japanese hard?

junior100

i was wonderin is it hard to learn for the leaving cert? and is it hard to get a B2 or B1 in honours japanese
thanks in advance

Aard

Yes, it's difficult. There was a time when Japanese was seen as an easy A, but they've changed the syllabus since then. Imo there's no point going out of your way to learn it unless you have a passion for it. For the same time and effort, you could get an equally good mark in French or German, which most schools offer.

junior100

de only problem dere is dat i dnt hav a language nd want to keep my options open, is it still hard to get a B in it?

Atavan-Halen

Is your school offering Japanese as a language? If you want to do it and have a passion for the language then by all means go for it. If it's not offered in your school as a language then unless like mentioned above you have a genuine interest, best pick another language. I'd advise not picking LC subjects based on whether they're easy or a "guaranteed A". Go for subjects you like and have an interest is as you'll most likely do better in them.

Mod note: Please refrain from using txt speak as it can be difficult and annoying to read.

Aard

Yes. Unless you have a genuine interest in Japanese, don't bother taking the course just because you can. There's a lot to learn and it can get very tedious. Loads of people drop out by Christmas because they're just not into it.

junior100

no my school does not offer japanese but if u put work into it could you get a B in a honours paper like has it gone dat hard?

jaydoxx

I did it 2 years ago, and I have to say if you have to pick up a language for the LC, make it japanese. Yes, it will take some work but if you have any aptitude for languages at all, it's the easiest grade you can get in a language subject imo.

FruitLover

junior100 wrote: »

de only problem dere is dat i dnt hav a language nd want to keep my options open, is it still hard to get a B in it?

Maybe you should work on your English before trying to tackle another language. If you can't even spell three-letter English words correctly, I expect you'll have a serious problem with kanji.

Andy!!

junior100 wrote: »

de only problem dere is dat i dnt hav a language nd want to keep my options open, is it still hard to get a B in it?

Are you posting this from a phone? I certainly hope so. Otherwise you are going to find Japanese VERY difficult if you still have issues with your native language.

jaydoxx

Ah leave it out. For all you know the person could have dyslexia, and thats no reason not to learn a foreign language:P

Just Like Heaven

Andy!! wrote: »

Are you posting this from a phone? I certainly hope so. Otherwise you are going to find Japanese VERY difficult if you still have issues with your native language.

Great post.

Atavan-Halen

OP Has been warned about using txt spk. Leave it at that please.

syntax1

Never mind what people are saying that you'll have a hard time with Japanese simply because you don't conform to artificial spelling rules.

If you are interested enough you'll do fine.

What makes you interested in Japanese? I have this book. It's excellent. Also this.

just-joe

What is artificial about spelling rules?

In my humble opinion I think someone who doesn't pay attention or care about the small bits of language wouldn't be successful at learning Japanese.

But OP if you think you are interested in the language and Japanese culture, then go for it! It is a really interesting language and excellent culture, and learning any language is a worthy pursuit. So yeah, do it!

syntax1

just-joe wrote: »

What is artificial about spelling rules?

In my humble opinion I think someone who doesn't pay attention or care about the small bits of language wouldn't be successful at learning Japanese.

What bearing does someone's care to write English in a way that other people wish have on their ability to learn to speak Japanese?

Spelling rules are artificial because everything to do with writing a language down is artificial. Why is any given thing one way and not the other?

Take for example the fact that there are some 7,000 languages in the world and most of them don't have a writing system. Speech takes primacy over writing. Acquiring speech as young children is the natural course of events for the vast majority of people. Learning to read and writing takes place in schools and is not, therefore, a natural process. It has to be taught.

Then taking specific language, standard English and French orthography is much less transparent than that of Estonian and Finnish. Why should it be this way?

Giruilla

I'd kind of have to agree that getting bogged down on the small bits of a language isn't going to dictate if you are successful at learning a language or not. Sure you can string together horrendous sentences in Japanese leaving out NI/WO/HA/DE/NO and still be perfectly understand if your vocab is right!

From my experience the only important thing to learning a language is genuinely wanting to learn it.

