Something going on with IE Dublin-Sligo?

dowlingm

An RTE News article popped into my RSS feed but 404s when I click on it.

The Longford Leader certainly thinks something is up

corktina

"Journeys beyond the commuter belt on the 19:05 would be very low, indicating a limited demand for late evening services at present"


fairly subtle hint there....

Sponge Bob

If the last Sligo train leaving Connolly at 19:05 and crawling into arriving in Sligo at 22:05 is dropped then the last train to LONGFORD itself goes too as it is the self same 19:05 ex Connolly.

This would mean the last train to Longford is the Bray - Longford service which departs Connolly at 18:18 and arrives in Longford over two hours later at 20:22

As I can see the 19:00 ex Sligo getting chopped too they may be planning on announcing a sub 2 hour Connolly - Longford service as in whoops de doops.

Barry Kenny is probably testing the 'air' among the myriad FG backbenchers up Sligo/Longford way.

Victor

Leaf-fall season is coming, expect severe delays to evening services at least a few times per week.

Mycroft H

I need the 19.05 service to get home. Anyone that wants to travel beyond Maynooth to get home is going to be affected by that.

kieran4003

The 19:05 should be grand. It is the 17:15 and more so, the 18:18 Longford services that look shakey to me.

Judgement Day

The Sligo line west of Maynooth is a dead duck and has been on IE's hit list for years. They nearly closed it in the early 1990s - I was on a protest march to the Dail about it - but there will be fewer marchers next time.

Sponge Bob

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Sligo line west of Maynooth is a dead duck and has been on IE's hit list for years. They nearly closed it in the early 1990s - I was on a protest march to the Dail about it - but there will be fewer marchers next time.

West of Mullingar I would have thought, but perhaps west of Maynooth. FROM HERE ( October 1997) . Sure it was EU money, not ours.

Minister for Public Enterprise (Mrs. O'Rourke):



The Dublin-Sligo line is included in an EU co-financed investment programme in mainline and suburban rail over the period 1996-99. This programme will cost £73.3 million and the European Commission has allocated £62.3 million in grant aid at a rate of 85 per cent from the EU Cohesion Fund.
Of the £73.3 million package, £12.5 million was allocated to upgrading track on the Dublin-Sligo line. The work involves the replacement of life expired jointed track on timber sleepers with continuous welded rail on concrete sleepers. It is being undertaken on the Dublin-Mullingar section of the route. Up to the beginning of September 1997 spending on this project amounted to approximately £3.5 million.
A further £14 million was allocated to the replacement of an outdated mechanical signalling system on four routes, including Sligo, with a new, modern, cost-effective and centralised control system. The work on the Sligo line will be undertaken on the Maynooth-Sligo section of the route. The total package of investment is scheduled for completion by the end of 1999.
I have no function in relation to the details of railway investment other than the EU-funded programme. The non co-financed programme, and its implementation, is a matter solely for CIE and Iarnród Éireann.

But the Transport minister back then was from Westmeath and the current minister could not care less about anything west of Lucan....and only as far as Lucan when pushed very hard.

Once the NW Midlands papers are 'leaked' a story from the IE Bunker in Dublin along the lines of Westport OR Sligo but not both....then you know that Sligo will lose because 'sure isn't it right beside Ballina anyway'

Jamie2k9

The waterford line should be getting its quickest ever journey time of 1:50 hours.

Take that will be the one that serves Carlow, Athy only? and IE are padding the timetable as it can be done in 1h45 if not 1h40, currently it stops in Carlow for 5 extra mins, speed restrictions from Curragh-Celbridge behind the 08.30 service from Newbridge which always departs late because of Cork train delay, and has to wait for 09.00 to Cork to depart before it can arrive in Heuston at 09.05 everyday and with no crawling on Saturdays it almost 15 mins ahead of schedule into Heuston but still has to stop to allow 09.00 to Cork to depart.

Any idea if we will get an evening service like it?

Defiler Of The Coffin

dowlingm wrote: »

The Longford Leader certainly thinks something is up

The image in that article is rubbish!

kieran4003

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Take that will be the one that serves Carlow, Athy only? and IE are padding the timetable as it can be done in 1h45 if not 1h40, currently it stops in Carlow for 5 extra mins, speed restrictions from Curragh-Celbridge behind the 08.30 service from Newbridge which always departs late because of Cork train delay, and has to wait for 09.00 to Cork to depart before it can arrive in Heuston at 09.05 everyday and with no crawling on Saturdays it almost 15 mins ahead of schedule into Heuston but still has to stop to allow 09.00 to Cork to depart.

Any idea if we will get an evening service like it?



Is that to try and get rid of the 25mph for Waterford and up the Cork from 90 to 100?

