Fire alarm - no of inspections

dingding

Moderators apologies in advance if this is posted in the wrong place I looked in alarms and CCTV and did not see any relevant posts. I am hoping a sparks here working in the relevant area will be able to advise.

I got a quote for a fire alarm system maintenance for a block of 9 apartments, all apartments have external doors and there are no internal corridors.

2 options were offered one was 2 visits per year and the other was 4 visits per year.

Would 2 visits comply with the relevant requirements for block insurance.

Why would they have given 2 options in the quote.

I am not dealing with the alarm company myself I was just forwarded the correspondence so I don't know what discussions took place.

2011

dingding wrote: »

2 options were offered one was 2 visits per year and the other was 4 visits per year.

Would 2 visits comply with the relevant requirements for block insurance.

I don't know to be honest. I guess it depends on the conditions attached to the insurance policy that is in place.
I would suggest that you ask the insurance company to ensure that you comply or you may find that the policy will be null & void.
It may be prudent to get the answer in writing too

dingding

Thanks, good advice.

rum and coke

is3218 states 4 visits per year.....2 visits does not comply.

2011

For more details on the type of inspections required for "I.S. 3218:2009 Fire Detection and Fire Alarm Systems for Buildings - System Design, Installation, Servicing and Maintenance" have a look at the
Guidance on Statutory Inspections Scheduling Tool. It details exactly what check

Dardania

If all of the apartments have external doors, then do they not all have indivudal (per apartment) fire alarms, rather than an interconnected (accross a block) fire alarm system?

2011

Dardania wrote: »

If all of the apartments have external doors, then do they not all have indivudal (per apartment) fire alarms, rather than an interconnected (accross a block) fire alarm system?

Normally there is a fire alarm system installed for the entier building. A fire in one appartment has the potential to spread to other appartments.

In addition many appartments also have a seperate stanad alone mains powered individual somke and/or detector.

.G.

2011 wrote: »

Normally there is a fire alarm system installed for the entier building. A fire in one appartment has the potential to spread to other appartments.

In addition many appartments also have a seperate stanad alone mains powered individual somke and/or detector.

Yep spot on. Interlinked system for the block and standard mains detectors per apartment

dingding

Dardania wrote: »

If all of the apartments have external doors, then do they not all have indivudal (per apartment) fire alarms, rather than an interconnected (accross a block) fire alarm system?

There is a central alarm panel with sensors in each apartment. From memory there are smoke detectors oly.

dingding

rum and coke wrote: »

is3218 states 4 visits per year.....2 visits does not comply.

That is what I thought also. But a company quoted to visits a year to comply with the relevent standard. As well as a 4 visit option.

Not sure how they can achieve compliance with 2 visits.

Dardania

2011 wrote: »

Normally there is a fire alarm system installed for the entier building. A fire in one appartment has the potential to spread to other appartments.

In addition many appartments also have a seperate stanad alone mains powered individual somke and/or detector.

But there is no common internal space for the landlord system... It is usually presumed that the passive fire suppression methods (i.e. fire compartmentalisation) are sufficient in that case...

So for the OP, the quote may be more accurate - I believe IS 3218 doesn't apply.

Do you own the apartments, and are letting them? If so, the relevant letting laws is what is important for you...

M cebee

Dardania wrote: »

But there is no common internal space for the landlord system... It is usually presumed that the passive fire suppression methods (i.e. fire compartmentalisation) are sufficient in that case...

So for the OP, the quote may be more accurate - I believe IS 3218 doesn't apply.

Do you own the apartments, and are letting them? If so, the relevant letting laws is what is important for you...

doesn't sound right-i'm not too well up on it though

is that the case?- that fire can be confined to an apartment here?

dingding

Dardania wrote: »

But there is no common internal space for the landlord system... It is usually presumed that the passive fire suppression methods (i.e. fire compartmentalisation) are sufficient in that case...

So for the OP, the quote may be more accurate - I believe IS 3218 doesn't apply.

Do you own the apartments, and are letting them? If so, the relevant letting laws is what is important for you...

I own an apartment that I have rented out. It is a small development of 9 apartments and I am the chairperson of the management company.

There is a room under an external stairs. There is no shared internal space, all the upstairs apartments are reached by a raised walkway.

Each apartment has a smoke alarm and a sounder.

I am anxious that the development complies with the fire regulations obviously. The management agent would not inspire confidence in this matter.

Each apartment would have concrete internal walls, and the floor between the down stairs and upstairs apartments is concrete, in this case I would imagine as a previous poster said there is fire containment within the apartment.

I think at this stage I will get the 4 inspections per year as they are only charging 100 per visit.