Aard

That said, if you lack attention to detail in writing English, chances are you'll have a hard time with kanji!

just-joe

syntax1 wrote: »

What bearing does someone's care to write English in a way that other people wish have on their ability to learn to speak Japanese?

Spelling rules are artificial because everything to do with writing a language down is artificial. Why is any given thing one way and not the other?

Well in that case, wouldn't everything about language be artificial? When speaking you can get away with more mistakes, but there are still rules about how you are meant to speak a language. I think that someone who doesn't care about writing English properly doesn't care about the small particulars, which in my experience is quite important for learning a language, especially when in a classroom. Fair enough if you are learning to speak in a native environment you can forget about strict rules and pick it up as you go along, but if you are learning a language in a classroom you need to care about the small things, the rules, etc.

syntax1 wrote: »

Take for example the fact that there are some 7,000 languages in the world and most of them don't have a writing system. Speech takes primacy over writing. Acquiring speech as young children is the natural course of events for the vast majority of people. Learning to read and writing takes place in schools and is not, therefore, a natural process. It has to be taught.

There might be 7000 languages but with respect whether or not most of them have a writing system doesn't matter as we're talking about two languages that do have one, and we're talking about learning one of them in school. And we all know when you are in school you write a lot, especially when you are going to be doing tests. I don't know much about the japanese leaving cert exam but I imagine there is writing and a whole lot of reading.

syntax1 wrote: »

Then taking specific language, standard English and French orthography is much less transparent than that of Estonian and Finnish. Why should it be this way?

I read what orthography is on wikipedia but I'm still a bit lost as to what your question means, sorry!

just-joe

Giruilla wrote: »

I'd kind of have to agree that getting bogged down on the small bits of a language isn't going to dictate if you are successful at learning a language or not. Sure you can string together horrendous sentences in Japanese leaving out NI/WO/HA/DE/NO and still be perfectly understand if your vocab is right!

From my experience the only important thing to learning a language is genuinely wanting to learn it.

I only slightly disagree in that yes wanting to learn is probably the most important thing and getting bogged down about the small bits isn't good, but you do have to care about the details, right?

You can leave out the particles in Japanese but only when speaking really, when you're writing it's just as strict as any other language?

syntax1

just-joe wrote: »

I read what orthography is on wikipedia but I'm still a bit lost as to what your question means, sorry!

I was just saying that Estonian and Finnish are written in such a way that learning to read those languages is easier than learning to read English and French. The correspondence between the orthography and the sounds of the language is more close.

It was a rhetorical question.

Jd1995

Hi guys, I'm going into fifth year this year and I was hoping to learn Japanese but Ii can't find the books anywhere. Does anyone know where to get them or any other good books to learn from?

syntax1

Jd1995 wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm going into fifth year this year and I was hoping to learn Japanese but Ii can't find the books anywhere. Does anyone know where to get them or any other good books to learn from?

As to what is the best, I don't know. As for the place from where to get books:

Torrents. Modern Languages bookshop, Dublin by Pearse St. station. Amazon.

Just Like Heaven

Jd1995 wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm going into fifth year this year and I was hoping to learn Japanese but Ii can't find the books anywhere. Does anyone know where to get them or any other good books to learn from?

You'll struggle to get hold of a copy of the LC textbook, Nihongo Kantan, as the publisher is gone I think. I used the Japanese for Busy People series, which doesn't take you very far, but certainly far enough for the leaving cert if you have a good of knowledge of the three books. I'm pretty sure they were about €10 each. Other than that download the syllabus and get hold of the Michel Thomas and Pimsleur courses to start maybe. Get them online or in a library or something, they're probably even up on youtube.

syntax1 wrote: »

As to what is the best, I don't know. As for the place from where to get books:

Torrents. Modern Languages bookshop, Dublin by Pearse St. station. Amazon.

I think modern languages closed down a couple of years ago, unless I'm mixing it up with another shop. International books is still open though, I think.

FWVT

What sort of stuff is on the LC syllabus? Any kanji or kana or is it purely romaji?