Yes I am talking about the 07:10 express. I didnt know it was making the time so well, that is quite interesting. Out of interest, what are loads likeon this service?

I dont know if there will be an evening express, but I imagine journey times in general will be improved.

Afaik, I am talking about Charleville in Cork, you are thinking of Cherryville in Kildare. Cherryvlle actually had its track layout renewed last year, the turnout for the Waterford line was a higher speed turnout, so I dont know why the 25mph limit remains in force for Waterford.

dowlingm

Not even three years since the Shannon Bridge was replaced for 5.5mill:
http://www.sligochampion.ie/lifestyle/trains-travelling-across-shannon-bridge-at-10mph-a-thing-of-the-past-1934146.html

Our man in Havana

I have heard of the line west of Maynooth being described as a siding many times.

Jamie2k9

Yes I am talking about the 07:10 express. I didn't know it was making the time so well, that is quite interesting. Out of interest, what are loads likeon this service?

I don't know if there will be an evening express, but I imagine journey times in general will be improved.

Afaik, I am talking about Charleville in Cork, you are thinking of Cherryville in Kildare. Cherryvlle actually had its track layout renewed last year, the turnout for the Waterford line was a higher speed turnout, so I don't know why the 25mph limit remains in force for Waterford.

Realized my mistake after I posted but Wifi on the train stopped so couldn't change it.

Loads on the 07.10 can vary a lot but I would say around 150 per day, which isn't bad. Service is operated by a 6 car set everyday except Monday which is over capacity. Would be great if one 3 car set was used for a service to Dublin at 09.00 as thats the only real gap in the timetable currently but lets hope that the current 8 daily services are maintained and not chopped.

It is possible to get all services down to 2h15m. Currently all services run well within schedules and this is reflected by Waterford services having the best OTP for an Intercity route and I think the second highest OTP across the network.

LXFlyer

All that's happening is the annual timetable review. Presumably the proposed timetables will appear like last year on the website for consultation in due course.

Frankly, I've made this point before, speculating about trains being cancelled only makes people unnecessarily worried - rumours from drivers tend to be precisely that - rumours, which often tend to be far removed from reality as frankly they do not do the scheduling.

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Sligo line west of Maynooth is a dead duck and has been on IE's hit list for years.

so has most of the rail network, but yeah specially dublin sligo and dublin rosslare, thankfully they haven't managed to shut and lift them yet but i suppose its only a matter of time.
maybe they will build that railway from cork to derry after all so they can close them. it is from cork to derry isn't it? or is it cork to sligo? anyone?

Judgement Day wrote: »

there will be fewer marchers next time.

i would say none at all, people these days just sit and take whats thrown at them, i'd say the dublin sligo line won't close until they manage to finally shut and lift the rosslare dublin line

lillyjoe

Am I the only one here that is interested in trains going westwards? Sligo is a big town and alot of people commute to it for work or college from the midlands. What about the early morning service to Sligo - it's a joke. The first train arrives in Sligo at 10.10am which is of no use if you are working in Sligo. If the early morning service arrived around 9 it might be some use to people commuting to Sligo for work or college from Longford, Carrick, or Boyle. No one needs a service that only arrives at 10.10am!!

Mycroft H

Problem is that it's a single track beyond Maynooth all the way to Sligo. There is passing loops on the line but there is a lot of rail traffic heading eastbound in the mornings. Not sure how feasible a service westbound is. Anyone else know?

lillyjoe

Surely if they started a train from Mullingar or Longford early in the morning heading to Sligo it could return to Dublin from Sligo mid morning to Dublin.

I'm not sure of the siding situation in the westward stations but there must be room to pass in these stations if the train was properly timed there should be no problem

Jamie2k9

Am I the only one here that is interested in trains going westwards? Sligo is a big town and alot of people commute to it for work or college from the midlands. What about the early morning service to Sligo - it's a joke. The first train arrives in Sligo at 10.10am which is of no use if you are working in Sligo. If the early morning service arrived around 9 it might be some use to people commuting to Sligo for work or college from Longford, Carrick, or Boyle. No one needs a service that only arrives at 10.10am!!

Its the same around the network with most arrivals from Dublin around 10.

Surely if they started a train from Mullingar or Longford early in the morning heading to Sligo it could return to Dublin from Sligo mid morning to Dublin.

Are they drivers based in either of those stations, Irish Rail will concentrate on demand which is to Dublin in mornings and not Sligo as is across the country and I could think of larger towns where this would happen first. Why is there need for another mid morning service from Sligo, is 09.05, 11.05 and 13.05 not enough as two of the services are 3 car sets which says a lot about demand...