M cebee

i think maybe? that makes sense after all

if you applied the same logic to terraced houses and semi d's

and even commercial units of similar build


there wouldn't be the same risk of spread of smoke and fire as an apartment block with shared corridors

Dardania

dingding wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

But there is no common internal space for the landlord system... It is usually presumed that the passive fire suppression methods (i.e. fire compartmentalisation) are sufficient in that case...

So for the OP, the quote may be more accurate - I believe IS 3218 doesn't apply.

Do you own the apartments, and are letting them? If so, the relevant letting laws is what is important for you...

I own an apartment that I have rented out. It is a small development of 9 apartments and I am the chairperson of the management company.

There is a room under an external stairs. There is no shared internal space, all the upstairs apartments are reached by a raised walkway.

Each apartment has a smoke alarm and a sounder.

I am anxious that the development complies with the fire regulations obviously. The management agent would not inspire confidence in this matter.

Each apartment would have concrete internal walls, and the floor between the down stairs and upstairs apartments is concrete, in this case I would imagine as a previous poster said there is fire containment within the apartment.

I think at this stage I will get the 4 inspections per year as they are only charging 100 per visit.

In which case, the fire alarm system for each dwelling is solely the responsibility of the owner, and is not a management issue.

2011

Dardania wrote: »

In which case, the fire alarm system for each dwelling is solely the responsibility of the owner, and is not a management issue.

In modern appartments as a general rule there would be a fire alarm system for the entire block even if there are no common areas.

Stoner

If they are "own door" units with the proper segregated fire compartments there is no need for a containing land lord system IMHO. This would be similar to duplex units etc. where an open fully ventilated stairwell leads to some units with the remaining units directly accessible from the street, i.e people can escape quickly and smoke from fires not in your unit is ventilated away.
These things usually come down to a fire officers opinion, I've seen many systems and layouts and by the time the plans have bottomed out the whole landlord system, even though there may be a shared bin storage area has gone away, the attention/expense is focused on maximizing the detection within the living areas, fully linked up combined heat/sounders and smoke/sounders etc. The bin storage areas usually end up being very well ventilated and like a ventilated car park the fire officer may decide that it is low risk as the smoke will be ventilated away.

That said the units, if new, should have detection/sounders in the hallway, kitchen main living areas etc. These units still need to be maintained by the landlord but only to standard domestic regulations.

If there was a landlord system it would only usually be a heat detector in the hallway and a sounder both fed from the main landlord system, with the same domestic installation outlined above. if the units are large more sounders may be required from the landlord system. The fire officer will have an opinion on same. Heat detectors are used in the living areas for landlord detection so that burning toast etc does not set off the whole block, this is a cause of a lot of hassle, particularly if you have say 100 apartments and a detector in one is faulty or you cant get in to carryout the tests as you don't have the keys or permission to get into the apartment.

Therefore the primary function of a landlord system is to notify people that there is a fire in a shared corridor/area or basement, the internal living coverage is still very much dependent on the detection within the apartment. If there are no shared areas and people have direct access to the outside then there is really not much use for a landlord system, IMHO. People can escape directly to fresh air, there is nowhere for smoke to build up, the required fire compartments are in place and each unit has decent internal protection. Smoke is the biggest danger so a fire officer will be looking for areas that form part of escape routes and are at risk of smoke build up. The heat detectors that are used to link an apartment to a landlord system are not as sensitive as the smoke detectors that are used within each standalone unit. They operate as their name indicates, they do not detect smoke the early warning system, only the rate of rise/heat.

It would be completely different if there were covered corridors/areas or shared basement car parks.

I can see it continuing this way, better fire compartments and more internal detection, in the UK many developments have no landlord system in the living areas at all, but each unit has more or less its own conventional fire alarm system, with everything linked back to a panel/BGU, with a decent fire rated front door.

One of the reasons why units are designed to be "own door" is to cut down on running costs like fire alarms maintenance, CCTV, Intercoms lighting and emergency lighting etc.
You could always ask for the fire alarm strategy, there should be one, it might be a very simple document but your development could have have been designed to have a simple approach to dealing with the problem. If you get one you could compare it to the development as it stands now and look for differences if any.

cast_iron

dingding wrote: »

I think at this stage I will get the 4 inspections per year as they are only charging 100 per visit.

Why not ring the crowd offering 2 visits and ask them how they think it complies?

garytopp

Fire alarm systems in buildings with sleeping accommadation ( Apartments ) must be serviced a min of 4 times per year (required by law)
Any supposedly qualified contractor that quotes to do it only twice per year is not competant to do the job and at the very least just does not know the regulations as well as he should.