Jd1995

Yeah the only places i found on the internet anyway for Nihongo Kantan were authentik.ie and Modern Languages in Dublin but the website has gone into liquidation and I think the shop has aswell. Did you find that Japanese was hard at first? I'm very interested but I haven't tried to learn it before. Thanks for all the help i appreciate it

just-joe

exam paper archive
http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=en&sc=ep&ty=e

this year's leavng cert paper
http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2013/LC058ALP000EV.pdf

I think if you are around N4 or N3 level this would be no problem. There aren't any difficult kanji, the grammar and kanji questions are fairly simple, and there isn't a lot for the time you have. The writing would probably be difficult as you have to write with kanji, although I assume if you write difficult words then it's ok to write with hiragana.

Having said that, I don't know how easy/difficult it would be to get to that level as a leaving cert student. My idea is that if I had studied it the way I studied French back in school I woud scrape a pass. But if you are interested and motivated, and studied for two years, you could easily get an A1. I also didn't check what the aural and oral parts are like, but probably along the same lines, if you study hard you can do it!

In regards to what textbook to use, I have no idea what the prescribed book is like, but it's probably not as good as Japanese for Busy People or Genki. I prefer Genki to Busy People, but either would be good.

If you studied those books, you would be well on the way to a solid leaving cert mark. Also, practicing for the JLPT would be good preparation as the particle, kanji reading and meaning questions are very similar. First obviously prep for N5, then N4 etc... the gokaku dekiru books are very good as they are similar to the tests. If you could do the jlpt along the way, then you'd have a good idea how your study is good.

and now that we're onto it, obviously practicing speaking is vital so if possible find a speech partner and practice once a week or two weeks.. is there a language exchange that leaving cert students could go to? and when you don't have someone to speak to, listen to the textbook CDs, watch youtube videos and mimic whatever is happening, even if you can't understand it all.

Just Like Heaven

FWVT wrote: »

What sort of stuff is on the LC syllabus? Any kanji or kana or is it purely romaji?

About 150 kanji, they're all printed in the syllabus, then all kana. There's no romaji.

Jd1995 wrote: »

Yeah the only places i found on the internet anyway for Nihongo Kantan were authentik.ie and Modern Languages in Dublin but the website has gone into liquidation and I think the shop has aswell. Did you find that Japanese was hard at first? I'm very interested but I haven't tried to learn it before. Thanks for all the help i appreciate it

I found it fine, as have the majority of students I've spoken to. I wouldn't worry about not having the book for the language as such, because it's not difficult and there's a lot of past papers to work through at this stage. But there's a section on culture at the end of each chapter, and there is a culture question on the paper (in English) not a lot going for it, but easy marks so it's worth looking into. If you can get hold of the book, great, if not, then study the past papers even harder but it's not that big a deal. From what I've heard lots of teachers don't like the book.

The oral is important, it would be best to start preparing early, try to skype people and engage in conversation exchanges etc. But honestly, I don't think it's the end of the world if you don't because the oral is so structured and there really isn't much fluid and loose conversation. 5 minutes talking about a randomly selected topic, 5 minutes talking about a photo and 5 minutes conversation at the start. In the 5 minutes on the random topic you'll be asked to contrast the differences with Ireland and Japanese culture (for example, I got the school systems or something). Both the topics and photos are uploaded online a few weeks/months before the oral exam (there'll be 4 photos and then 9 topics) so you have a few weeks to prepare them, and then you'll get one of each at random. So as you can see it's very structured and a lot less daunting than the 15 minute French oral. I'm definitely not saying don't try and practice with people who can speak Japanese, but if you do a lot of listening and feel comfortable talking about your hobbies, family, plans for college, subjects (all the normal oral exam stuff), you'll do okay.

For the honours paper it's 55% paper, 20% listening and 25% oral. *I think.

LaughingOwl

There are Saturday Classes on in Dublin and Cork and after school classes in Sligo, they are free and follow the LC course. Here's the link: http://languagesinitiative.ie/languages-japanese . If you live in those places it might be worth giving them a ring.

Jd1995

Okay, i feel a lot more informed in starting now, ill definitely look into everything ye are saying, thanks so much