Our man in Havana

They were getting 2:20 back in 1995.

dowlingm

kieran4003 wrote: »

In relation to the mainline, The Chief Civil Engineer is to give approval to trial 100 mph running on 90 mph sections

Is this likely to apply to all services or just 22000s on the basis of lower track forces? Is there some other basis for this change?

foggy_lad

lillyjoe wrote: »

Am I the only one here that is interested in trains going westwards? Sligo is a big town and alot of people commute to it for work or college from the midlands. What about the early morning service to Sligo - it's a joke. The first train arrives in Sligo at 10.10am which is of no use if you are working in Sligo. If the early morning service arrived around 9 it might be some use to people commuting to Sligo for work or college from Longford, Carrick, or Boyle. No one needs a service that only arrives at 10.10am!!

Don't you know services radiate out from Dublin to serve the rest of the country and there can be no change to this time honoured way of operating.

kieran4003 wrote: »

New timetable in January. Cuts to quiet off peak services. Significant Accelerations on Intercity services. Better spacing and less trains going into Heuston will improve reliability.

In relation to the mainline, The Chief Civil Engineer is to give approval to trial 100 mph running on 90 mph sections and others for more late night speed trials which will be done over the coming weeks. This will help establish new timings for the draft timetables to be published in October. The first trial in May using all existing speeds and limits went from Dublin - Cork in 2:14.

so the Waterford branch line will remain basically unchanged because trains will always be held at stations or stopped on the line to allow mainline trains to go ahead of them.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its the same around the network with most arrivals from Dublin around 10.

well thats not good enough for a supposibly 21st century railway.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Irish Rail will concentrate on demand

i know they will, craming everyone into 4 car cattle trains on the dart is realy concentrating on demand.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Irish Rail will concentrate on demand which is to Dublin in mornings and not Sligo as is across the country

meh, people do work in places other then dublin, remember IE are a semi-state not a private company as they like to think. have they ever trialed and heavily promoted early services? early morning service to wexford was handy until it got moved back due to (little demand) funny how their was a lot using it when i was on it or did they get word i was traveling? but anyway.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why is there need for another mid morning service from Sligo, is 09.05, 11.05 and 13.05 not enough as two of the services are 3 car sets which says a lot about demand...

no its not. i suppose theirs a need for another earlier one as people would like to get to dublin before 9 believe it or not, or god forbid even sligo. i suppose those who might want to get to dublin from sligo or even to sligo before 9 should just get the bus? and you wonder why passengers are leaving irish rail. oh well.

dowlingm

foggy_lad wrote: »

so the Waterford branch line will remain basically unchanged because trains will always be held at stations or stopped on the line to allow mainline trains to go ahead of them.

Got some cash lying around for a flying junction at Cherryville FL? Otherwise what would you have them do?

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

Got some cash lying around for a flying junction at Cherryville FL? Otherwise what would you have them do?

Whichever train gets to the junction first proceeds without the Waterford trains sitting on the track after crossing onto the mainline waiting to be overtaken or passed by the Cork train.

dowlingm

The Waterford DMUs are in a much better position to stop and start than a Mark 4+loco or an 071+containers between Ballina and North Wall.

kc56

foggy_lad wrote: »

Whichever train gets to the junction first proceeds without the Waterford trains sitting on the track after crossing onto the mainline waiting to be overtaken or passed by the Cork train.

Cork trains have top priority!

dowlingm

kc56 wrote: »

Cork trains have top priority!

After all when the day comes when the Peoples' Republic is recognised by the UN it'll be an international service

RonanM123

Cork trains have top priority!

That may be but it dosn't justify IE timetabling Athy-Kildare to tak 26-30 minutes for a 16 minute journey just to allow the Cork train to operate to schedule.

I would also be suprised if Cork see's no cuts in Jan as half of the services are always empty with barly any passengers. Could see the 08.00 and mabye the 10.00 getting chopped and two return services as well.

If the 05.05 from Limerick to Dublin is not scrapped there will anger amoung many people as if IE are able to justify to operate the Limerick branch service which takes 4-5 passengers per day but they cut services that take lets say 50-60 mid afternoon.

dowlingm

The problem with the half-empty services is that the people on them might be returning on full ones, and those trips may not be readily transferable to one hour earlier or later. I'm more concerned about the trips that run 90pc empty and run for political reasons. Meanwhile the Enterprise services are busy but a different kind of politics prevents IE from improving the frequency of that service with equipment freed up on cut back routes (although any such improvement would likely be disrupted by clowns causing security alerts on the first day)

end of the road

i'd say the alan kelly HST will go along with the line itself, he should have got IE to operate a shuttle/commuter service along the line connecting into the early morning cork train or if not that a service which would get people to limerick from stations along the branch before 8 or 9. but no he wanted his bullit train and he got it. is calling a train a HST then a bullit train all right? probably not but anyway

dowlingm

end of the road wrote: »

i'd say the alan kelly HST will go along with the line itself, he should have got IE to operate a shuttle/commuter service along the line connecting into the early morning cork train

