise because there have been umpteen tales on this forum of people buying from an independent dealer and being give the run around or being simply told to fcuk off (sometimes accompanied by the threat of violence) when they came back looking to get a fault fixed under the supposed 'warranty'.

In many cases people are better off buying private because they are cutting out the dealer but you need to be aware of the pitfalls, the principal one being that the car can have outstanding finance on it so you need to to some checks before parting with your cash.

djimi

coylemj wrote: »

The 'massive advantage' as you call it only applies to a main dealer i.e. a dealer with a franchise because there have been umpteen tales on this forum of people buying from an independent dealer and being give the run around or being simply told to fcuk off (sometimes accompanied by the threat of violence) when they came back looking to get a fault fixed under the supposed 'warranty'.

In many cases people are better off buying private because they are cutting out the dealer but you need to be aware of the pitfalls, the principal one being that the car can have outstanding finance on it so you need to to some checks before parting with your cash.

In fairness, for everyone one horror story you hear on a forum, there are 10/100/1000 people that you will not hear of who have to bring cars back to a dealer and get the problem sorted witout issue.

Also the warranty/comeback applies to anyone who is deemed to be a car dealer (who sells more than 2 cars a year I think it is?), not just to main dealers. Not every independant dealer is a cowboy to deal with.

This is true, but in my experience (always in the €2k to €5k region) the saving made buying privately has always been enough to cover anything but the most disastrous faults.

Purely anecdotal evidence: In my extended family over the last decade its been maybe 50:50 between dealers and private sales. Ignoring the price difference, in simple terms of who ended up with the more reliable car, private sales wins hands down. This has lead me to the 'who knows how to hide problems' conclusion.

Its a fair point, and Im sure that in a lot of cases the extra money spent at a dealer does not equate to the potential problems that might arise. But you are buying that piece of mind that if something does go wrong at least you have an avenue to persue, which you do not have with a private sale. How much that is worth to you depends on the person themselves. Personally I dont mind taking the chance of buying privately as I have enough people who I trust to give me a good assessment of the car in advance and if something goes wrong I can call on. However if it was someone like my mother that was buying a car Im sure she would much prefer to pay that bit extra that a dealer might charge for the knowledge that if something does go wrong she can drive/tow it back to the dealer and expect to get it sorted (or have some legal recourse if they start to act up).

Im not against the idea of buying privately, nor am I suggesting that people should always buy from a dealer; I just feel that sometimes people on here dismiss the idea/forget that for someone who know little or nothing about cars it is not always the best idea to buy from someone who probably knows equally little about cars, and from who they have absolutely zero comeback if something goes wrong.

Gurgle

djimi wrote: »

Not every independant dealer is a cowboy to deal with.

Absolutely.
If anything the smaller the outfit the better, especially outside Dublin. They have a limited customer pool and a reputation to protect.

Its the bigger independent dealers I wouldn't trust to buy a rusty nail from.
I know I can't name any here, but talk about selling a sow's ear as a silk purse... obvious write-off resurrections, worn out wrecks with 70k on the clock, tax disk ran out 2 years ago but 'Its 100%, in everyday use. We took it in last week as a trade in'. And all this at 50% over the private price for a genuine car.

you are buying that piece of mind that if something does go wrong at least you have an avenue to persue

This really depends on your price range. I guess if I was spending €20k I'd want to be damn sure of this comeback.

AltAccount

kaku777 wrote: »

My advice is always negotiate.

The dealer is always making money on the asking price, how much he makes is up to you. There is always room for negotiation.

So would you prefer 20% discount a massively overpriced car, or 5% off the cheapest in the country?