Bingo - or at least allow the Cork train to skip the Ballybrophy stop and gain 2-3 minutes, with the Nenagh TGV picking up whatever few normally board that service. I do wonder though whether IE went along with it because it gave them an additional commuter service without it originating from Laois Depot or Heuston - hell of a price to pay just to not have one more 22 to squeeze out though.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Bingo - or at least allow the Cork train to skip the Ballybrophy stop and gain 2-3 minutes, with the Nenagh TGV picking up whatever few normally board that service.

yeah it would be a good idea for that to happen, all though to be honest i'd say the shuttle service to the cork train would be better because the cork train would get into dublin faster and earlier then the old TGV.

dowlingm wrote: »

hell of a price to pay just to not have one more 22 to squeeze out though.

absolutely agree.

dowlingm wrote: »

I do wonder though whether IE went along with it because it gave them an additional commuter service without it originating from Laois Depot or Heuston

possibly thats the case or maybe they felt pressured in to doing it? i don't want to see this line close but i know now at this stage this will be the outcome, a shame realy as their was probably the potential for a commuter market from the stations along the branch to limerick and possibly a small market to dublin via connecting to the cork train had the line been invested in fully and brought up to a good speed, i know track has been relayed but still the journey time and speed is ridiculous, i'm not saying it could be compared to the dart, but surely it might have got more users then the WRC for example and been more worth while investing in? (yes i agree their are more worth while lines again then limerick ballybrophy before anyone starts)

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

The Waterford DMUs are in a much better position to stop and start than a Mark 4+loco or an 071+containers between Ballina and North Wall.

And that makes it ok to delay passengers to/from waterford?

dowlingm

foggy - I'm just saying that if it makes more sense operationally then parity of esteem should take a backseat. Isn't the same true of Galway services at Portarlington?

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

foggy - I'm just saying that if it makes more sense operationally then parity of esteem should take a backseat. Isn't the same true of Galway services at Portarlington?

But trying to increase speeds on the cork route now is like flogging a dead ass because of the competition from bus operators who offer both stopping and express services. The cork trains should not get priority anymore.

dowlingm

A short sighted view. The speed increases due to better track and removal of speed restrictions will benefit services to Galway, Limerick and Tralee (in increasing order of benefit). These services might have to make an extra stop or two to make up for some Cork trains going limited stop but if IE doesn't respond to the coach services and maintain their effort then they might as well pull up the rails south of Portlaoise right now. Good luck getting enough Aircoaches, X8s and Gobuses heading up the M8 next year in July, August and hopefully September Sundays though - look what a small county like Kilkenny did to the Aircoach.

bk

dowlingm wrote: »

Good luck getting enough Aircoaches, X8s and Gobuses heading up the M8 next year in July, August and hopefully September Sundays though - look what a small county like Kilkenny did to the Aircoach.

On the other hand look at how GoBus and CityLink responded to the Galway races, putting on lots of extra buses and meeting the much greater demand.

Don't judge it by Aircoach, it is a relatively new service and Aircoach are new to intercity travel. I believe they will improve and in time they will be able to handle such peak demand.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

Aircoach are new to intercity travel.

What? The Belfast route launched eight years ago. They are hardly neophytes.

bk

dowlingm wrote: »

What? The Belfast route launched eight years ago. They are hardly neophytes.

1) They only operated this route for a relatively short time.
2) It was an already highly serviced route, with a lot of coaches operating it. There was plenty of capacity and rarely any need for extra services.

Cork is a whole new beast for them. They are now the primary operator on this route. They have never before operated a route that is so busy, with so many potential customers and until now so underserved. It is a totally different ball game.

devnull

dowlingm wrote: »

What? The Belfast route launched eight years ago. They are hardly neophytes.

The Belfast route was a Dublin Airport route, it never served the city centre until it was relaunched this year.

dowlingm

I'm sorry devnull, bk but this is ridiculous nitpicking. Aircoach has been doing Cork-Dublin at least as long, it's just that the Aircoach website doesn't show it. The company itself was formed in 1999. What is with this reflexive excusing of Aircoach? They are a clearly experienced company backed by a huge parent since the takeover 9 years ago.

The Idyll Race

devnull wrote: »

The Belfast route was a Dublin Airport route, it never served the city centre until it was relaunched this year.

So they were strangers to the "shmoke"? Oh my aching sides.